Women and Men discussion

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When do you want to read this?

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message 1: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments We can work out when the best time is to read this.

Also, how long would you like to take on it?

I don't mind going very slow because it is by far the biggest tome on my shelf.


message 2: by Aloha (new)

Aloha | 497 comments Thank you, Stephen. I won't be able to read it in September, but I'm hoping to read it in October or November before I do DFW.


message 3: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments Sounds good. We can discuss more when the time rolls around. Invite everyone who's interested!


message 4: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Excellent, Stephen. Most totally excellent. I won't be re-reading with y'all, but I would be happy to offer myself as a very humble beginning McElroy scholar. I'll have W&M on my desk and feel very jealous while y'all are immersed in its densenesses.

I believe I read it over a period of 8 (10?) weeks and it was my main book at the time. Don't misjudge the page count. It is an exhausting work. You'll find yourself being worn out after a mere 30 pages, or needing to take a few days off. Or not. ; ) I would advise a scheduling akin to knocking off Ulysses or Finnegans Wake--don't try to squeeze it in before DFW and if being read along with the Proust group, give yourselves plenty of time. Especially for Stephen, who likes to understand every damn sentence, expect a lot of re-reading, either sentences, paragraphs or chapters.

I can send out a package of links in the next couple of days if you have a folder where you'd like to have them deposited.


message 5: by Aloha (new)

Aloha | 497 comments Thanks, Nathan.


message 6: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Aloha wrote: "Thanks, Nathan."

No, no. You don't understand. You guys will be the ones to determine whether or not I'm completely off my nut. I totally joined goodreads because of this novel, knowing that nowhere else in the world would one even be able to possibly conceive of others reading this [adjective] novel. You all return to me my faith in humankind. Or send me to the looney bin.


message 7: by Kris (last edited Sep 18, 2012 03:40PM) (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments I think October and November for a start sound doable to me. I'll be balancing it with Moby Dick and a few academic conferences that will cut into my reading time, and I have other reading commitments along the way even before Infinite Jest and Proust, so I am planning on a slow reading pace.


message 8: by Kris (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Aloha wrote: "Thanks, Nathan."

No, no. You don't understand. You guys will be the ones to determine whether or not I'm completely off my nut. I totally joined goodreads because of this novel, k..."


Nathan, I am not sure you know how much you bring to GR for me. Please know that any restoration of faith in humanity definitely goes both ways. It will be great to explore this novel with you.


message 9: by Aloha (new)

Aloha | 497 comments Really, Nathan, thank you for bringing this book to our attention. I can't wait to start. Remember, I love Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid, so I love a challenging read.

Group hug!!!


message 10: by Kris (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments {joining happily in group hug with some of my favorite GRers}

And I also have to thank you, Nathan, for bringing W&M to my attention in time for me to buy a copy before the prices skyrocketed. That was excellent timing.


message 11: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Aloha wrote: "I love Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid, so I love a challenging read.
"


Can I get credit for the 100 pages I did of GEB?

And really, I apologize for that price skyrocket. Jesus Christ!!! Shall we call it a commentary on the publishing industry?

{I don't hug, but I'll Prosit any damn day of the week!}


message 12: by Kris (last edited Sep 18, 2012 04:19PM) (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments {That's even better - group Prosit - slàinte!}


message 13: by Kris (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments Nathan, you will also be happy to know that none of us hold you responsible for the inscrutable decisions of the publishing industry.


message 14: by Aloha (new)

Aloha | 497 comments Any page read of GEB is credit, and 100 pages is a terrific effort. Cheers!

Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Aloha wrote: "I love Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid, so I love a challenging read.
"

Can I get credit for the 100 pages I did of GEB?

And really, I apologize for that price skyrocke..."



message 15: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments Yeah Nathan, we all owe you a big thanks for bringing this to our attention. I mean from what I've read and your review of it, it sounds phenomenal. I can't wait to get started. Plus now I get to out-snob all my peers. What... you mean you haven't heard of Joseph McElroy. Pfft..

But then again the majority of the english majors here complain when they find a word they don't know in a story. It makes me lose faith in humanity.


message 16: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments I'll also be making sure to read every word scrupulously. Not a page left unanalyzed!


message 17: by Kris (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments You may want to set up some pivot tables to keep track, Stephen. :)


message 18: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Stephen M wrote: "you mean you haven't heard of Joseph McElroy. Pfft.."

