Kalliope’s Comments (group member since Aug 28, 2018)

Kalliope’s comments from the Ovid's Metamorphoses and Further Metamorphoses group.

Peter wrote: "Being German I am reading the Met in my mother tongue in a bilingual edition translated in prose by Michael von Albrecht. I wonder whether there are other members in this discussion, who are readin..."

Welcome Peter... Some people, at least Roman Clodia and Robert, are reading it in Latin too. I presume your bilingual edition is Latin + German.

I am reading two editions, (may be three), one in English (prose) and one in French (verse).

Roman Clodia wrote: "... and one of the most influential reworkings of the Apollo/Daphne story is Petrarch's use of it as the foundational myth of his sonnet sequence, the Canzoniere.

T..."


Fascinating.. I had not thought of Petrarch's Laura coinciding with the Daphne story. I used to have a beautiful laurel tree which I named Daphne (!).

There is also the Sonnet by the soldier-poet Garcilaso de la Vega (1498-1536). It may interest Roman Clodia that Garcilaso spent time in Naples, and it was under his initiative that Castiglione's Il Libro del Cortegiano was translated into Spanish in 1534.

A Dafne ya los brazos le crecían,
y en luengos ramos vueltos se mostraba;
en verdes hojas vi que se tornaban
los cabellos que el oro escurecían.

De áspera corteza se cubrían
los tiernos miembros, que aún bullendo estaban:
los blancos pies en tierra se hincaban,
y en torcidas raíces se volvían.

Aquel que fue la causa de tal daño,
a fuerza de llorar, crecer hacía
este árbol que con lágrimas regaba.

¡Oh miserable estado! ¡oh mal tamaño!
¡Que con llorarla crezca cada día
la causa y la razón porque lloraba!

A few members in the Group can read Spanish.

Fionnuala wrote: "Thanks for those posts and images, Roger. That last one reminds me of an art installation I once saw in Alsace in France. They were called Les Arborigenes, and they were figures made from living ve..."

Both beautiful and spooky (like Ovid's stories), Fionnuala.

Roger wrote: "SEDUCTIONS/RAPES

I had not realize that we would plunge into the various seduction (or more often rape) stories quite so soon. Yet here, at the end of Book I, we get three of them back to back. Be..."


I was also very surprised, Roger, to meet these stories so early on, so soon after the Chaos/Origins and the Deluge.

By coincidence, I was attending today a lecture at the Prado museum, part of a cycle on "Fantasy in Art", in which we were shown a mosaic of Daphne and Apollo..

I guess it is one of the most popular myths.




And the Io story reminded me of my favourite Correggio (1532), which I saw recently in Vienna:

Iset wrote: "I found the 'Golden Age' description quite fascinating. Some of it is obviously fantastical, such as the notion that it was always springtime, but a lot of other details describe the palaeolithic q..."

I very much appreciated your post, Iset... It helps in understanding how the real pre- and historical processes filtered somewhat parallely into the mythical accounts of various cultures.

Some paintings came to mind when the Milky Way is mentioned, although at least this section does not deal with the origins of the Way. It is just the path the the gods follow up in the Heavens.

Rubens's composition on the 'Origins of the Milky Way' came to my mind immediately.



From around 1637, it was commissioned by the King of Spain, Philip IV, for decoration of his hunting lodge 'Torre de la Parada'. Now in the Prado.

But then there is the earlier Tintoretto version from 1575. Now in the London National Gallery although it may have been sent to the current exhibition in Venice.

Roger wrote: "

Hendrik Goltzius, plate 1 from 1589 Dutc..."

These are great, Roger... I have been somewhat engaged with Goltzius lately, so I have enjoyed your choice.

Love the opening page of the Garth/Dryden edition.

I did not know about Aivazovsky.

