Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy" discussion

Death Dealer book 1; Prisoner of the Horned Helmet.
Not bad so far, old school '80s S&S. I also have the second book on my shelf; if they are good, I might try and track down the other two.

I just finished Black Bottle by Anthony Huso. Unfortunately it's the second book of a duology but fortunately it's a successful, beautifully strange fantasy mixing super-science, mathematical magic and Lovercraftian destruction waiting in the wings.

I'm planning to read the new Beneath Ceaseless Skies and Heroic Fantasy Quarterly for my fantasy quota this week. Out of genre I'm going to be reading The Cross of Iron

I finished A Discourse in Steel, which I most highly recommend, and am about half way through The Company Man, which is most certainly not S&S but which I also most highly recommend.

Finished The Company Man, which was really quite good, and am back into the S&S fold with Matthias Thulmann: Witch Hunter by C.L. Werner. Have always had a soft spot for Games Workshop's Warhammer and Warhammer 40K settings.

I am currently reading Frankenstein with my book group; The Evolution of Science Fiction. First time reading it, and I am quite enjoying it. It's quite different than the films and Victor Frankenstein is a daffy bastard.

I'm also poking at C.L. Moore's Black God's Kissbut I haven't picked it up for a little while.

Dan wrote: "I am currently reading Frankenstein with my book group;"



Yeah, Frankenstein shocked me when I first read it. Frankenstein was Boris Karloff for me... until I read that book, then he became human. It was one of those books that showed me just how much movies change stories around. It's barely recognizable from movie to book.

The book was so good. I never really liked the movies much.

William wrote: "Re-read an old favorite today - THE BROKEN SWORD by Poul Anderson. It still stands up pretty well."

I'm in the middle of The Broken Sword now and loving it! The classic mythology in a tragic tale really hits the spot.

Dan wrote: "I am currently reading Frankenstein with my book group; The Evolution of Science Fiction. First time reading it, and I am quite enjoying it. It's quite different than the films and Victor Frankenst..."

I liked Frankenstein both in book and movie form, though the two are very different. Frankenstein reads as a little amateurish to me though. It's by no means the masterpiece that Dracula is. I reread that one over and over again.

Is Black God's Kiss good? I've been meaning to check that one out for a while.

I'm planning to start Pierre Pevel's The Cardinal's Blades, which isn't quite S&S -- too much politics -- more a swashbuckling historical fantasy from the sound of it, but, well ... swashbuckling with dragons. And politics. Pretty enticing.

Frankenstein is on my reading list so hopefully getting to it within the month or so.
Not sure I would consider Dracula a masterpiece Michael : ) don't get me wrong it was a good read but so anti-climatic that I damn near threw the book down lol.
Hear lots of good stuff about Black God's Kiss I have it on my reader ready to go after I get done with REH's The Lost Valley of Iskander.

(view spoiler)[The whole team of vampire hunters chasing him down, battling his minions, and finally beheading him at the cost of one of their own (hide spoiler)] is anti-climactic? o_O

(view spoiler)[ considering how easy it was to defeat him when they actually got him mmmmm yeah :) I totally expected a more dramatic end for dracula instead he went out more with a whimper.(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

I guess I can see your point from a modern context, but they didn't really have battle royale with the villains back then. :P

HAHA Yeah no battle royale's, but I can still appreciate how fast they wrapped up the stories back then. (view spoiler)[ It was similar in Carmilla but I feel her ending had a more powerful effect on me when I read it.(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

The whole team of vampire hunters chasing him down [...] anti-climactic? o_O
It was similar in Carmilla [...]


Guys, please use spoiler alert formatting


when revealing significant part of the plot on any work, regardless of its popularity.
Thanks for your understanding :)

Sorry, I fixed it.

Thank you, both!

Finished The Lost Valley of Iskander by Robert E Howard, at least two of the three stories were really good. Looking forward to reading the rest of the El Borak stories. Starting on The Black Gods kiss by C.L. Moore and The She Devil by REH which is a collection of his stories from Spicey Adventure Stories publication. I hope they are good.

Finished reading Black God's Kiss by C.L. Moore, what a great story. I need to find more of her works with this character. Also finished She Devil by REH and those were a bunch a great stories indeed. Lots of action and well just great fun to read! Getting ready to start on REH's Three Bladed Doom next and hopefully it will be another great read too.

The Jirel of Joiry stories by C.L. Moore are indeed great. Paizo Publishing has a couple Moore books in print, but I'd recommend Gollancz's Black Gods and Scarlet Dreams, which has all but one of the Jirel stories and most of the equally cool Northwest Smith tales. Northwest Smith was basically Han Solo before there was a Han Solo.

