MJD’s Comments (group member since Aug 18, 2018)

MJD’s comments from the Secular Sangha: A Secular Buddhist Group group.

Videos that compliment the book's content:

"EASTERN PHILOSOPHY: Wu Wei" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvZi7...

"EASTERN PHILOSOPHY - The Love of Rocks" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kaKY...

Videos that compliment the book's content:

"EASTERN PHILOSOPHY - Sen no Rikyu" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpE-X...

"HISTORY OF IDEAS - Wabi-sabi" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmHLY...

Use this thread to discuss The Book of Tea by Kakuzō Okakura.

Recently completed Maxims and Reflections by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

It contains interesting little sayings such as the following [copy and pasted from http://www.gutenberg.org/files/33670/...

192 "The whole art of living consists in giving up existence in order to exist."

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[Note: In the TRANSLATOR'S PREFACE the translator gives context for the above quote, fitting it into a moral system. The relevant paragraph is posted below.]

" A uniform activity with a moral aim—that, in Goethe's view, is the highest we can achieve in life. "Character in matters great and small consists," he says, "in a man steadily pursuing the things of which he feels himself capable." It is the gospel of work: our endeavour must be to realise our best self in deed and action; to strive until our personality attains, in Aristotle's word, its entelechy; its full development. By this alone can we resolve all the doubts and hesitations and conflicts within that undermine and destroy the soul. "Try to do your duty, and you will know at once what you are worth." And with all our doing, what should be the goal of our activity? In no wise our own self, our own weal. "A man is happy only when he delights in the good-will of others," and we must of a truth "give up existence in order to exist"; we must never suppose that happiness is identical with personal welfare. In the moral sphere we need, as Kant taught, a categorical imperative; but, says Goethe, that is not the end of the matter; it is only the beginning. We must widen our conception of duty and recognise a perfect morality only "where a man loves what he commands himself to do." "Voluntary dependence is the best state, and how should that be possible without love?" And just in the same sense Goethe refuses to regard all self-denial as virtuous, but only the self-denial that leads to some useful end. All other forms of it are immoral, since they stunt and cramp the free development of what is best in us—the desire, namely, to deal effectively with our present life, and make the most and fairest of it. "

Here are some interesting Goodreads quotes from the author, several of which seemed to be taken from this book: https://www.goodreads.com/author/quot...

Piyangie wrote: "John wrote: "I can say that I'm gaining the desire to meditate. I enjoy the time when I get to sit down and relax, although I'm only getting 4-6 minute sessions (which I realize is sufficient and s..."

I agree Piyangie. Also, I think that the Theravada sect's conception of meditation and it's benefits can be useful in a secular context. For instance, I think that the group book Food for the Heart: The Collected Teachings of Ajahn Chah has plenty of interesting concepts that one can adopt without adopting the non-secular components such as reincarnation.

Here is a short video of Ajahn Chah speaking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exb-9...

[note: I acknowledge that the concept of the illusory of the self seems to be purely wrapped up in non-secular components of Buddhism, but I think that the conception of "the self is an illusion" that is advocated for by [author:Sam Harris|16593] is easily transferable to a secular philosophy. While Harris writes about this in the group book Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion, I do think that he explained the concept and the benefits for understanding it well in the following two videos as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIXEb... and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fajfk...

John wrote: "I can say that I'm gaining the desire to meditate. I enjoy the time when I get to sit down and relax, although I'm only getting 4-6 minute sessions (which I realize is sufficient and sometimes reco..."

While I do think that there are positive benefits that go along with mindfulness by itself (stress reduction, etc.), for me I think that the best benefits of mindfulness are those that are generated from combining meditation practice with Buddhist philosophy.

For example, I think that the practice of allowing thoughts to come and go while focusing on the breath is good practice for not clinging to thoughts of anger (i.e. by allow angry thoughts to come and go) as advocated by the first chapter of Wisdom of the Buddha: The Unabridged Dhammapada :

“‘He insulted me,
hit me,
beat me,
robbed me’
–for those who brood on this,
hostility isn’t stilled.

He insulted me,
hit me,
beat me,
robbed me’–
for those who don’t brood on this,
hostility is stilled.”


For me, I think that the meditation and philosophy working in tandem helps cultivate a sense of equanimity.

I liked his interpretation of Stoic philosophy in the first book of the first volume, which can be found on pages 134-137 on this online doc.: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/38427...

His interpretation of it reminded me of the Buddhist conception of “desire.” Relevant clips are posted below (though I do want to point out that the message of the following quotations work better in the context of what is said on pages 134-137 as a whole).

