UK Amazon Kindle Forum discussion
General Chat - anything Goes
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A real problem or a storm in a teacup?
Hmmm,I think the genie has been out of the bottle for some considerable time now. The problem is that Amazon is such a powerful selling tool many authors cannot resist helping things along.
I can absolutely guarantee that every time an author gets a link on the Amazon forum his/her sales go up noticeably. To a lesser extent the same goes for Goodreads.
It is a new medium with huge potential and authors such as Stephen Leather were quick to experiment with it. He discovered the age old truth that 'no publicity is bad publicity' and nearly two years after he exited the UK Kindle forum he is still mentioned and discussed from time to time.
The sockpuppet/troll thing has a long way to go yet. Indeed if you look at the trolling on the UK forum you can see that they are still miles behind the U.S. in sophistication having got stuck in a farting and swearing rut.
The same goes for the sockpuppet promotions which are pretty uninspiring. I put this down to the fact that the U.S. market is much larger than the U.K and an author gets more bangs for his sockpuppet buck in the U.S. than he does in the U.K.
As for doing anything about it, no, I don't think much can be done. just be grateful that the whole thing hasn't been fully exploited - yet.
I know of one mainstream published author of quite some repute, who hails from a rich family (and I mean rich) whose debut book was bought en masse by his family to boost sales. This is not e-publishing but a tree published book.Is trolling a new development when Martin Amis used to trash author rivals in his reviews and boost author cronies in other reviews?
I'm not saying I like it, but it's hardly new...
The other thing is that amazon don't really have any interest in stopping fake reviews and hype. After all a sale is a sale however it was made.
not to mention that having amazon mentioned in the news is good for them too
It's a shame they can get away with it. Personally I don't really have a problem with them bigging up their own work, that's what authors have always done with DTB taking snippets out of reviews so they sound better.I do not agree with bad mouthing other authors though, that's just petty, immature and unprofessional.
While ebooks are 77p I suppose people are less worried that they may have been duped by the reviews. When they go back to £5-£10 it might be a different story.
Ah well. That's why it's so important to be involved in groups such as ours. What am I saying? Not 'such as'! Ours!It's the only way to get trustworthy recommendations, I reckon!
I'm thinking of maybe trying to get sales by extortion...if you do not buy all my books immediately, I shall start to sing...*takes deep breath*
Can't be any worse than Dave's crappy music.
Hmmm, that obviously won't work.Gingerlily, that looks more like a storm over a teacup, rather than a storm in a teacup.
Better, but it looks more like a squall than a storm. Those waves would go over into the saucer if it was a proper storm.
Geoff (G. Robbins) (The noisy passionfruit) wrote: "Better, but it looks more like a squall than a storm. Those waves would go over into the saucer if it was a proper storm."Well see if you can find a better one Mr Picky Ducky!
Louise-Lesley (Elle) wrote: "i quite like this onehttp://ih3.redbubble.net/image.652137..."
Oh yes! although Geoff will probably complain that its a whilrpool rather than a storm!
Gingerlily (or Cyberlily..) wrote: "Louise-Lesley (Elle) wrote: "i quite like this onehttp://ih3.redbubble.net/image.652137..."
Oh yes! although Geoff will probably complain that its a whilrpool rather th..."
or even a whirlpool
Today is obviously the day when all the pedants come out!:D
'pedant is a person who is excessively concerned with formalism and precision'oerrrr
i suppose that is where pedantic comes from. *head desk elle*
Yours is lovely Elle, but as you say, a bit whirlpoolish. That one of yours is a distinct improvement GL. Well done.It's a good job I'm not pedantic.
Ignite wrote: "Occasionally, it's a good job I am!"Can we have any examples?
Will wrote: "Ignite wrote: "Occasionally, it's a good job I am!"Can we have any examples?"
Will, you don't know what you're asking for!
Well obviously, or I wouldn't be asking, would I?
Will wrote: "Well obviously, or I wouldn't be asking, would I?"Well don't say I didn't warm you...
I hope he is good and warm now!
I'd been promised a heatwave.Where is it, then?
Toasty here.
