English Mysteries Club discussion
A Little Off-Topic
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Rating a book
Sean, I agree with you. Three stars is an average read, probably wouldn't buy the book or keep it if I had bought it, and wouldn't bother to read it again. Most good reads are four stars, and there's exceptional reads (can't put them down) that I'd call five stars. If I don't bother to finish a book, I'd give it a one star, and two stars would be books I finished but didn't like much. I would not take anything under four stars into outer space.
Um, people have seen this, right?http://xkcd.com/1098/
You may have your idea of what the number of stars means, but it doesn't necessarily jive with what others think.
I agree with the comments above. However the issue I sometimes have is that I can appreciate some books are well written but just not *my* cup of tea yet I can see how some other people might find them very good. But I guess rating is about your own reading experience, so I just go with my gut feeling.
I agree with Sean that for me 3 stars is average. I find that I rarely give 1 or 5 -- just something about the extremes that I shy away from.Having said that, I only joined GR about 5 weeks ago and in putting in my books, I definitely tend to want to enter and rate books I liked more than books I hated! So there is probably some skewing of the ratings to the high end (you won't get a bell-curve).
Brenda wrote: "Um, people have seen this, right?http://xkcd.com/1098/
You may have your idea of what the number of stars means, but it doesn't necessarily jive with what others think."
I could be wrong, but I think that's why the original poster opened the thread - to see what people think. I hope the diagram you link to is meant only as a joke... (And I never saw it before. :D)
For me, the ratings line up with school grades: 5 stars = A, 1 star = F, and so on. It works. I might have been everybody's favorite teacher, though, because I've found I'm kind of generous with 5*/A's, and it takes a lot to earn an F. It's a gut thing with me; I don't have a set of criteria for how I rate something. Might be easier.
I'm one of those who would love half stars; there are books I'd rather not put on the same plane as Shakespeare and Austen, but which I liked better than 4 stars.
Tracey wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Um, people have seen this, right?http://xkcd.com/1098/
You may have your idea of what the number of stars means, but it doesn't necessarily jive with what others think."
I could b..."
That's exactly why I opened the thread, Tracey. Certainly not a criticism of other methods. In fact just the opposite, I'm curious about other people's methods. Do you go by gut feeling? Chart? Compare to other ratings a book has rec'd? Surely there are countless other criteria that other people have and, again, I'm just curious.
I also agree with you that I'd love to have 1/2 stars, especially in the 3 and 4 star range. Several times in my review I've put in something to the effect of "I gave this book 3 stars but it's really a 3 1/2 star book for me."
Sean -- I go mostly with gut feeling rather than stringent requirement. However, I think how well a book stands up to rereading (or how likely I am to reread a book) helps me differentiate between 3 and 4 stars. I also think about GR's explanation of the stars:
2 = it was OK
3 = liked it
4 = really liked it
5 = it was amazing
I more or less go with GR's rating system, although I give 1/2 stars if I think it appropriate when I write reviews. Unlike Tracey, I'm fairly stingy with five star ratings, although I'm usually pretty positive and most of my ratings are around the four star mark. I have given less than two stars to relatively few books. For me, three stars means that I liked the book, that I'm glad to have read it. I haven't consciously considered how well it would stand up to re-reading, but that is probably part of the equation, although I've given five stars to a few books I'm not in any hurry to re-read. (Lolita, for example)I think it makes sense to have more choices at the positive end of the spectrum, because most of us are going to be drawn towards reading books which we're pretty sure that we'll like.
I almost feel sheepish about the number of 5 star ratings I hand out. But sometimes four won't cut it. So I make the authors happy.;)My ratings are also subject to change without notice, based on afterthought.
ETA my average rating is 3.92, so I'm not universally generous...
Tracey wrote: "I almost feel sheepish about the number of 5 star ratings I hand out. But sometimes four won't cut it. So I make the authors happy.;) ..."You're a kind woman, Tracey. :)
I just checked my average rating, which is 3.72, so I'm not quite as generous as you are, but not mean either. Or else you just read better books than I do!
My rating system is based on how I felt about the book - not how well written it is. This is the rating explanation I have on my blog.Ratings criteria or what I call the "put down, pick up factor":
1* put it down and leave it down, couldn't stand it, best used as a paperweight, doorstop or kindling.
