Poll

DISCLAIMER. Don't try this at home. I'm not inviting anyone to do this, I merely showing how it's done so we all stop taking the avg. rating seriously.
STEP 1: Publish a succesful romance that doesn't need the approval of literary agents to become a bestseller.
STEP 2: Allow anyone to add as many editions of the book that will be counted for the average.
STEP 3: Allow your competence to open sock puppets accounts and rate the smallest editions 1-to 3 stars. Book reading isn't required, just the rating.


STEP 4: Don't say anything to Goodreads staff, they're after all against what women read the most : Self-published Romance.
STEP 5: Watch how a book goes from a healthy 4:01 avg to a 3.99 thanks to small editions.
You're welcome.
Goodreads staff allows this because they're good pals with Big big publishers, literary agents, bookstores, tv networks etc. In other words a group of people that got affected by the wave of self-published romance. Self publishing is a democratic process in which readers and authors are free to make choices , and that doesn't help corporate America.
This method is used against fantasy romance the most: Glint, Pestilence, Rhapsodic, The V Girl, Married to Magic, Den of Vipers, A touch of scarlett, it's more difficult that this method works with contemporary romance, but yet here we are.

Did not know, but am not surprised. I am usually much more suspicious of a lot of 5 star ARC. Let's face it, if it's KU, YA and there are a lot of 5 stars they all share a pattern of rainbows, stars and a phrase that should be banned, "all the feels".

I take a look at GR friends and a balance of reviews.

Vintage wrote: "Did not know, but am not surprised. I am usually much more suspicious of a lot of 5 star ARC. Let's face it, if it's KU, YA and there are a lot of 5 stars they all share a pattern of rainbows, star..."

1 stars, and 5 stars are terrible parametrs. No book is so bad that you can't find a single positive thing to say about it, and no book is so good that everyone will like it.

Like Vintage, I'm much more guided by friends' recommendations.

Ivonne wrote: "Like Vintage, I'm much more guided by friends' recommendations."

Good tactic, but for that to work you have to be very selective of whom you accept. I only accept FI's from people that read with an open mind, and review with a kind approach.

I have come to the conclusion, after 60+ years of reading (yes, I am older than most of you!) it comes down to if I enjoyed the story. After all, I can only give you my two cents. You may not like what I read. That’s fine. But, I also am finding that some folks don’t really understand what makes a good read.
Anyone can write a story. Question is: is that story worth reading. Some of the authors I have tried recently prove the point that not everyone should publish. I hate wasting time on a story that could have been nothing but a short story(no real plot/premise), yet they repeat, rehash and regurgitate until you want to stop reading yet think “surely there has to be more” when there isn’t.
So, yes, I will give you my opinion. No one says you have to care.

I like to read the negative reviews. Some negative reviews (example: THIS BOOK IS BASICALLY PORN!!!! ONE STAR!!!!) make me want to read it ;)
I believe reviews are for readers. I do not write reviews as though I am writing an article for a paper or as though I'm trying to win favor with the author or the publisher. I try to write my review like I am telling my sister about the book, which I do on the daily. :)

I will not read anything below a 3.6. Not because I think it won’t be worth reading, but because I have so many want to reads that had put restrictions on myself. I am still not going to be able to read all I have on my want to reads. If I’m really debating on what to read I take more in account than the ratings, I take want my friends and the people I follow say in account.

Ratings be damned.
It's all a matter of personal taste.
Sweetbreads, Climbing bittersweet, or just sour grapes.

Exactly.

I didn't realize this was a thing, but I do a combination of looking at the average rating and then reading a few good reviews, avg reviews, and bad reviews and make a decision based on all of those things combined.

Everyone is not going to like exactly what is trending and everyone is not going to hate what most people hate.

If I start a book and I can't get into it, then I dnf and move on. I may revisit at a later date because sometimes it's a matter of mood.

I glance at my friends' and community reviews more than taking too much notice of the average rating. This explains why some averages don't seem to match the ratings I skim through.

I look more to see what my friends say about the books and actually read reviews. I have seen so many ratings get done and they have not even read the book. But it sure explains things.