David wrote: "In the other famous Metamorphoses, Apuleius uses ekphrasis in describing the sculptures in an atrium in his romance. This book is also known as The Golden Ass. His term, “ars aemula naturae veritati similes explicuit” (2.4, art imitating nature as a faithful copy) reveals the Roman passion of art imitating life. Roman painting at this time strove to recreate life in art, something that would not surface until the Renaissance..."

Yes, David. I've read The Golden Ass a few years ago but I had been thinking that I may revisit it after the Met.

Yes, I was recently at a lecture on the element of 'Fantasy' in Ancient Egypt and although their theory of Creation was not specifically discussed, their conception of their Cosmos (with the differentiated place of where the common mortals and the kings went after death) was one of the points elaborated. As their theory of Creation comes from the same texts as those of their Cosmos, it was indirectly referred to.


Here is some material.

https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhi...

Roger wrote: "How lovely, Kalliope! I know the inside of the triptych well enough, of course, but if I have looked at the outside, it was only to forget it immediately. We should add some other creations to the ..."

Yes, it is often not reproduced. Now the triptych has been put on an 'island' somewhat off the wall with the idea that people can see the outside covers, although this still makes the guards somewhat uneasy when one walks behind the 'island'. Before the outer wings were too close to the wall to be able to admire well these amazing half pictures.

Ce Ce wrote: Thank you to Kalliope for your invitation. I am one of the baggage-less. A fresh, clean and curious slate! ..."


Welcome, Cece.

And welcome, Barbara.

I think this will be a terrific read for getting somewhat acquainted with the Classical myths.

Reading the section of the ordering of the world out of Chaos and possible paintings. The outside wings of Bosch's triptych of The Garden of Earthly Delights, shows a daunting round world with strange formations. No animals and certainly no humans yet.

Granted, Bosch's is a Christian world with a god in the left upper corner (when closed), but he is very small and somewhat isolated.

Elena wrote: "Even better: "Ovid and the Metamorphoses of Modern Art from Botticelli to Picasso" by Paul Barolsky"

Elena, I have just ordered the Barolsky. Thank you!!

Elena wrote: "I checked in with some poets about Ekphrasis, where the poet describes a work of art (Ovid and Homer do this all the time), and I asked what the word is for the other direction, so art that describ..."

Yes, Ekphrasis originally refers to the written description of an image.

I was just reading about this a couple of days ago in a catalogue from the Prado Museum.

The 'first' known ekphrasis is in the Iliad (Book 18), in the description of Achilles's shield. The Shield acts as a canvas on which a complex image can be seen.


Apart from Wiki, below is a partly blocked article on this.

https://study.com/academy/lesson/shie...


As the maker of the shield, with its images, was Hephaestus, painters have later often equated their own artistic abilities with those of the divine blacksmith.

A good companion for the Mythologies would be:

Mythology: Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes.

There is also Greek Gods and Heroes.

The Hamilton is shorter and I found it put everything in order (out of Chaos !!).. The Graves goes deeper into the various elements.

I will add them to the Group Shelves.

Thank you, Elena, for the book references. I have read one book by Stoichita and enjoyed his writing. I will add these to the Bookshelf in the group.

Elena wrote: "Thank you for inviting me to this group! I'm an archivist and obsessed with original documents. What is the best book on the surviving manuscripts of Ovid? I gather that there is nothing surviving ..."

Elena, I am glad you accepted. Your question can best be answered by someone who will tackle an edition in Latin. May be RC.

Peter wrote: "Salvete. I got aware of this group and had the courage to join it, as some of my most revered Goodreads friends had already joined it before. My appreciation for the Metamophoses stems from highsch..."


Good to see you here, Peter. Please accept our excuses for not getting an invitation, but it is an open Group so anyone can join.

Glad you found it.

I think she can join on her own. It is a public group. Otherwise ask her to befriend me and then I can send her an invitation.

Wonderful!!

Steve wrote: "sorry...."

Nothing to be sorry for, Steve. We had not made it clear at the beginning.

We were giving about a month for people to decide whether to join, finish other readings, and get their copies.

But I am delighted that the discussion is getting ready for a good start...