Goodreads Librarians Group discussion

Thanks, rivka!

And, for entries on the rescue list that say "might be merged" is the merge a given, because I don't want to spend time rescuing those books?

Moloch wrote: "I don't know if that's possible, but I'm looking for new books to rescue through all my past librarian edits[....]

Could there be a note beside each book in danger there? (Like the one on the editions page)"

Motion seconded; I've found many more in need of rescue that I've edited in the past than there are on my shelves (probably mostly because I've edited more books than I will ever, ever have time to read, even if I was interested in all of them).

Jan, is that because it has fewer elements? That's really only because many of the elements of the edition you are rescuing are already in the system (and don't need changing). Adding a new book is a bit different in that regard.

Jeannette wrote: "And, for entries on the rescue list that say "might be merged" is the merge a given, because I don't want to spend time rescuing those books?"

It's "might" until someone rescues them (or an import does). Or until the 30th. Whichever comes first.

This book is on my Rescue list but I can't find it on Amazon: La Locura maníaco-depresiva; la catatonia; la hebefrenia

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/81...

rivka wrote: "Trikis, books like that on their rescue page most often only need the title rescued, and not the author name."

Most of the books on my Rescue list need the author rescued, not the title. That's why I brought it up (I thought it might be because of what I did when adding them)

No, even with the books that I had to add all information this one was clearer. It's because the elements seem less clustered together, and the input field isn't the same color as the background.

I wouldn't want this for editing data for books, but for adding new information, I really like it.

Regardless if it's used ever again, kudos for the design, it definitely helped along the easiness of the process.

rivka wrote: "Jeannette wrote: "And, for entries on the rescue list that say "might be merged" is the merge a given, because I don't want to spend time rescuing those books?"

It's "might" until someone rescues ..."

So, if they are not rescued, will they be merged? Do I need to just choose other editions to get around all of it, or will GR automatically merge the bad data into a valid entry? That's important to know, because I am assuming I'll get change editions rather than end up with "blank" entries. (without any action on my part).

Trikis wrote: "This book is on my Rescue list but I can't find it on Amazon: La Locura maníaco-depresiva; la catatonia; la hebefrenia"

That's because you changed its ISBN at some point. I reverted them. Please don't change an existing edition's ISBN data; create a new edition instead.

Trikis wrote: "Most of the books on my Rescue list need the author rescued, not the title. That's why I brought it up (I thought it might be because of what I did when adding them)"

At this point, rescuing by providing the missing info is your best bet. The scripts updating sources based on edits have all run. They may have missed some (especially edits made before the logs formats were standardized), but they've gotten everything they're going to be able to get.

Jeannette, if you move your review to another (safe) edition, then it won't be affected. Any other users with reviews on that edition may be, though.

So its your call whether to try to rescue them or leave them for others.

Well, I'll concentrate on the "may be deleted" versions first, but I know that there are other people assuming "might" be merged means "will" be merged.

(I'll fix what I can...)

Jan wrote: "No, even with the books that I had to add all information this one was clearer. It's because the elements seem less clustered together, and the input field isn't the same color as the background."

Interesting! I'll pass that along.

rivka wrote: "Trikis wrote: "This book is on my Rescue list but I can't find it on Amazon: La Locura maníaco-depresiva; la catatonia; la hebefrenia"

That's because you changed its ISBN at some po..."

Mh... That's because it was registered to one ISBN (9879165004) but printed with another one (9879954599) belonging to another book (La Demencia Precoz, 2da Parte). I guess I wanted to be faithful to the printing. I'll change it and post a note.

Thank you, Mayanka! Very useful.

Jeannette wrote: "I know that there are other people assuming "might" be merged means "will" be merged."

Well, it IS "will" -- unless someone saves it first. (I feel like I'm missing something here.)

As with all the British editions, there seem to be a lot of Australian editions and works that are at risk. Might be worth looking at Australian sources for the future as well.