Jennifer, Just beyond normal ♑ wrote: "I look more to see what my friends say about the books and actually read reviews. I have seen so many ratings get done and they have not even read the book. But it sure explains things."

I hate when people rate a book they have not read it. I don’t care if you dislike a author,just don’t read it then.

I've known it for a long time, even before I joined Goodreads because that's something the Rotten Tomatoes critics did to The 3 Maze Runner movies. All put together the 3 movies made almost 1 billion worldwide but the last 2 couldn't even crack 100 million domestically because of the anti-YA agenda of Rotten tomatoes. I have convinced dozens to watch the movies along with me and then compare to what was written about them, and they're always shocked that critics are so dishonest. It's the same for goodreads, if I look at my friends average of KU books it's always mistmatched with the general average.

Lee at ReadWriteWish wrote: "I glance at my friends' and community reviews more than taking too much notice of the average rating. This explains why some averages don't seem to match the ratings I skim through."

Same. The average rating is useless because
1) Too many people rate books that haven't even been published
2) Assign their DNF's with a rating
3) get angry at "controversial" authors/topics and they "punish" authors and books with low ratings without reading the book
4) many open more than one account to rate the same book
5) Many use ratings as sports fans of a team: "My "team" is publishing something new this week and "the other team" is publishing something, too. Let's use my account(s) to rate everything from the other team with just 1 star."
I'm only suprised that so many don't realize how easy is to artificially change average rating.

No, not surprised, the marketing is getting dirtier the more we see behind the scene. But anyone who started basing all their choices on average rating probably saw how misleading that is. Books are about tastes, no matter what the classic books or whoever the heck are trying to tell us. Pick any book with a solid reader base and it's easy to see it has both five stars experiences as well as those who would rather forget they read that. You can never truly tell where you end up on the spectrum.

Vintage wrote: "Did not know, but am not surprised. I am usually much more suspicious of a lot of 5 star ARC. Let's face it, if it's KU, YA and there are a lot of 5 stars they all share a pattern of rainbows, star..."

K wrote: "DISCLAIMER. Don't try this at home. I'm not inviting anyone to do this, I merely showing how it's done so we all stop taking the avg. rating seriously.
STEP 1: Publish a succesful romance that does..."

Hey i use "all the feels" in many of my MM reviews because they evoke all my emotions ... just wanted to put that out there

I usually read 3 star reviews and lower first - i don't pay a lot of attention to overall. Most of my families and friends do not buy books based on goodreads ratings.

Shan ~A~ wrote: "I didn't realize this was a thing, but I do a combination of looking at the average rating and then reading a few good reviews, avg reviews, and bad reviews and make a decision based on all of thos..."

What a lovely description that sums up my feelings exactly. Get out of my head, LOL!

K wrote: "Vintage wrote: "Did not know, but am not surprised. I am usually much more suspicious of a lot of 5 star ARC. Let's face it, if it's KU, YA and there are a lot of 5 stars they all share a pattern o..."

Unfortunately I have found a book that was so poorly edited that I just could not give better than a one star evaluation and then wrote a review as to why I rated the book a one star.

However, I never pay attention to the ratings of a book to decide if I want to read it or not. I look at the synopsis and if it looks interesting I will read it. If not I don't. I have been on the fence about a few books and saw a review by someone I trusted their opinion on and chose to read them. I usually enjoyed those books as well.

Samuel wrote: "Unfortunately I have found a book that was so poorly edited that I just could not give better than a one star evaluation and then wrote a review as to why I rated the book a one star."
Good you wrote a review because that gives people a choice to ignore your rating. Poor editing doesn't mean the book is bad, for many people, including me, the characters are what make a book, I bet you I can find something good to say about that book, if you give me the title. Sometimes I download freebies that are so poorly edited that I have to reread paragraphs to get an idea of what the author was trying to say, but if the story is interesting I give it a pass. If the story is as poorly done as the editing I DNF and move on to something else. Editing complains are just another dirty trick by agents used against self published authors, because the best editors are still working for the big five.

It's Me - Yvette wrote: "Shan ~A~ wrote: "What a lovely description that sums up my feelings exactly. Get out of my head, LOL!"