2* meh, could take it or leave it but mostly leave it. I could put it down and not care if I picked it up again or not
3* okay enjoyable read, although I liked it, I could put it down easily and not rush back to continue
4* I really liked this one, I could put it down but reluctantly and was anxious to get back to it
5* Loved it! Couldn't put it down and if I absolutely had to ( if something was on fire or flooding) I couldn't wait to get back to it.
5* books are few and far between with me and the same goes for 1* star book. If it is that bad I just drop it.
I am like Tracey.:-) Perhaps I read books I like and stop half way when I dont. For e.g. recently I was reading Herta Muller's The Appointment and simply Could Not get past half of it.Then I dont rate a book.
@Kim -- How do you check your average rating??
It's listed as one of the stats under your avatar on your profile page.
Kaye wrote: "My rating system is based on how I felt about the book - not how well written it is. This is the rating explanation I have on my blog.Ratings criteria or what I call the "put down, pick up factor..."
I agree with you, Kaye. I've read many books that I would say were very well written but I did not enjoy them. When I don't enjoy a book it will not get a high rating even if I admire the author's talent.
I will weigh in on this with an average 3.96. As my reading is very pre-selected, I am not surprised that it is near 4 stars. My rating has evolved since I started on Goodreads. Initially, it was more of an A-F. Over the past year, my rating has changed. A 5-star is one that I would absolutely read the next in the series if there were one, 4 that I like a lot and would read another, 3 that I would have to consider carefully another before trying another, and 2 or 1 should be pulped. The rating system is very helpful to me in deciding what I will read next.
we looked at how we averaged out in another group I am with and I turned out to be a hard marker!!! For me 5 stars is very rare - maybe 4 -5 times a year with around 100 books read. 4 Stars is a very very good read that I would recommend to others. 3 Stars mean I did really enjoy it but maybe it was very light, or the prose was without impact yet the story was fun. 2 is something I stuck with but it was only just OK and 1 star is pretty much awful!!! I just do it my way but I have noticed how varied we are - some people rate almost everything 4 or 5 so maybe they choose excellent books or quit anything that doesnt grab them. I tend to persevere even if its not great !
Just finished Kate Atkinson's "Started Early, Took My Dog" Loved this book. Loved the characters and the black humor - added so much to the mystery. 4 stars. Yvonne
I've learned to mostly ignore ratings unless they are from people whose tastes are compatible with mine or from a large sampling. This is how I rate books.5* Outstanding in all ways
4* Above average and/or I loved it
3* Liked it but didn't love it
2* Had merit but it wasn't for me at this time
1* Loathed it, merit or no, and would never recommend
I give very few 5* or 1* so my average for 816 ratings is only 3.67. It would be very helpful to have that half star.
My average is 3.76...but I have to say it is skewed because I don't finish books that would be as low as one star..too many good ones. And yes, a half star would be mighty useful. The 4 & 5 stars usually go to authors I want to read more of.
I'm feeling like a meanie now - just checked my average & it is only 3.21. Having said that I don't think that I have given a 5 star rating on Goodreads. To me 5 stars are for a book that can never be surpassed. Even my all time favourite gets only 4 stars - although I would give it 9 and a half out of ten on my own marking system !!
Jay-me (Janet) ~plum chutney is best~ wrote: "I'm feeling like a meanie now - just checked my average & it is only 3.21..."You're not as stingy as me - I've only got a 3.17 rating average! Yikes, I didn't realize I was so parsimonious....
I'd also love 1/2 stars. To me, there is a definite gradation between 2 stars (it was OK) and 3 stars (liked it), even if that scale is only in my own estimation.
I'll usually rate a book even if I didn't finish it. To me, the fact that I didn't finish it is valid enough for rating it, even if it's highly subjective.
Like many of you, I reserve 4 and 5 stars for those books I would actually purchase and re-read (and those I'd take to a deserted island).
Hannah wrote: "Jay-me (Janet) ~plum chutney is best~ wrote: "I'm feeling like a meanie now - just checked my average & it is only 3.21..."You're not as stingy as me - I've only got a 3.17 rating average! Yikes..."
My avg is 3.67. Of course it changes every time I rate a book but it's generally in the 3.6 - 3.75 range. I should also point out that like many of us here on GoodReads, I entered lots of books I read prior to joining. It's not a surprise that I only entered books I liked, hence plenty of 3-, 4-, and 5-star books.
Like you Hannah, I rate a book even if I don't finish it (I even have a 'Didn't finish' bookshelf), though it's rare that I won't finish a book. Not surprisingly, these are my 1 and 2 star books.