Also, a good site to add to the FAQ for Australian books is:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/book

rivka wrote: "Jeannette wrote: "I know that there are other people assuming "might" be merged means "will" be merged."

Well, it IS "will" -- unless someone saves it first. (I feel like I'm missing something here.)"

Just needed enough iterations for you to state it in the way I was hoping it would be! That takes a big weight off my mind! Thank you! :)

:)

This has been a crazy crash course in "how to be a librarian" for me, these past two days! Everyone who has helped me has been so nice! :D

For the FAQ:

Found a German meta search interface for library catalogs worldwide.

German version: http://www.ubka.uni-karlsruhe.de/kvk....

English version: http://www.ubka.uni-karlsruhe.de/kvk_...

Rivka, if you're still around, can you look at my messages 994 & 996. :)

Sandra, I think Open Library was a one-time import. And I don't know what caused that combine, but I don't the imports did. They affect individual book records, and combines are different.

OK, Off to fix those combines :)

It was weird, just couldn't see where it got jumbled up, and with so many experienced librarians, we would've noticed when we edited, I'm sure.

It is weird. But I think even our most experienced librarians are a bit frazzled at the moment. ;)

Thanks to everyone who has suggested data sources for foreign books. I've added them to the FAQ thread.

rivka wrote: "It is weird. But I think even our most experienced librarians are a bit frazzled at the moment. ;)"

Your thinking is correct. ;-)

True, but the edits were from before the Amazon thing :)

Patrick wrote: "Thanks to everyone who has suggested data sources for foreign books. I've added them to the FAQ thread."

Here's one for books edited in Argentina, it has ALL the books from the ISBN era:
http://agencia.librosar.com.ar/portal...

Rivka or Patrick or someone, would it be possible to set the FAQ thread so that it stays at the top? Since it gets no new comments, it doesn't show up in my feed and I've had some trouble finding it.

Betsy - it is already set at the top.

Indeed. It is the very first topic on the group page.

I see. I wasn't looking on the group page, but on the group discussions on my home page. Sorry.

It will only show up there when there are new posts. Don't know any way around that.

Trikis wrote: "Patrick wrote: "Thanks to everyone who has suggested data sources for foreign books. I've added them to the FAQ thread."

Here's one for books edited in Argentina, it has ALL the books from the ISB..."

Thank you very much, much of my rescues come from Vergara ;)

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but diacritical marks are a little "off" in Worldcat. Copying and pasting an author's name, such as György Lukács (pasted from Worldcat) will result in a different author entry from the existing, correct author page. So FYI it's better to copy and paste from the GR author page.

Well, I've got (or I created) a bit of a problem... and still many questions. I feel I've spent so many hours now reading and searching this thread that I'm losing precious time I could spend fixing/rescuing and perhaps should just ask y'all even if these things have already been covered/answered. My apologies if I'm causing anyone to have to repeat themselves for the hundredth time.

1- When does information from amazon become "information in my brain"? Many books I manually entered up to four years ago are now packed away, buried, on loan, or swapped. So if a rescue page asks for author/title only, well of course I know what they are without needing to check the book. I hate to ask this, but do I really have to find or reacquisition the book to honestly check the "I have a copy" box? Or is this more like, yeah, I could produce the receipts in case of an audit?

2.1- When I look at a friend's list, and their books require inputing only title and author, heck, I know who wrote Master and Margarita without needing their edition in my hand, nor did that information come to me via amazon. Is anyone else grappling with the (I don't know what to call this feeling, a feeling that makes me cry "why-why-why??" inside) of having to track down a source url to prove they know Herman Melville is the author of every edition of Moby Dick, even when it's in Serbian? I'm just not understanding why amazon "owns" this knowledge even if it has been electronically slotted into a data field from their site at one time-- so if I can't find a source url, when am I as a source good enough?