Even better than The Wake (not having read) for those purposes!

But then again the majority of the english majors here complain when they find a word they don't know in a story.

Now that is when one says "too much information!"

Not a page left unanalyzed!

This novel may not want that. "I'm just sayin'."


message 19: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments I'll graph everything out according to theme, image and symbol which will be arranged along the X axis, given that Y is the page number by which said theme, image or symbol is evoked/instantiated/described. With the information we can display graphically the frequency with which each theme, image or symbol occurs throughout the the narrative. I will observe correlations between each single criterion compared to the plot's overall arc.

Who says you can't quantify literature?


message 20: by Kris (new)


message 21: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments Holy crap. That guy had some time on his hands.


message 22: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Stephen M wrote: "I'll graph everything out according to theme, image and symbol which will be arranged along the X axis, given that Y is the page number by which said theme, image or symbol is evoked/instantiated/d..."

That might actually work with this novel. "Wide load" will be the first motif I'll be interested in. Then there is all of the meteorology that'll need to be parsed. --You've no idea. But I've no idea what a pivot table is.


message 23: by Kris (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments Stephen M wrote: "Holy crap. That guy had some time on his hands."

My thought as well. I feel much better about my life now. :)


message 24: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Kris wrote: "Have you seen this? http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/0..."

Snoot: Why is Tolkien on a McElroy thread?
Talkienhead: Hobbits. They's everwhere.


message 25: by Kris (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments A pivot table is just a feature in Excel that makes it easier to cross-tabulate data. Nothing worth worrying about. :)


message 26: by Kris (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Kris wrote: "Have you seen this? http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/0..."

Snoot: Why is Tolkien on a McElroy thread?
Talkienhead: Hobbits. They's everwhere."


:) Talkienhead is particularly good.


message 27: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Kris wrote: "A pivot table is just a feature in Excel that makes it easier to cross-tabulate data."

????


message 28: by Kris (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments No worries, Nathan - nothing to see here. :)


message 29: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Katheter--all the world's a. wrote: "I'm in for October or November but won't be able to wait any longer than that.

1970S NY Changing of the Guard and all its setbacks, triumphs, and attendant ephemera?; the paradigm in which I find..."


I'd say, go ahead and get started. The group can catch up with you. There's not much advantage or damage that can happen with being ahead or behind. I've a few Friends who are currently reading and I'll be inviting them tomorrow.

As to the book, it'll have to be a library for anyone not excited about paying collector's prices. Hopefully your library will have a generous renewal policy.

Anyone willing to read McElroy is already always invited.

Stephen, if you've been charged with moderating, some rough schedule might be worked out. But this is a novel that might best be allowed to set its own pace. For discussion purposes, it might be best to set up a separate thread for each chapter or section. Some of those are already 100+ pages each, and each chapter makes a sharp shift in setting, character, style, etc.


message 30: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Did anyone notice that Ali's here? !!!! Welcome!

Finny
Pantagruel
Burton
McElroy (why not, right?)
Fantastic!


message 31: by Kris (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments Nathan "N.R." wrote: "Did anyone notice that Ali's here? !!!! Welcome!

Finny
Pantagruel
Burton
McElroy (why not, right?)
Fantastic!"


Oh good -- I was hoping you'd be here, Ali. :)


message 32: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments Damn Ali, you're a beast!

Nathan. That's a great idea. Always feel free to check back in with advice about how we should or shouldn't conduct ourselves but doing it chapter by chapter will be the best way to go about it.

I'm thinking of starting mid-october? That way we can get a lot done with our other projects before diving in. If it gets pushed back to November, I'm fine with that too.

This should be a great a fun read. I'm excited. Best of luck to all of you looking for a copy.


message 33: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments Does anyone have the prospector feature through their library? I use that a lot and it looks like my prospector has a copy of Women and Men. It's a great resource for finding books.


message 34: by [deleted user] (new)

I will totally read this with you guys, just as soon as I find a reasonably priced copy. No library or second-hand store in the state has a copy as far as my rigorous internet combing can divine, so I'm left with checking Abebooks every now and then. Someday.


message 35: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments obfuscations wrote: "i started W&M early summer and am now paused around p. 500. not sure i will hold to any particular schedule as i complete it but have been taking pretty good notes all along and will try and chime ..."