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“Therefore Antisthenes says: îµ¹ ºƒ±Ã¸±¹ ½øŽ, · ²£ø«ø½ (aut mentem parandam, aut laqueum. Plut. de stoic. repugn., c. 14), i.e., life is so full of troubles and vexations, that one must either rise above it by means of corrected thoughts, or leave it. It was seen that want and suffering did not directly and of necessity spring from not having, but from desiring to have and not having; that therefore this desire to have is the necessary condition under which alone it becomes a privation not to have and begets pain…”

“It followed from all this that happiness always depends upon the proportion between our claims and what we receive… Therefore Chrysippus says: ¥µ¹ ¶Ã½ º±ƒ½ µº¿µ¹£¹±½ ƒ…½ ÆÅõ¹ Ãź²±¹½ø½ƒ…½ (Stob. Ecl., L. ii. c. 7, p. 134), that is, one ought to live with a due knowledge of the transitory nature of the things of the world…”

“Thus also every keen pleasure is an error and an illusion, for no attained wish can give lasting satisfaction; and, moreover, every possession and every happiness is but lent by chance for an uncertain time, and may therefore be demanded back the next hour. All pain rests on the passing away of such an illusion; thus both arise from defective knowledge; the wise man therefore holds himself equally aloof from joy and sorrow, and no event disturbs his ±ƒ±£±æ¹±.”

Recently completed A History of Mediaeval Jewish Philosophy. I thought that it was very interesting how the philosophy of Plato, Aristotle, and others were used in reading the Bible among a number of Jewish thinkers.

I think that the idea of reading the Bible in this context has a lot to offer to those interested in reading Buddhist text. That is, I think that applying concepts outside of Buddhist thought can help complement and expand upon Buddhism in a way that being tunnel visioned about thing can"t

I recently read Beyond Good and Evil by Friedrich Nietzsche, in which the philosophy of Schopenhauer is critiqued. I found it to be an interesting quick read, and think that it adds interesting insights to this book.

I think that it is hard to read this book without having a decent knowledge of the works of Kant, and having read three of Kant's works myself ( Critique of Pure Reason, Prolegomena to Any Future Metaphysics, and Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals ) I think that this video covers his thinking pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mltfz...

I liked the following parts from the book using the properties of water as allegory for how one should conduct themselves (copy and pasted from https://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taot... ). I think that they speak to the value of humility, flexibility, patience, and other similar traits that could be interpreted as forms of "weakness."

_______________________________________________________
8
"The highest excellence is like (that of) water. The excellence
of water appears in its benefiting all things, and in its occupying,
without striving (to the contrary), the low place which all men
dislike. Hence (its way) is near to (that of) the Tao.

The excellence of a residence is in (the suitability of) the place;
that of the mind is in abysmal stillness; that of associations is in
their being with the virtuous; that of government is in its securing
good order; that of (the conduct of) affairs is in its ability; and
that of (the initiation of) any movement is in its timeliness.

And when (one with the highest excellence) does not wrangle (about his low position), no one finds fault with him."


66
"That whereby the rivers and seas are able to receive the homage
and tribute of all the valley streams, is their skill in being lower
than they;--it is thus that they are the kings of them all. So it is
that the sage (ruler), wishing to be above men, puts himself by his
words below them, and, wishing to be before them, places his person behind them.

In this way though he has his place above them, men do not feel his weight, nor though he has his place before them, do they feel it an injury to them.

Therefore all in the world delight to exalt him and do not weary of
him. Because he does not strive, no one finds it possible to strive
with him."


78
"There is nothing in the world more soft and weak than water,
and yet for attacking things that are firm and strong there is nothing that can take precedence of it;--for there is nothing (so effectual) for which it can be changed.

Every one in the world knows that the soft overcomes the hard, and the weak the strong, but no one is able to carry it out in practice.

Therefore a sage has said,
'He who accepts his state's reproach,
Is hailed therefore its altars' lord;
To him who bears men's direful woes
They all the name of King accord.'

Words that are strictly true seem to be paradoxical."

I found the following video about Cioran informative and interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMOM3...

Here are some good quotes from the book: https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes...

Piyangie wrote: "Presently reading The Republic by Plato. It is my first philosophical reading experience."

If you end up liking that book I would recommend the group book The Philosophy of Desire in the Buddhist Pali Canon (available as a free kindle download). Among other things, the book compares the conception of desire in Plato's works with the conception of desire in the Pali Canon (note: most of the Plato content is in the first chapter).

I liked the following defense of parsing out what is true and false from the book:

“It has often been said that we ought to follow the truth even though no utility can be seen in it, because it may have indirect utility which may appear when it is least expected; and I would add to this, that we ought to be just as anxious to discover and to root out all error even when no harm is anticipated from it, because its mischief may be very indirect, and may appear when we do not expect it, for all error has poison at its heart.”

Piyangie wrote: "Hi MJD! Thanks for sharing the link. I read the article and yes it has summed up well the belief and practice of Buddhist of Theravada sect. We are guided by "Tripitaka"."

Thanks for letting me know.

Piyangie wrote: "Hi all! I'm Piyangie and am a Buddhist of Theravada sect. I'm really glad to join a non-religious group interested in Buddhist teaching. Thank you for the invitation MJD."

Since you are a Buddhist of the Theravada sect I want to see what you think of the following description of Theravada from an organization linked with the author of the group book Mindfulness in Plain English : https://bhavanasociety.org/about-ther...

Here is the website for an organization that the author of the book is connected with: https://bhavanasociety.org/

John wrote: "I finished this last night. As a meditation guide, I found it exactly as the author would describe it..."meditation for jerks". I don't consider myself a jerk. I've always felt slightly more in tun..."

Judging from your comment I think that you may like the group book Mindfulness in Plain English by Henepola Gunaratana.