2.2- I've never needed a source url when I edited a title from Moby Dick to Moby-Dick: or The Whale because I can see on the cover of the book that's what the title says; doing regular librarian stuff on normal days, I've changed primary authors because I can see on the book that the guy listed second on goodreads is listed first on the book-- let's say I edit a book needing rescue through the regular editing process (from the book page, not the rescue pages), will such books be saved because the info came from me? (I guess I'm exploring the possibility of a workaround, which does not require url hunting: change Author X [sourced in that field from amazon] to Author Y. Save changes and now the author field is sourced by me, correct? Then edit the page again, change Author Y back to Author X, and... is that still somehow amazon's data?)

3- A friend (not a librarian) has some physical books by author friends (not on goodreads), whose books are sourced only from amazon and are therefore marked for deletion. I've asked him to get me the publishers, links if possible, but if not-- really, can I say I have a physical copy (I could with a phone call produce the book if the amazon police ever came over), or does he have to become a librarian or they have to sign up as goodreads authors, or should we meet for coffee and he show me the books before I can honestly check the "I have a copy" box? *sigh*

4.1- I read all the emphases on not getting any info from booksellers, and saw several posts stating which sites not to use (eg, alibris, Powells, etc), but only tonight did I see LibraryThing tossed into the no-no list once or twice-- after I had used them as a source url for a bunch of rescues today (I thought they'd be fine since they're not a bookseller, but I'm guessing they're out because they source from amazon and we don't want to source from amazon by proxy? And yes, I feel dumb/bad for not thinking of this earlier, despite a queasy feeling I had about linking to them). What now? Will these books, now off the endangered lists, get swept up in The Big Delete? :o(

4.2 In many cases, I actually got my info from both my local library AND LibraryThing, but since I could not link both, I opted to use the LibraryThing url because it was a "cleaner" url (the library link was ridiculously long "&session_id=123456#98765&searchcat=book+Moby_Dick&etc&etc). However, I was very sure to use only "member uploaded images" and NOT "images from amazon"-- does that make a difference in whether using LibraryThing was acceptable? I'm guessing not, but since it's already done, thought I'd ask... I hope I didn't do something which will cause books to falsely appear rescued... until the 30th :o(

I'm sorry this is so long, and so many thanks to everyone for their hard work and help, and to anyone who can unbefuddle me on one or more issues brought up above.

P.S. Only because this amazon problem has forced me to look at some books I haven't paid any attention to since I added them four years ago when I joined, I've noticed a mess has come of publication dates (both to dates of edition and dates of original publication). Has anyone else seen a significant number of their books listed with much more current publication dates than they should have?

Has anyone else seen a significant number of their books listed with much more current publication dates than they should have?

Yes. I've also seen a lot of covers replaced - older covers with newer covers. It's extremely irritating.

Also, re Librarything images - I've been getting images from there since I joined GR in 2009. I'm not going to stop now. However, I haven't been using Librarything as an ISBN verification source.

LibraryThing has been on the "no" list since the list of sources was added to the FAQ. They also don't match covers to ISBNs, so I'm not sure how they can be used to verify covers at any time.

Books that no longer show up as Amazon-sourced won't be removed with Amazon data. What will happen with those from problematic sources is not something I can answer (I don't know).

You need to have the book, or a record of the book (so if you keep have cover images on your hard drive that you scanned, for instance), when you enter it. That's what you are legally taking responsibility for when you click that radio button.

I am currently not adding any cover images, sorry. I am rescuing German language books using the Deutsche Nationalbibliothek and it does not seem to store cover images.

I get the cover image from Librarything when I already know what the cover looks like - either I own the book, or I've gotten it from the library, or whatever. The only drawback with them is their images are on the small side.

Well, some covers are going to look a bit "funny" with part of my table or my sofa, I'm not a great photographer but it's difficult to find a real photo of an Argentinian book in the 90s.

rivka wrote: "LibraryThing has been on the "no" list since the list of sources was added to the FAQ.