Will wrote: "I'd been promised a heatwave.Where is it, then?"
Apparently, not where you are....
Hate to drag this vaguely back to the topic. I've just signed the No Sock Puppets pledge https://nosockpuppets.wordpress.com/Probably my comment has already vanished into the ether, so I'll restate my central message here: it's not just authors.
I obviously can't prove it, but I've noticed at least one small press publisher who have one or two glowing reviews on every book they publish... from the same two accounts.
A lot of chickens are about to come home to roost, and while self-publishers know whether their marketing has been ethical, by dint of having done it all themselves... I think a few professional authors are going to be left with egg on their faces over the promotional activities of their publishers.
Think I'll have an egg for my dinner. I'll try to keep it off my face.That's sort of on topic, isn't it?
Should be poached egg to be really appropriate.
Andrew wrote: "Hate to drag this vaguely back to the topic. I've just signed the No Sock Puppets pledge https://nosockpuppets.wordpress.com/Probably my comment has already vanished into the ether, so I'll resta..."
what promotional activities by publishers? Mid-list authors get virtually no marketing support from publishers these days. The author is charged with doing it themselves.
What do we feel about the ethics of publishers buying the window display or the front desk for their book (s)? Used to be called payola on the radio music charts.
I got to say none of this really bothers or surprises me. I just do my own thing. Others do theirs and good luck to them.
I have absolutely no problem with proper marketing. Buying a shop window is just the same as an author/publisher opening up a thread on amazon and saying 'here is our book'. I've been known to do this. Sending out review copies is another legitimate activity and publishing genuine good reviews is another.Sock puppetry is dishonest. It is the same as making up reviews from people who don't exist. I would say that it is sailing very close being false advertising and there are rules about that. It might also be considered as gaining money under false pretences which is otherwise known as fraud. It is close, therefore, to criminal activity.
I'm happy to say that every review my books have are all unsolicited and unedited (especially the bad ones!). The people who have left reviews from this group have not been influenced by me or the big blokes I sent round to speak to them. I am, therefore, very proud of each and every review, each and every sale. I doubt that SL feels the same, but then he seems to be a fairly unique sort of character.
SL has been all over facebook copying J Konrath's latest blog, where JK doesn't exactly come out against the bad practices...
I agree with Darren. Advertising and marketing are necessary and acceptable. Fake personae writing fake reviews is dishonest.
Rosemary wrote: "I agree with Darren. Advertising and marketing are necessary and acceptable. Fake personae writing fake reviews is dishonest."But when is marketing underhand? Do customers know that the publishers have purchased Waterstone's window and front desk, or do they assume it's Waterstone's own prioritising of these titles?
Professional reviewers in broadsheets and serious journals still pay off old scores or big up their mates in their reviews. Is that any less dishonest a review from someone on Amazon with an agenda in their reviewing? I'm not saying these are the same as sock puppets, merely that there is a spectrum of marketing devices and where do you draw the line along that spectrum as to the acceptable and the unacceptable? If anything, a review in a Boardsheet newspaper with an agenda behind it is more dishonest and manipulative, because it has a larger audience for it and is an abuse of the reviewers position.
Of course there are clearly shades of grey in marketing, as in anything else. Reviews in newspapers and mags I would generally assume to be advertising, and assess them accordingly. But I cannot see how sockpuppetry (?) is ever honest or fair.
Rosemary wrote: "Of course there are clearly shades of grey in marketing, as in anything else. Reviews in newspapers and mags I would generally assume to be advertising, and assess them accordingly. But I cannot se..."It isn't, I'm just saying it's not a clear divide that all the other things must be fair as most people here seem to be suggesting
Oh, I guess I'm agreeing with you then Marc... :)
Here are a few of the links, from the Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/bo...
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/rut...
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...
I know that most of us have seen this in action over the last year or so. We have also seen "heated" arguments in the Zoo on the subject.
So, as we are far more reasonable over here; what do you think will happen, now that the mainstream press have finally woken up and smelled the coffee, so to speak? Will it all blow away, or will Amazon react to the accusations of widespread dishonesty?