Thanks for joining, obfuscations. I had an Invite in the pipeline this morning. It will be great having another seasoned W&M reader among us.


message 36: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments James wrote: "I'm pretty much in the same position as obfuscations, right down to approximate progess. Great chance for me to get back into it."

Welcome!!


message 37: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments Welcome Ob! Please feel free to chime in, as Nathan has, about certain things we should or shouldn't do w/r/t reading the book and conducting our discussions.


message 38: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments Great to have you James! My same message to obfuscations goes to you as well.


message 39: by Jimmy (new)

Jimmy (jimmyclineetc) | 2 comments I'd be interested in starting this after finishing Herzog, but right now it's really just a matter of being able to locate a library copy as I am broke after my recent migration from Portland to Austin. I'll let y'all know. Yes, saying "y'all" is very contagious in these parts.


message 40: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments Hey James, your link doesn't seem to be working for me.

I live in Colorado and I've picked up ya'll. I do it in a sort of you-can't-tell-if-I'm-being-ironic-cheeky-or-serious-by-my-using-of-this-word way. I revel in ambiguities.

Also Jimmy, we won't be starting this until mid-October, so you'll have plenty of time to round up a copy.


message 41: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Stephen M wrote: "Hey James, your link doesn't seem to be working for me."

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...


message 42: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Jimmy wrote: "I am broke after my recent migration from Portland to Austin. I'll let y'all know. Yes, saying "y'all" is very contagious in these parts. "

Powells finally fire you for reading on the job all day? ; ) I didn't know you'd left town. But welcome back to Women & Men.


message 43: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Welcomewelcome all you wonderfulwonderful brave reading folks!

Reading Schedule:

I've heard some voices who'd like to begin in October or November. A few people began reading a few months ago. I don't think an intentional schedule will be of much value. I think each of us will need to find the pace that the book demands in each case. The discussion threads won't be going anywhere so folks can join each individual chapter discussion when they get to it.

As I've said too many times, I'm not very knowledgeable about "spoilers," but I'm fairly certain that there's not much spoilable in this novel. I could be wrong. Use tags when you think it prudent.

Any thoughts or preferences regarding start date or reading schedule or format for the discussions? Do we need any additional threads?


--I grovel at your collective audacity!


message 44: by Aloha (last edited Sep 20, 2012 10:01AM) (new)

Aloha | 497 comments I like the loose schedule. I'm planning to start sometime in October if not at the beginning of October. I'm thinking of reneging on other reading commitments to start this one ASAP. Still finishing up Gravity Dhalgren Rainbow first.


message 45: by Kris (last edited Sep 20, 2012 10:03AM) (new)

Kris (krisrabberman) | 23 comments I vote for a loose schedule. Threads set up by page numbered sections in the book provide maximum flexibility and make spoilers a non-issue. The ones you already set up look perfect to me.


message 46: by Geoff (new)

Geoff | 9 comments A loose schedule works great for me. I'm a frustratingly slow reader :(


message 47: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Ali wrote: "What you've done a few hours ago with the page numbers and (I assume) either the first few words of a section or the section titles looks good."

That's the ToC. A work of art in itself. Do notice, that when trying to sort through the folder as it gets all recombobulated, you can sort by columns. I might go back and add initial "0"s in order to make it more sortable by chapter title/page #.


message 48: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments Wow Nathan, you're the best. Thanks for setting all that up. Those look like great ways to divide up the various sections. It can also act as a nice way to tick off your progress. I might set up very tentative deadlines, but they wouldn't be definite by any means. I hear you Geoff!


message 49: by Nathan "N.R.", James Mayn (new)

Nathan "N.R." Gaddis (nathannrgaddis) | 662 comments Stephen M wrote: "Wow Nathan, you're the best. Thanks for setting all that up. Those look like great ways to divide up the various sections. It can also act as a nice way to tick off your progress. I might set up ve..."

There are a few monster-sized chapters in there. Should anyone be reading along in those chapters and find a natural breaking point, I can set up 1.1 and 1.2 and etc chapter divisions. Really, some get really long.

Stephen, as you set up a tentative schedule, keep in mind that many of us are also reading other brain-cracking books at the same time. I have no idea what that means. . .

And for those who have already ventured into the first chapter . . . . discussion, please! (please?) ; )


message 50: by Stephen M, Tome Terminator (new)

Stephen M | 81 comments I'll keep that in mind. I might make a schedule for myself, because otherwise I'll never finish the book. Then I'll send it out as a recommended spiel.


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