They were not mentioned in the email alert I got about this last night, nor on the rescue pages, and not in several messages in this thread which state forbidden sources. Only booksellers were emphasised. I did not see the FAQ until after I'd started the rescue effort based on the other information I had received and found at that time. Perhaps the specific do-not-use list and/or a link to the FAQ could be posted on the sidebar on the rescue pages?

They also don't match covers to ISBNs, so I'm not sure how they can be used to verify covers at any time."

I can recognise the cover of a book I've got when I see it online-- I don't have a scanner, so I get the covers from somewhere else. I thought this was common. I even do used bookstore match-ups whenever I'm so inclined to go hunting for those sad brown "No image available"s (if I've seen several versions of some old book at the store, I can come home and match them up to the corresponding GR's record). Sometimes I've used LibraryThing's images because the amazon ones are scans of books with tears or someone's table in the background, etc. Or, amazon doesn't have the picture of the book I got from the library, LibraryThing does. An existing goodreads image was blurry, LibraryThing's was clear. A friend pointed to an image on LibraryThing and told me that's the one they have. There have been many, many times LibraryThing's images have been useful, and verifiable without an associated ISBN.

You need to have the book, or a record of the book [...] when you enter it. That's what you are legally taking responsibility for when you click that radio button.

So a friend calling me on the phone and telling me the publisher of the book in his hand does not qualify as able to be rescued without a url, is that correct?

Thanks Gundula for your work on German books, my Reclams were making me crazy yesterday! ;o)

Gundula wrote: "I checked on the list of one of my friends who is also German and her list is above 500, many of them books I am very unfamiliar with."

Gundula, maybe you want to ask your friend to send me a GR friend invitation so I can help out with her books? (Maybe PM me with her name first so I'll know who to expect this from, if that's OK.) I'm mainly using German National Library data to rescue German titles as well, btw. No covers -- those can well and truly come later!

Brixton wrote: "rivka wrote: "LibraryThing has been on the "no" list since the list of sources was added to the FAQ.

They were not mentioned in the email alert I got about this last night, nor on the rescue pag..."

The deutsche Nationalbibliothek is really quite a good website. They don't seem to have any cover images though, so I am not going to bother (and for the Reclam books, at least the yellow ones, there really is no cover image).

I know what you are saying about book memories. I have Bousille et les Justes shelved and it needs to be rescued. I have a copy of that particular play, but because I cannot find it, the book now runs the risk of being deleted. Frankly, I don't find that acceptable, especially since I have not been able to as yet find a good Canadian book source (for both English and French books).

Themis-Athena wrote: "Gundula wrote: "I checked on the list of one of my friends who is also German and her list is above 500, many of them books I am very unfamiliar with."

Gundula, maybe you want to ask your friend t..."

I might do that. Thanks. I have to admit that while covers are nice, book information is much better and more important.

Themis-Athena wrote: "Gundula wrote: "I checked on the list of one of my friends who is also German and her list is above 500, many of them books I am very unfamiliar with."

Gundula, maybe you want to ask your friend t..."

I sent her both a message and a friend recommendation; we'll see if she bites.

Gundula wrote: "I sent her both a message and a friend recommendation; we'll see if she bites."

Great -- I'll wait to hear from her then!

I've a problem with pseudonyms. The Deutsche National Bibliothek shelves all of Alan Burt Akers' books under his real name Kenneth Bulmer. So how do I legally verify that the book's primary author is Alan Burt Akers? I don't want to go back each time and re-change it afterwards. Any ideas?

Also, what's wrong with this edition: Der Weiße Wolf? The ISBN must be wrong because I don't get any results from the Nationalbibliothek.

Felix wrote: "Also, what's wrong with this edition: Der Weiße Wolf? The ISBN must be wrong because I don't get any results from the Nationalbibliothek."

I found a few German cookbooks by Roland Gööck that don't have an entry in the Deutsche Nationalbibliothek (I guess I will just leave them). And I did find a few where the ISBN number was wrong, where I had to actually use the title (otoh, the ISBN number could be wrong on GR as well, but I don't have the time to check this at the moment)