Shan ~A~ wrote: "I didn't realize this was a thing, but I do a combination of looking at the average rating and then reading a few good reviews, avg reviews, and bad reviews and make a decision based on all of thos..."

When you read a negative review, do you ever check for red flags? Say, reviewers that seem to hate every book they pick, or people that never read romance but when they do is to hate on it?

Edward wrote: "Ratings be damned.
It's all a matter of personal taste.
Sweetbreads, Climbing bittersweet, or just sour grapes."

Debby wrote: "'."

Wise words

Debby wrote: "Some of the authors I have tried recently prove the point that not everyone should publish.."

Says who? Free country, free market. If people are buying a book it must be good for them. Not good for everyone because different tastes, I DNF any book that doesn't appeal to me but if they appeal to someone else, that's good. I'm just glad nobody dictates what kind of books we should read like when the literary agencies had that power. I keep mentioning them because some voted in this poll.

K wrote: "It's Me - Yvette wrote: "Shan ~A~ wrote: "I didn't realize this was a thing, but I do a combination of looking at the average rating and then reading a few good reviews, avg reviews, and bad review...


When you read a negative review, do you ever check for red flags? Say, reviewers that seem to hate every book they pick, or people that never read romance but when they do is to hate on it?"

I definitely look for anything in a review that makes me think the reader may just be a basher. I've come to realize that some people like to sabotage certain authors by writing bad reviews, especially independent authors, but I also do the same thing for good reviews, because all of those are not realistic either. There are some people who support an author no matter what or what, so I don't take anything as the gospel. The way I do it is to give myself a general view of what people are thinking, but the final job on my enjoyment is myself.

Another thing I look for in reviews are things that my have triggers or things that I'm not in the mood to read in that moment. My mood definitely would have an impact on my feelings about a book.

Shan ~A~ wrote: ". I've come to realize that some people like to sabotage certain authors by writing bad reviews, especially independent authors, but I also do the same thing for good reviews, because all of those are not realistic either. There are some people who support an author no matter what or what, so I don't take anything as the gospel. "

This.

I read a lot. For me to take the time to write a review, means the author has written something worth commenting on. Otherwise, it's the 1-5 star rating & move on. If you want to know if the author is actually good? Look at what I'm buying & reading right away. In many cases, I've read books in the past, have added them to my library, but not taken the time to go back & review. Then again, I've posted hundreds of reviews on Amazon that 'disappear' after a few months. That hasn't happened yet on GoodReads, but having managed enough large data projects for a multitude of companies, I know the odds of information being corrupted or deleted. I also understand statistics enough to know, that it is always a game leveraged to the advantage of the author, publishers or book sellers. Ultimately, when buying a book, I prefer new, indie authors to established; because a) I've read most established authors' works & b) I enjoy discovering a new author & tracking their progress/success. I am also aware of the fickle nature of great works vs. popular literature. The esoteric often flies above the heads of the masses.

As I commented on the OG list. This is why I give honest reviews and additional parameters for people to get a better feel for the book.

1. Overall (where I average up the below to get my rate out of 5)
2. Plot
3. Character development
4. Spice
5. Triggers ( if there are any, if the author listed that there was, what they are without giving away storyline, my take on them being too far or whatnot)

I prefer to read reviews that give decent details similar to what I would, but also keep in mind everyone’s reading likes are slightly different. I will say some people do not rate honestly or fairly like this and that can be why some places cushion. Though they shouldn’t do that, but not sure how to fix that.

Some reviewers rate poorly of their own fault: “I don’t usually like ‘this genre’, but gave it a shot. Definitely not for me, I can’t believe someone would write this. 1 star. Never again.”

I have seen HUNDREDS of reviews like this. Or people not liking how one character was written and also give a 1 star, but give vague on why they didn’t like them “h just seemed stupid. Didn’t like how she was written. Horrible book.”

Give more honest reviews, include as much as you can without spoilers or with, use the warnings that you are, and hopefully more will get a better sense of the book with someone who is leaving not only a decent review but also a breakdown of why. Also, I know it’s a lot! But I am also going back and rating every book I’ve ever read, with paragraphs or at least a few sentences - not rating or just throwing stars up there is not helpful for others or the author. We enjoy reading, but we also enjoy our opinions of how in love we are with our fave books, I usually discuss my reads with my husband after while I write my review. Just try to review everything to help others. Slowly doing it myself.