I was kind of shocked the first time I saw how angry some get about how awful and unfair it was for readers to rate or review a book they had not finished. As a reader, (as I've probably said, sorry) I'm not going to finish reading something I don't enjoy. And, as a reader, I would rather see a rating and an explanation by someone whose opinion I trust explaining why they could not finish a book, than simply no sign they ever tried. That's the reasoning I go by; I don't always rate and review, if it seems like I'm just the wrong audience or the book wasn't horrible.
My view is, there's a reason you didn't or couldn't finish it so IMO it's completely valid to review and rate books that are DNF. If a book doesn't grab you and can't keep your interest then there's usually a problem with it.
Jemidar wrote: "My view is, there's a reason you didn't or couldn't finish it so IMO it's completely valid to review and rate books that are DNF. If a book doesn't grab you and can't keep your interest then there..."I completely agree with you.
Tracey wrote: "I was kind of shocked the first time I saw how angry some get about how awful and unfair it was for readers to rate or review a book they had not finished. As a reader, (as I've probably said, sorr..."I'm with you on this one.
Anita wrote: "My average is 3.76...but I have to say it is skewed because I don't finish books that would be as low as one star..too many good ones. And yes, a half star would be mighty useful. The 4 & 5 stars u..."If a book is so bad I don't want to finish it, I would rate it with the 1 star (even though I didn't read the whole thing).
It's the first job of the author, to grab the reader by the shirt collar. That is why a lot of attention is focused on the first sentence, first paragraph, or first chapter of a work. Think about the last time you picked up an unfamiliar novel. What did you do? You maybe glanced at the back cover copy or the stuff on the inside jacket flap. But then you opened the book to the first page and read the first sentence. In other words, you gave the author a chance to grab you. If the first sentence or two wasn't very interesting, you probably put the book down.But the author's second job is to twist the shirt collar -- to never let that reader go. By hedge or by stile, by hook or by crook, she has to keep the reader interested and involved. There's a huge repetoire of tricks to do that, so it's not an unknown art by any means. A failure on this point is indeed a failure, and is worth noting.
Wow, this thread's been quiet for quite awhile! Personally, I interpret the star ratings according to the Goodreads management's own definitions, as Leslie set out in message 8. (So they're skewed a bit differently than Amazon's.)I don't assign a star rating to a book I didn't finish, but I often do write an explanation of why I didn't finish it. IMO, for other readers wondering if a particular book is up their alley, that kind of feedback can be just as useful as a review by a reader who finished the book.
Werner wrote: "Wow, this thread's been quiet for quite awhile! Personally, I interpret the star ratings according to the Goodreads management's own definitions, as Leslie set out in message 8. (So they're skewed ..."Agreed. It’s always helpful to other readers to know why a particular book didn’t grab you.
Werner wrote: "I don't assign a star rating to a book I didn't finish, but I often do write an explanation of why I didn't finish it. IMO, for other readers wondering if a particular book is up their alley, that kind of feedback can be just as useful as a review by a reader who finished the book...."I try to do this as well - both for others and an aide-de-memoire for myself.
Werner wrote: "Wow, this thread's been quiet for quite awhile! Personally, I interpret the star ratings according to the Goodreads management's own definitions, as Leslie set out in message 8. (So they're skewed ..."I do the same with the ranking and writing an explanation of why I don't finish a book, Werner. And I also try to think why a particular book or series earns a 4- or 5-star rating from me and try to include it in the review because it may not do the same for others. For example, I love the Louise Penny Three Pines books because of the color she infuses into the story (and not so much I want to skip paragraphs), the development of not only the main but all the characters, and how well she is able to give the characters very human traits that makes it more like real life where few people are really entirely evil or good. Her characters sometimes make mistakes, so something that is wrong or results in bad things happening.
I am a tough rater of books. I only give 5 stars about 4 - 5 times a year and I read about 100 books a year. I initially went by the general ratings of good reads but over the last few years have changed a little. As it is very hard to compare historical fiction with modern crime ( as an example) I started to give a bit more thought to how a particular book rates within its genre. So if it’s a cosy mystery that is a quick but entertaining read I might have awarded it 3 stars before but now, if it is especially good among other cosies I ll increase the rating. Even if I have enjoyed a book within another genre more - makes it a bit more complicated but otherwise I found I was comparing ‘apples and oranges’ which simply wasn’t reflective enough of my reading.
