Through Sunday, 1 Dec.: Time Regained

[Kalliope]

Marcelita wrote: "
It's the color of the hat and dress, perfectly complimenting each other, that met with the Baron's approval...."

Lovely paintings, and beautiful pearl necklace, Marcelita -- still white, not black.

[Kalliope]

Phillida wrote: "On p. 98 (ML) the narrator writes of Saint-Loup's craving to see Morel, despite Morel's bad behavior to him. "I thought it kinder to Gilberte not to inform Robert that to find Morel he had only to..."

I am one of the defenders of the Narrator, I don't have a bad impression of him... His behavior is not always exemplary, but whose is?

[Elizabeth]

Kalliope: re Mme. Verdurin's "kindness" (sorry, cant help the quotation marks); remember: it was M. Verdurin who suggested saving Saniette. I prefer to remember her slurping up her morning coffee, dipping the contraband croissant in it...I think a mistake of Celeste's glueing the paperoles is possibly true. Lord knows it's the only decent things she's done so far. And that bit about the "word" they used, that the narrator did not understand. Like poor M. Nissim Bernard saying pathetically (when M. Bloch Sr is scolding him), "Not when the meschores are in the room." Meschores being Hebrew (or possibly Yiddish) for "servants." It implies that the Verdurins have more of a Past than we're ever told.

[Kalliope]

Elizabeth wrote: "Kalliope: re Mme. Verdurin's "kindness" (sorry, cant help the quotation marks); remember: it was M. Verdurin who suggested saving Saniette. I prefer to remember her slurping up her morning coffee,..."

Very true, but having such a strong character herself she could have stopped her husband's idea. It really involved a fair amount of money. But I am not trying to redeem her. It is just that I do not always see her as too monochromatic a character. This makes me think that several of the personalities do have a bit of a guignol aspect to them at times (next week Charlus), but generally are rather complex. And that is how I see Mme Verdurin.

Mmm. I did not catch on the "meschores" reference.. next time I read this (I am more and more willing to read this work again).. I should pay attention to that. Thank you Elizabeth.

[Kalliope]

When Charlus begins to evoque Pompei he mentions "l'Ambrine" that women have invented for their skin... I had never heard of it...

Here is something...

Written by Henri de Rothschild, Le Traitement des brûlures para la méthode cirque (pansement à l'amarine)

http://books.google.es/books/about/Le...

It was supposed to be a mix between paraffine and résine.

[Kalliope]

I found Charlus' comparison of Pompeii with the German lava and the kind of immobilization it would do to their contemporaries for later history and school books... a very strong and powerful image... and then the reference to the inscription of "Sodoma, Gomora" that was supposedly found in Pompei.

He alludes to the frivolity of their period.. the one we call "La Belle Époque".

Historical and Biblical references with strong moral undertones.

I was going to post some photos of the bodies found in Pompei, but decided not to.

[Kalliope]

In past volumes and comments we notices that sometimes the word "littérature" as in "faire de la littérature" had negative connotations .. Now Charlus continues this idea associating it with "dilettantism".

Charlus talking:

... tandis qu'ils (les Allemands) se préparaient virilement, nous nous abîmés dans le dilettantisme. Ce mot signifiait probablement pour M. de Charlus quelque chose d'analogue à la littérature..... "Oui, nous nous abîmes dans le dilettantisme, nous tous, vous aussi,... nous avons été trop dilettantes.pp. 195-196.

To this the Narrator does not thing he can reproach himself to have been a diletante (I thought he would).

[Kalliope]

The Narrator becoming, again, a voyeur...

Upon his arrival at the hotel (after he separates from Charlus and forgets that he was supposedly going to visit the Verdurins), he enters and goes up the staircase (supposedly he went in to get something to drink) and partly hides in the dark (l'escalier où je restais à l'ombre.. Je pus apercevoir sans être vu dans l'obscurité..).

How much are these voyeur scenes part of his character and how much are they narrative techniques?

[Kalliope]

This is the first mention of Saint-Loup having been involved, unjustly, in an affair of spies.

Je me rappelai involontairement que Saint-Loup avait été injustement mêlé à une affaire d'espionage parce qu'on avait trouvé son nom dans les lettres saisis sur un officier allemand. p. 198.

Strange how the Narrator sometimes pulls out information out of his own world and gives thereby a twist to the plot or to the characterizations.