Thanks Phil! I will definitely look for those books. I have a paperback collection of the Northwest Smith tales but I haven't read them over twenty years so I have completely forgotten anything about them.

Paizo's Planet Stories (they published reprints of Black God's Kiss and Northwest of Earth, to say nothing of Elak of Atlantis, The Sword of Rhiannon and many others) is one of those imprints that I wish could've just kept going and going and going.

S.wagenaar wrote: "Death Dealer book 1; Prisoner of the Horned Helmet.
Not bad so far, old school '80s S&S. "

I have all four of James Silke's Deathdealer (read the first three). Never felt compelled to read the fourth, despite the awesome cover. From what I recall, the second had the most fantastic flare (qoutient of beasts and sorcery), but it has been a while. I had in mind that the animated/rotoscoped Fire and Ice movie (1983) presented Frazetta's character better (the Darkwolf character was modeled after the Death Dealer). It would be good to hear your perspective (so please share your thoughts as you delve in).

I looked at the Planet Stories that are out and they have alot of great stuff there. I ended up getting Elak of Atlantis by Henry Kuttner and The Ship of Ishtar by A Merritt as well as Black Gods and Scarlet Dreams. Can't wait for them to get here! Definitely a series of books I will spend my money on to get.

Aaron wrote: "I looked at the Planet Stories that are out and they have alot of great stuff there. I ended up getting Elak of Atlantis by Henry Kuttner and The Ship of Ishtar by A Merritt as well as Black Gods ..."

Excellent choices all!

Planet Stories would have all my money if they did ebooks...

I own all the hardcopies but I'd gladly rebuy eBooks. Likewise Haffner Press. (Well, I don't actually own all the Haffner editions.)

S.E. wrote: I have all four of James Silke's Deathdealer (read the first three). Never felt compel..." Same here I read the first three way back in the 90's, and though I remember enjoying them I definitely need to reread them and they are on the stack once again.

Joseph wrote: "I own all the hardcopies but I'd gladly rebuy eBooks. Likewise Haffner Press. (Well, I don't actually own all the Haffner editions.)"

I'm jealous :)... Those Haffner Press books are rather expensive but they have some interesting titles there.

And as for myself, I finished up Matthias Thulmann: Witch Hunter, which was enjoyable, and started Range of Ghosts by Elizabeth Bear, which isn't really S&S, but includes both swords and sorcery and takes place in a fascinating central Asia-based setting.

Finished Almuric by Robert E Howard and thus ends my REH reading spree. Now to figure out what to read next lol.

Just finished The Revelations of Zang. Very cool collection of linked shorts. He's got a great feel for the epic (mountain sized gods stalking the land, almost unbelievably big magic battles, etc.). Starting T C Rypel's Gonji: The Soul Within the Steel tonight.

Michael wrote: "Dan wrote: "I am currently reading Frankenstein with my book group; The Evolution of Science Fiction. First time reading it, and I am quite enjoying it. It's quite different than the films and Vict..."

I much prefered Frankenstein to Dracula. Though Frankenstein really was amateur (Shelley was 18 or something there in abouts), I thought it was quite mature for her age and experience. It was quite insightful into the mind and people's need for relationships. The duality between Frankenstein and his creation is fantastic in this book.

Dracula on the other hand just seemed flat. Every chracter felt the same, they all spoke the exact same way and wrote in their journals in the exact same way. To me it should have been the better novel considering Stoker's experience but instead it ended up being a Carmilla inspired mediocrity.

I only read the first story in Black God's Kiss since I've been reading other stuff as well, but I really enjoyed it. It stands up well with other prominent S&S of the time.

Michael wrote: "William wrote: "Re-read an old favorite today - THE BROKEN SWORD by Poul Anderson. It still stands up pretty well."

I'm in the middle of The Broken Sword now and loving it! The classic mythology ..."

A great novel. For me it was quite a unique read, it harkens more to E.R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros or viking sagas than it did to traditional S&S.

Fletcher wrote: "Just finished The Revelations of Zang. Very cool collection of linked shorts. He's got a great feel for the epic (mountain sized gods stalking the land, almost unbelievably big magic battles, etc..."

Hope the middle act of The Deathwind Trilogy is an engaging and exciting complication of dramatic events for you, Fletcher. If you finished book one and are moving deeper into it, I take that as a good sign!

Thank you for devoting some of that most precious of commodities---discretionary time---to my books.

Recently finished A Feast for Crows. 800+ pages of spinning wheels. If it wasn't for staying ahead of the HBO series I'd quit... again.