Andie wrote: "As I commented on the OG list. This is why I give honest reviews and additional parameters for people to get a better feel for the book.

1. Overall (where I average up the below to get my rate ou..."

I try to keep my reviews short and sometimes they are more for me to jog my memory. If I do write something negative I try to explain why, without leaving a long review. I am not very good with writing, hence why I read and not write. But I will remind anyone that if you need more information about why they gave that many stars or wondering about there comment, just ask them. I have read books recommended to me or I read summary for it books and thought it sounded interesting even though it was not my usual genre, sometimes I pleasantly surprised and other times I regret it. If I hate the book and it has nothing to do with the writing and it generally is a good book, I rate it at least three and above and explain it was written well but I just hated book personally. I value my friend’s review and like to read them after I finished the book to see what everyone’s thoughts were. This why I only pick people who don’t author or book slam, but just gives there honest opinion.

Jennifer wrote: "This why I only pick people who don’t author or book slam, but just gives there honest opinion. "

*takes a look at Jennifer's list of friends*
I don't know all the people in your list, but I'm glad you've not befriended the major trolls like E***y **y whose agenda is as clear as evian water or N**** C***** we were supposedly reading the same smutty historical book at the same time and I looked at her updates and she kept posting all those innacurate statements. I knew immediatly she didn't read the book and was just posting updates to draw attention to her review. And that troll is published author and top reviewer?WTF!!It doesn't matter, though. My honest, enthusiastic review got more likes than hers.

Petra wrote: "I've known it for a long time, even before I joined Goodreads because that's something the Rotten Tomatoes critics did to The 3 Maze Runner movies. All put together the 3 movies made almost 1 billi..."

Bwhahahahahaha, Maze Runner movies are AWESOMETACULAR, I love love Scorch trials can you guess why? uh? Anyway they were mean as always to MR but nothing like they were mean to Greatest showman and Bohemian Rhapsody, like they actually posted multiple pieces on indie wire as to why nobody should see BR!! And BR broke so many box office records they were so angry at that LOL!

*looks at 42 "it changed my stance" voters*
*bows to K-chan*
Girl your poll achieved in 7 days what my 2 years of rants haven't. I'm still amazed so many people still believe Santa is real, but your poll ....
*sings to the tune of Sonata Artica*
Did you ever know that you're my hero?
And everything I would like to be?

I knew it, that's why I use GR recommendations to create a balance. Just this week some of those fake reviewers said that is racist, cuz they know the YA eastern crowd is very into SJW's stuff and if you create bad buzz about race many of that crowd give the book star ratings without even opening it. They live in fear that the YA crowd discover that the best author in the world is a Christian mom from the southwest, not a YA author supported by the rich publishers, and to make it worse for them Harmon sensei started in self publishing and now works for amazon imprints! So of course I recommend Making faces, all the time, it's definitely not a book for everybody cuz not everybody like clean books and pro-veterans themes, but as far as quality no author can top Harmon's books. And this comes from someone who can't stand clean books, I keep returning to Harmon clean romance every year and will forever defend her against the trolls.
#HarmonArmy

My advise to anyone unsure about a new book/author?
Read the sample. Amazon allows you to get a feel for the author's style. If unsure, I take a moment to read the "Look Inside". Old habit from the days when the only way to get a book was to go to a book store. I've found some great reads that way. But it's also saved me from diving into a book that is too "Dick & Jane". I laugh when authors duplicate huge excerpts of their work in the book summaries. But then, their readership isn't always tech savvy & willing to Look Inside.

Kris wrote: "My advise to anyone unsure about a new book/author?
Read the sample. Amazon allows you to get a feel for the author's style. If unsure, I take a moment to read the "Look Inside". Old habit from the..."

Best advise ever!!!!

I really don't look at ratings when I pick a book. I am usually looking at books recommended by my favorite authors or by friends; I'll read the summary and judge the first chapter or three. If I'm not sure about something from reading the summary I will glance at some reviews to see if they mention the issue in looking for.