[Fionnuala]

Phillida wrote: "A good question. As I think, it seems to me that voyeurism must be part of his character. Behavior is surely a large part of character. And would a good writer distort a character in order to propel narrative? I don't think so. ."

I agree with Kalliope that it is a narrative strategy, and that, from serving purposes repeatedly - and often the same purposes - the role of voyeur has become an an aspect of the character we call the Narrator.
Similarly, Saint -Loup, when needed can be called in to serve new roles.
But always, there's a pattern that their behaviour fits into and that pattern is not character driven but definitely narrative driven. I see these characters and their actions helping Proust complete the endless circle of this giant novel.

[Fionnuala]

Phillida wrote: "So character, behavior, and narrative become inseparable. Whether any one is prior to the others could possibly be answered only by study of Proust's notes.."

Or his letters. But it seems to me that the themes of the narrative and its shape are what is most important, and the characters are puppets sent on stage to move things forward. Take Odette for an example.

[Elizabeth]

Kalliope, the "meschores" (sp doubtful) occurs in one of the Balbec visits. The Narrator is having dinner with Bloch & his family. This is when we are introduced to M. Nissim Bernard. And told that M. Bloch sr treats him contemptuously despite (or perhaps because) he is Mme Bloch's uncle, is wealthy, has rented the villa where they are staying, and Bloch sr is his heir. He is muttering this, so embarrassed, at Bloch Sr "making a scene in front of the servants" by (in essence) telling him to Shut Up.

[Kalliope]

Fionnuala wrote: "
Or his letters. But ..."

I see the scene (literally so) that begins at the end of this weeks read as very theatrical in the way it is set up. This will seem more clear next week and I will expand on this there... Above I referred to Charlus as sometimes appearing a Guignol character.

But the Narrator on the staircase listening the scene next to him, while we see both... it is just like on the stage...

[Kalliope]

This Last Volume was partly composed before the war, but was lengthened with additions which are of a clear later date.

The GF notes keep making reference to the "paperolles" which begin and which finish. It just seems we are reading paperolle after paperolle.

A real patchwork of texts...

[Kalliope]

Elizabeth wrote: "Kalliope, the "meschores" (sp doubtful) occurs in one of the Balbec visits. The Narrator is having dinner with Bloch & his family. This is when we are introduced to M. Nissim Bernard. And told tha..."

Thank you Elizabeth for this.. I don't know when I shall engage on a second reading of La recherche, but I am already looking forward to it.

[Fionnuala]

Phillida wrote: "In my previous readings of ISOLT I thought exactly as you describe--characters as puppets moving things forward. Swann and maybe Grandmother were the only ones I could feel as people. I astounded myself in this reading by coming to feel at least some of them as people, including the narrator. Saint-Loup still seems to be to me a puppet. Albertine is forever mysterious to me. .."

Oh, yes, Philida! Swann and the grandmother, my favourite characters!
I love that you have had a different experience with the characters, second time round. And I'm sort of aware that I've failed to fully appreciate, fully believe in, our Narrator. I am dying to reread the beginning after reaching the end to see what magic the new super bright lantern of my own growing understanding will reveal..

[Jocelyne]

@Marcelita, great hats!

I also always had the sense that the narrator was rather sensitive and compassionate.
It would be interesting to see how our impressions change upon a second reading, especially while reading the first volume again.

The Pompeii metaphor was striking; in fact I find this whole section rather compelling. What a fine observation on the part of the narrator in pointing out that Charlus felt a sense of virility from the brutal treatment he was requesting. And I loved the phrasing, " ..toute l'enluminure intérieure, invisible de nous tous, ....de tortures féodales, qui décorait son imagination moyenâgeuse."

[ReemK10 (Paper Pills)]

This section was rather difficult for me to read as it dragged on, but I got through it and found myself very intrigued by the significance of M de Charlus being so mad with jealousy that he wanted to kill Morel. Funny that Morel avoided him because he was deathly afraid of him even though we all know M. de Charlus to be so kind and loving to him and Morel not to be the type to frighten easily. Very remniscent of the narrator and Albertine.
I think for this read we have read focusing a lot on the art, music, biographical and historical content, on the characters, names and places.... I think now that we have that, we really do need to do a second read focusing this time on the themes in the novel.

[Eugene]

As I said in message 18, this is some of best war reporting that I've read...