Now I'm reading Red Country by Joe Abercrombie. Starts slow, but ramps up pretty quick. It reminds me a bit of Beyond the Black River by REH and one of any number of old 'wagon train' westerns.

Dan wrote: "Michael wrote: "Dan wrote: "I am currently reading Frankenstein with my book group; The Evolution of Science Fiction. First time reading it, and I am quite enjoying it. It's quite different than th..."

Yeah, it's a bit of a modern take on the viking sagas. It's still an adventure tale sword & sorcery enthusiasts will enjoy even it's not 100% in the genre.

All of that traditional mythology is pertinent to the things I use in my own writing so it was a thrill to see someone else using that. I really want to get my hands on a good copy of The Worm Ouroboros. I've been meaning to read that for a while.

Michael wrote: "All of that traditional mythology is pertinent to the things I use in my own writing so it was a thrill to see someone else using that. I really want to get my hands on a good copy of The Worm Ouroboros. I've been meaning to read that for a while. ..."

The Worm Ouroboros is really something, although it can be a bit of a slog. I also liked Zimiamvia: A Trilogy, which is kind of a sequel (the relationship between Worm and Zimiamvia is ... complicated). Haven't read those in many years.

And speaking of Viking sagas: Styrbiorn the Strong just got reprinted a few years back. (After, of course, I bought a vintage hardcover.)

I hadn't realized the Zimiamvia trilogy was connected to the Worm. I have the first two sitting on my shelf and have contemplated picking them up. His writing is pretty unique. It's as much epic fantasy as it is sword & sorcery, at least in the Worm. It was an interesting time for fantasy and fiction in general. There was little precedent other than actual myths and epic poems.

The Zimiamvian books are also complicated by the facts that a) Eddison wrote the series pretty much in reverse chronological order and b) the final book he wrote (The Mezentian Gate) was left incomplete, although it includes relatively detailed summations of the sections he had yet to flesh out.

The simplest solution is probably just to read them in the order in which they were published -- Mistress of Mistresses, Fish Dinner In Memison and Mezentian Gate. But if you're really curious, L. Sprague de Camp gave an approximate reading order based on internal chronology in his Literary Swordsmen and Sorcerers: The Makers of Heroic Fantasy, a book I suspect would be of interest to most people in this group.

Thanks for the tip Joseph. That's unfortunate to hear that he didn't complete the series. Did he pass away before it was complete or just left it incomplete from lack of interest?

Currently reading: From the Earth to the Moon by Jules Verne. It's a group read book for my good reads group The Evolution of Science Fiction. Very interesting so far, and Verne is very technical in his approach to speculative fiction/science fiction.

It looks like he died before completing it. Per de Camp, he'd start with a detailed outline, then go in and write individual sections in no particular order as the mood took him, so the book as published goes from fully fleshed-out narrative to outline and back several times.

Finished reading God Stalk by P.C. Hodgell the other day and reviewed it for Black Gate (http://www.blackgate.com/2013/10/15/g...) I can't recommend this one enough. The sequels are more epic than S&S but are equal good.

Fletcher wrote: "Finished reading God Stalk by P.C. Hodgell the other day and reviewed it for Black Gate (http://www.blackgate.com/2013/10/15/g...) I can't recommend this one enough. The sequel..."

Great review!

Joseph wrote: "Fletcher wrote: "Finished reading God Stalk by P.C. Hodgell the other day and reviewed it for Black Gate (http://www.blackgate.com/2013/10/15/g...) I can't recommend this one e..."

Thanks! She's such an insufficiently recognized writer.

Fletcher wrote: "Thanks! She's such an insufficiently recognized writer. ..."

I was thrilled when I discovered the Hypatia edition of Seeker's Mask, and then when she got picked up by Meisha Merlin; I'm happier now that she's with Baen just because they seem likelier to not just vanish in a wisp of bankrupt smoke.

I had no money when the Hypatia editions came out and it killed me. From her site comments, she seems pretty satisfied with Baen (despite the art).

I've got God stalk and need to read it. My wife also said it was tremendously good

"The Kencyr are a group of three races sworn to the service of the Three-Faced God and bound together by him to fight Perimal Darkness, a warping force of chaos and evil sweeping over the planes of existence. [...] There’s a joyful creativity to Hodgell’s writing [...] There are knife fights, combat dancing, soul devouring, and fights with demons and detached souls. [...] she deliberately chose to place Jame in a Leiberesque setting"

All of the above are reason enough to track down the book. Thanks for bringing that to our attention!

I'm planning on starting A Road of Blood and Slaughter soon...

Charles wrote: "I've got God stalk and need to read it. My wife also said it was tremendously good"
It's one of the books I actively feel a need to always push. Good, good stuff.