Hope that jumble makes sense!!
Penny wrote: "Hope that jumble makes sense!!"Yes, Penny, that makes perfect sense, and it's a very good point!
I follow the same “within genre” rule as Penny, and for the most part that works well for me. The only problem is that occasionally I come across a book (generally what I would consider literary fiction) that is so far off the scale that I would appreciate a 10 star option. I normally have only 1 or 2 of those a year.
I really wish there were a 2 1/2 star button for books that are truly "meh" (nothing particularly bad or wrong, but just sort of... there).I can think of one 1 star book I have done here at Goodreads; explained why in my review. Two stars are somewhat rare, reserved for stuff like "story shows promise, but plot execution went nowhere." Three stars is good, but not great; 2.5'ers end up there with a note of such. Four stars means I liked it a lot, but not enough to rave about it. Five are rare, as they should be.
I always add written comments, even if only a sentence or two.
Totally agree with you John! It´s either 3 or 4 stars with me, and I also write a sentence to each. 1 or 5 stars are rather rare, and 2 stars seem quite negative for me, so 2,5 would be good!Another idea: Why many members have high ratings may come from only reading books that seem to be interesting to them. Even if they´re disappointed, it may still be 3 stars.
I use the rating scale suggested by Goodreads too. So a 2 is my meh rating. But I worry about giving a books a 2 when the author is not a big author and is still alive and writing. I know that some of them are on Goodreads. For my own purposes, I know that if I leave the rating blank, it would have been a 2.
That´s one point I´m often regarding too, that an author puts a lot of work into a book, so esp. when he/she isn´t so well known and still living - as you said Diane - I tend to rate higher.
John wrote: "I really wish there were a 2 1/2 star button for books that are truly "meh" (nothing particularly bad or wrong, but just sort of... there).I can think of one 1 star book I have done here at Goodr..."
Me too!
Leslie wrote: "Sean -- I go mostly with gut feeling rather than stringent requirement. However, I think how well a book stands up to rereading (or how likely I am to reread a book) helps me differentiate between ..."I tend to go with this GR rating system. It have described it in detail on my profile page, a system I developed mostly for nonfiction but which can be altered for my literary/fiction reading.
Mod
How about you?
I pretty well use goodreads ratings and I don't rate that many books five stars. Four stars means it was really good and three stars means I enjoyed it. Two stars means it was okay but lacking something. One star means I detested the book!If I'm not sure what to make of a book, I leave the ratings blank.
Bionic Jean wrote: "I stick to the GR guidelines, and a bell curve principle, so my default is always three stars. It take a lot to move a book from that, for me! I also do as others say, and rate within a genre or ty..."I agree, Jean. I like and enjoy 3-star books and will read others in the series, or the same author, but 4- and 5-star books have something special to them — depth of character, complexity of story, etc.
I have been coming to the realization that I really need to rethink my rating philosophy. But then I think about going back to redo all my old ratings…. And nothing happens.
Bionic Jean wrote: "I stick to the GR guidelines, and a bell curve principle, so my default is always three stars. It take a lot to move a book from that, for me! I also do as others say, and rate within a genre or ty..."I'm with you!
Goodreads reviewers have traditionally ranked books lower than Amazon reviewers, but I'm not sure readers are aware of that. For an indie author to be recognized by professional reviewers, advertisers, etc., a 3.5 - 4 star average is necessary. So I like to err on the side of generosity.
I wish we could do 3.5*. My default is a 3*. It takes a lot to get a 4* out of me. Also happens more on books further into a series.
I noticed that there are some readers who have an avg rating of, like, 4.5 stars. This is fine for them (Goodreads is certainly not a competition) but simply as a point of reference, I try to be a bit more objective when it comes to rating a book.
I guess my 2 points of reference in giving stars are (1) Is the book I just read average or above avg or below avg?
(2) If I'm taking a lonnng trip to outer space and I can only bring 10 books, would I consider bringing this book on my trip?
Starting with 3 STARS, which for me is average. Not bad, not great, but definitely a good read. They're not multiple-read books so they're not going on my outer space trip.
4 STARS would then be just above avg and 5 STARS would be way above average. Every book I'm taking on my outer space trip would have to be 4 & 5 stars. Definite multiple-read books.
The flip side would be 2 and 1 STAR books - below avg or way below avg. There's absolutely no chance I'm reading these books ever again. Of course, they don't go on my outer space trip.