@Jennifer if someone's reviews make people miss out books they could possibly enjoy those reviews are SH$T!! I had a bunch of problems with recent 5 star reads like and , but I'm really careful into making it clear in my review that the first one is because I personally prefer when the heroes are darker, amoral and there's gore but for romance readers gore is a huge NO so hopefully they'll give a chance to four horsemen exactly because it isn't as dark as the other books. And Waking Olivia I had the usual complains I always have with contemporary angsty stuff, but for anyone who likes that the book deserves nothing less than 5 stars cuz it's a well-written page turner.

Blue wrote: "I really don't look at ratings when I pick a book. I am usually looking at books recommended by my favorite authors or by friends; I'll read the summary and judge the first chapter or three. If I'm..."

Authors sometimes band together if they have met in person, no matter how poorly written a book is, they'll say nice things about their friends' new releases. Debut indie authors aren't part of writing circles yet so they don't get reviews from established authors, if anything they can get bad reviews from them. I don't trust authors reviews at all.

AℳY♔Queen of Fat cats♔ 민윤기's fiancée♔Anti-YA books wrote: "@Jennifer if someone's reviews make people miss out books they could possibly enjoy those reviews are SH$T!! I had a bunch of problems with recent 5 star reads like and [..."

I agree with everything you said.

Kris wrote: "My advise to anyone unsure about a new book/author?
Read the sample. Amazon allows you to get a feel for the author's style. If unsure, I take a moment to read the "Look Inside". Old habit from the days when the only way to get a book was to go to a book store. I've found some great reads that way. But it's also saved me from diving into a book that is too "Dick & Jane". I laugh when authors duplicate huge excerpts of their work in the book summaries. But then, their readership isn't always tech savvy & willing to Look Inside."
I couldn't agree more.

AℳY♔Queen of Fat cats♔ 민윤기's fiancée♔Anti-YA books wrote: "@Jennifer if someone's reviews make people miss out books they could possibly enjoy those reviews are SH$T!! I had a bunch of problems with recent 5 star reads like and [..."

Amen! Completely agree. Most of time I read the reviews after reading the book. It interesting to see everyone’s take on the book.

I'm going to ask everyone to be careful how you phrase your posts. So far we have kept civilized arguments and for the sake of everyone, I hope things remain this way. Your posts are all polite, but try not to lean into pointing fingers. Literary agencies have every right to be part of the Goodreads community, and I don't think the majority of them are into this kind of fraud, if anything debut authors from literary agencies might be getting the short end of the stick because they can't change paths as quickly as indie authors. Besides they have no control over their price.
On the other hand, I've seen romance authors supporting each other, I think the best ones are focused in their writing and not into dirty marketing tricks.
Goodreads staff is probably overworked as it is, this page grew beyond their initial expectations. If there's something that is bothering about how one employee is using its priviliges please refer to the help section first. If they don't listen, we can initiate another discussion about it, but let's try the official way first.
There'll always be dishonest members in every group of people, but I hope everybody understands that a few dishonest people don't represent the entire body of literary agencies, romance authors, and Goodreads staff.
This is a very interesting discussion and I thank everyone that contributed to it, just keep in mind that this group is open to everyone: Readers, Writers, Agents, Editors, Promoters, Bloggers, Booktubers, Booktour hosts.

AℳY♔Queen of Fat cats♔ 민윤기's fiancée♔Anti-YA books wrote: "I knew it, that's why I use GR recommendations to create a balance. Just this week some of those fake reviewers said that is racist, cuz they know the YA eastern c..."

There's a section in this group: Fact checking lounge. Feel free to post exctracts of the book to back up your statements. Make sure you add the book so the discussion will appear on the reviews page.

Kris wrote: "My advise to anyone unsure about a new book/author?
Read the sample. Amazon allows you to get a feel for the author's style. If unsure, I take a moment to read the "Look Inside". Old habit from the..."
I couldn't agree more.

I pretty much disregard Amazon ratings -- so many puppet accounts there. On GR, if there are a ton of ratings it helps dilute the ones that are the author's mom or gave it one star because the author doesn't like dogs and that kind of stuff. That's when I'll take a rating into consideration. But a few well-reasoned reviews are much more meaningful.