I tried reading this book in college, but had to put it down when he kept referring to women as bitches and whores. For women who have read the book, did that dissuade you?

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8 years ago
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Gaia I'm reading the last pages of the book. Personally, I don't think the point was to denigrate women, and I did not feel dissuaded. Whores do exists, and he talks about them, sometimes with strong words and expression, but it's all part of his poetical style. He writes down the decay of his society, and from the bottom of the dirt, meaningless, life, from chaos he builds up a brand new rebirth by means of art and sound and literature and women too. Of course is a male point of view and it can be hard to find yourself it, and I do believe that some women could not appreciate it. However the message of the whole book is just so powerful when you feel it that you can read it from a higher point of view and surpass the first impressions, that can be found offensive. if you didn't already, I suggest you to read some of the love letters Henry wrote to Anais Nin. He put down words every woman would love to hear from a lover.
(Of course this is a personal thought)

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J. Daniels Not even slightly. If we only read books that lined up with our own world view - what would be the point of reading the book? Huckleberry Finn contains words I find personally offensive; absolutely contemptible. However, if I had put that book down it would never have been for that reason, maybe because the end, to me, kind of sucked, but never because of the labels. I loved the Tropic of Cancer. I thought it was one of the best books I've ever read, he is a master, a poet. You will do what you will do, but for me I try not to limit myself over labels. I try to expose myself to opinions that oppose my opinions.

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Ina I also had a similar experience. Left the book, then got back to it so I would just read it completely before deciding what I thought of it and the author. I quite dislike the author and the plot in all his novels is very weak, but there is something very interesting about the way he just made so many people read his work by being disrespectful and patronizing with his characters. I do think he is a talented writer, I just don't like him very much.

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Kala The labels are by far not the worst thing in the book. It's really not about what he calls the women but how he treats and describes them. It's a deeply misogynistic book, and sure, you can claim that it's all a psychological analysis and a demonstration of how horrible people are, but an analysis is something that analyses, that looks at different sides of an issue, whether through thought or action. Something that just describes women as garbage without ever questioning that idea is not an analysis. It's just misogyny. And, to be honest, I find it kind of funny, in a sad way, that people say this isn't a book to read because you want to feel validated in your views, because the world is still full of misogynists, and they WILL feel validated in their views with this book. That's what I find troubling. My problem with books like this is not that I feel uncomfortable or offended, that's largely irrelevant. It's that I've met enough violent misogynists in my life to not particularly appreciate books that make those people feel good about themselves.
Now, of course, I'm not saying books can't have bigoted characters or anything of the sort, but there's a difference between writing about bad people because bad people exist and acknowledging that they're bad, and writing from the perspective of a terrible person and never truly criticizing them.
Because there's no analysis here, there are no alternatives - the book is just filled with gratuitous bigotry that's never punished or questioned, and it would be ignorant and naive to believe that the world isn't filled with people who will read that and simply agree with the protagonist and feel validated. I like exposing myself to opposing opinions and trying to understand people that are different from me. But I see misogynists every day. It's not a rare fascinating opinion I need to go searching for. It's the reason I can't go outside alone after dark.

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badhairday No, I imagine most women aren't fragile butterflies who need reinforcement in everything they read.

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Sally Kay He is a talented writer but I was definitely put off by his disregard for women. More than calling them whores or bitches, but his treatment of the women in the novel made me cringe.

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Heather DNF at page 242. Just couldn't read him describe another woman as a cunt.

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Noelia112 I have heard the book is really mysoginist , the main character treats women as they were a piece of meat without feelings and finds himself having sexual relationships with "whores" (for him every woman is a whore because obviously they are inferior humans and they doesn´t deserve to be respected). So, it´s just another patriarchal book to make men feel they are better ando women exist only to satisfy their desires.
I could only read this book with critical eye and not enjoy the plot.
However, if you want to read it and something inside you keeps tellin you something is wrong I recommend you to read Sexual Politics from Kate Millet, who analyze the book.
Good luck!

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Lloyd Fassett His misogyny was so over the top, I think he was making a point that we're all crap and it's a crappy world. This isn't a book to read because you're following a plot and looking for a happy ending that reaffirms your values. This is one of the greatest books I've read, because it's not that plus it has a philosophy about life still being about a spark to create and a drive to experience things. But, I don't think you're supposed to think the way the main character does of women or call them names etc. Their very well be that kinds of people in the world, but this isn't that kind of book.

Here's the key passage that made me think about the misygony from a different angle:

"On the meridian of time there is no injustice: there is only the poetry of motion creating the illusion of truth and drama. If at any moment anywhere one comes face to face with the absolute, that great sympathy which makes men like Gautama and Jesus seem divine freezes away; the monstrous thing is not that men have created roses out of this dung heap, but that, for some reason or other, they should want roses. For some reason or other man looks for the miracle, and to accomplish it he will wade through blood. He will debauch himself with ideas, he will reduce himself to a shadow if for only one second of his life he can close his eyes to the hideousness of reality. Everything is endured—disgrace, humiliation, poverty, war, crime, ennui—in the belief that overnight something will occur, a miracle, which will render life tolerable. And all the while a meter is running inside and there is no hand that can reach in there and shut it off. All the while someone is eating the bread of life and drinking the wine, some dirty fat cockroach of a priest who hides away in the cellar guzzling it, while up above in the light of the street a phantom host touches the lips and the blood is pale as water. And out of the endless torment and misery no miracle comes forth, no microscopic vestige even of relief. Only ideas, pale, attenuated ideas which have to be fattened by slaughter; ideas which come forth like bile, like the guts of a pig when the carcass is ripped open."

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Steff As a woman, I found it somewhat confusing that I absolutely loved this book. I don't think that Miller necessarily feels that women are lesser than men. I think his attitude towards society and people on a whole reflect his idea of women as bitches and whores in general, just as most of his male friends are pathetic, self absorbed and idiotic. People suck, people are great, etc. etc. He does not limit these ideas to gender.

I think that Miller is either absolutely for you, or not at all. I think a lot of you commenting miss the mark completely with Miller. It's not about plot, its purpose isn't to be misogynistic. Not to say you can't make an argument for either, I just don't think Miller is for this type of person.

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Lal I'm currently reading it and to be honest, it made me love the book even more. It's always interesting for me to read about a deranged character's point of view.

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