...it was from the shores of death, whither they would soon return, that they came to spend a few moments in our midst, incomprehensible to us, filling us with tenderness and terror and a feeling of mystery, like phantoms whom we summon from the dead, who appear to us for a second, whom we dare not question, and who could, in any case, only reply: "You cannot possibly imagine."

For it is extraordinary how, in the survivors of battle, which is what soldiers on leave are, or in living men hypnotised or dead men summoned by a medium, the only effect of contact with mystery is to increase, if that be possible, the insignificance of the things people say.

and Proust continues,

Such were my feelings when I greeted Robert, who still had a scar on his forehead, more august and more mysterious in my eyes than the imprint left upon the earth by a giant's foot. And I had not dared to put a single question to him... ML p. 97

This passage begins the new-found fellow feeling that the Narrator unconsciously evinces upon returning to Paris after an absence. Why I state that this is good war reporting is that the Narrator speaks (really he fears to speak) to Saint Loup, a combatant on leave, but Proust has the Narrator speak of the "insignificance of the things people say". This is real; the "insignificance" is so meaningful. They talk on of pilots, Valkyries, Napoleon, Hindenburg, etc. and the Narrator says,

"I was attempting in them (what he spoke about) to arrive at a
certain kind of truth. ... ML p. 101

But here, the Narrator has arrived at that "truth", the truth of writing of 'insignificant things' in a new found compassion for a person he knows, whom he truly feels for, if not to say, he loves.

Notice also that this passage is spoken (Proust has written it) from the POV of a simultaneous Narrator, one with the presence of the young and the wisdom of the old, reflective self. This is new.

And another thing to note, perhaps causing multiple readings of ISOLT, is that often causes are given after their effects. To make sense of Proust often you must put the cart before the horse to see how he wrote, to understand what he means.

[Kalliope]

Phillida wrote: "Fionnuala wrote:
"...it seems to me that the themes of the narrative and its shape are what is most important, and the characters are puppets sent on stage to move things forward. Take Odette for ..."

Yes a second reading would change one's opinions. Knowing what comes later would change the way a character first appears. The Narrator does seem to me like a person in this first reading even if he keeps himself as a Narrator.. but I am now so used to see through his eyes....!!

[Kalliope]

ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "This section was rather difficult for me to read as it dragged on, but I got through it and found myself very intrigued by the significance of M de Charlus being so mad with jealousy that he wanted..."

I am actually pursuing a theme (partly developed in the only two reviews I've written).. There had been a suggestion at the beginning of this Read to create also threads for themes, but it was decided not to, because it would split the discussion. Even the French read has functioned as an auxiliary thread. But I do think that themes have been brought up, but these do not receive a continuous treatment. We have also been identifying the running leitmotivs or when a former scene is referred to again...

[ReemK10 (Paper Pills)]

Kalliope wrote: "ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "This section was rather difficult for me to read as it dragged on, but I got through it and found myself very intrigued by the significance of M de Charlus being so ma..."

You're right we brought up a lot of themes but did not go into them very deeply. I know there were a lot of links that were introduced that we might like to pursue in more detail. I know I clicked on some pdf study the other day, and could not understand it but in my current state of mind that isn't very surprising. I am also very interested in the author's relationship with his mother which we did discuss some, and there was this link I shared ages ago about sado- masochism that no one really commented upon. I know there are many, many , many themes in this novel that we could delve deeply into that would enhance our understanding. I shared something the other day in the lounge, that I simply did not understand. I am curious to what's cooking in your head Kalliope!

[Marcus]

What surprised me about the revelation that Saint Loup had been accused of spying was not that fact but the narrator's bold assertion that he had "of course" been exonerated....in the light of the many revelations in the novel, including those about Saint Loup, it's a strange term to use. Almost as if now the surprise we are being given is a return to status quo...the shock of the normal? Or is this some irony aimed at the dimness of the military authorities, which therefore implies that Saint Loup actually was a spy?

[Marcelita]

May have been posted...but I was so crushed when I read this for the first time.

"Back in my bedroom again, I thought sadly that I had not once been back to revisit Combray church, which seemed to be waiting for me amidst green foliage in a violet-tinted window. 'Never mind,' I said to myself, 'that can wait for another year, if I don’t die in the meanwhile,' seeing no other possible obstacle but my own death and not envisaging that of the church which must, as I supposed, endure for centuries after my death as it had for centuries before my birth." MP (p 23-4)


"I only hoped that M. de Charlus would not mention Combray."
[...]
"'Combray was simply a small town like hundreds of others. But the ancestors of my family were portrayed as donors in some of the windows in the church, and in others our armorial bearings were depicted. We had our chapel there, and our tombs. And now this church has been destroyed by the French and the English because it served as an observation-post to the Germans'." MP (p 153-4)


The church...as an "observation-post."

[Kalliope]

Marcelita wrote: "May have been posted...but I was so crushed when I read this for the first time.

"Back in my bedroom again, I thought sadly that I had not once been back to revisit Combray church, which seemed to..."

It is such a lovely obsrvation-post.. This church already has a very special place in my mind as well.

[Ce Ce]

Patricia wrote: "this beauty is just TOO-MUCH

the real Tasonville

http://www.galorbe.com/Categorie/Des-..."

Lovely evocative photographs Patricia...Thank you. I could not help but contrast the tranquility with Gilberte's letter, the terrible effect of war and the changes wrought on the beloved countryside of the Narrator's youth...as well as the alteration in the picture of my mind so eloquently painted at the beginning of In Search of Lost Time. We are coming full circle.

[Ce Ce]

Jocelyne wrote: "Don't you think that Me Verdurin in one of the most monochromatic characters? All her traits are a variation on a darkly perverse theme. She is mean-spirited, cruel, malicious, scheming and vindictive. She seems to have no redeeming qualities. Her magnanimous gesture vis-à- vis Saniette when he became destitute is so out of character, such an aberration that one has to wonder if Céleste did not make a mistake in pasting her paperoles in."

And since Elstir is the only person mourning M. Verdurin's death, it is implied that Mme. Verdurin and her faithful haven't skipped a beat with her husband's passing.

[Ce Ce]

Rather than war reportage...I saw Proust's rendering as a life sized painting portraying the nuances, manipulations, blind spots and irrevocable loss.

I join Kalliope in wishing I knew more of WWI to better understand this reading. Only 100 years ago this coming year and already we have "forgotten" the horror and grief...not to mention the cause...and the dance of nations as the war unfolded. I know my great uncle died in WWI...but I don't recall his name or his story. Those who could tell me of the man he was have passed away...however they were large figures in my childhood and early adult life.

So many profound passages in this section. Eugene has already pointed out the mysterious phantom soldiers on leave, shortly to return to the unspeakable and unknowable.

The image of life continuing...the echo of Balbec in the soldiers looking from the outside through windows as Jocelyne posted.

Marcelita's reminder of Francoise' observation of the passing of soldiers through Combray. Men transformed by war..." they’re not men any more, they're lions."

References to Pompeii spoke to me of the potential for citizens to be caught in their own self involved behavior...frozen forever...in acts they hoped would remain hidden...secret. To be alive for posterity to be viewed and discussed 10 times 100 years in the future.

[Ce Ce]

Francoise: "Why, what in the world should we care for if it’s not our lives, the only gift the Lord never offers us a second time?" (Marcelita posted this from Swann's way, in reference to the parade of soldiers in Combray)

I had to smile...the Lord may never offer the gift of life a second time, but Proust certainly does! ;-)

[Ce Ce]

Fionnuala, I may not be ready to read all 7 volumes again immediately...but I will certainly join you in at least re-reading the "overture".

Perhaps I will get a copy of the Lydia Davis translation since I did not read that at the beginning.

[Fionnuala]

Yes, CeCe, Combray will be enough, I think! I will stop there.

[Ce Ce]

Fionnuala wrote: "Yes, CeCe, Combray will be enough, I think! I will stop there."

Good. I just checked out the public library and requested the Davis translation of Swann's Way...as well as the audio book. It will be the perfect way to wrap up the year.

[Kalliope]

Ce Ce wrote: "Rather than war reportage...I saw Proust's rendering as a life sized painting portraying the nuances, manipulations, blind spots and irrevocable loss.

I join Kalliope in wishing I knew more of WW..."

I love your comments, CeCe.. and may be is a good thing that you are somewhat behind in your reading.. Your comments conflate impressions.

[Ce Ce]

Kalliope wrote: "I love your comments, CeCe.. and may be is a good thing that you are somewhat behind in your reading.. Your comments conflate impressions."

Thank you Kalliope. I'm the ribbon on the full to overflowing box of weekly gifts.