Lin’s Comments (group member since May 06, 2013)

Lin’s comments from the Beta Reader Group group.

There appears to be two beta reader groups now - no idea why. Some betas will read unfinished work, others prefer it to be as complete as you can get it. Generally it's hard to give complete feedback especially regarding plot and characters if you only see one section or a long time between sections.

I would say those comments added to the discussion by giving another view on the reaction strongly written characters receive.

Sorry, hit wrong button on phone! I've read many stories where things happen and the main character drifts along reacting to them. If he/she doesn't seem to care, why should I?

On the other hand, vivid description that includes the character's interpretation, and a feeling a character really cares about something, will lift those characters off the page. Strong writing will let me feel what the character feels.

A bit of mystery doesn't go amiss, either - I don't need to know what he/she wants or why he/she wants it, I just need to feel the passion.

A big thing for me is that the character cares about something. I've read many

Good points but I would disagree with a couple - POV and tenses may be a matter of style and preference, but they may also be a sign of an inexperienced writer, when used inconsistently/Inappropriately, and I would certainly comment in that case. This is where writing experience can help - sometimes a beta reader can sense something is amiss but it might take someone with more technical knowledge to explain exactly what.
I've read enough different styles to accept a wide range. I certainly wouldn't try to impose a writing style on an author, but I might suggest ways of strengthening their style.

A beta reader can obviously comment on the writing and whether the story holds interest just from a section, but from experience it's much harder to get a sense of the overall story unless you can plough through it fairly quickly. And as a writer I've learned that I can get halfway through a project and have second thoughts about the approach, so it's really better to get through a complete draft and at least one full self-edit before handing over. Otherwise the job for the reader is that much harder and feedback therefore less useful.

Ah - I assume you mean 39,918 words? What historical knowledge does any beta reader need? Do they need to be checking for accuracy or just storyline?

What advice do authors have for their beta readers?

I would suggest for a start:
Always remember I have lived with this story for a long time, and put in a lot of effort. Treat me kindly!

Try to give me an honest reaction - if you didn't like a section, can you explain why? Can you explain why that action seemed wrong? Why did that bit surprise/bore you?

I know I still have work to do on this, which is why I'm asking for beta. I don't need every sentence pulled apart and every error marked - that's for later on.

Any more?

I thought it might be useful to collect general comments/guidance to authors seeking to use a beta reader.

I would suggest:
Please bear in mind that a beta reader is reading to help you out. You should be submitting an up to date draft as much as possible, as the more effort you have put into editing already the easier it is to read, but be aware that there may still be major issues that you are too close to see. This means that you need to be prepared to think carefully about what the beta reader says.

Always remember that it's your story - no-one says you have to take the beta's advice, but if you want others to enjoy your story (and pay you for it!) then it's sensible to consider any feedback given.

In the same way, you might choose to use more than one beta reader - that way you get a selection of opinions. If they all say the same thing then that's something you really need to consider. Issues are one thing, however - how you solve them is up to you.

One piece of advice I've seen is that if a beta reader tells you there's a problem with a section, then they're probably right. If they try to tell you how to fix that problem, then be very wary of their suggestions.

If you find a good beta reader, treat them well! Keep a note of their details, because you might need them again.

Anyone else want to join in? I'll set up a thread for Dear Beta Reader too, so we can see both sides :)

As part of accepting work for beta I now ask writers what their writing experience is and what they intend to do with their work. This helps deal with any mismatch of expectations.

I always take reviews with a pinch of salt, whether 5 star or 1 star; they just provide suggestions as to strengths and weaknesses, and I will often read reviews at both ends of the scale to get an overall picture before reading. As a beta reader, we should generally focus on our own reaction to the story. Each reader brings something different to the book, and may well react to different things, and it can also be difficult to tell between style that appears to hinder reading but is deliberate and lack of writing experience, so my first question when I hit problems is what the author is trying to do. Unless I'm actually editing, I would focus on what seems to be the problem rather than actively seeking to put forward a solution.

I also have a policy of not discussing authors' work with others in any identifiable way. It's safer and friendlier to all that way :)

A lot of sense in this thread! I, too, give detailed feedback, but I find I have to tailor it to the author - some books I beta are very close to finished and I have few structural issues to comment on. Others can be lacking in several areas, and it's my job then to tactfully suggest to the author what needs doing.

I think there's too much temptation these days for authors to publish too early, before they've polished off their novel or even, in extreme cases, before they've honed their writing skills.

If you're serious about wanting to publish then please do seek beta readers, and be willing to listen to what they have to say, well before planning your launch party, and professional editing/proofreading is also recommended. Self publishing means that the author bears the costs, not that the author does it on the cheap.

Sure, some writers can get away with going totally DIY/using friends and family, but far too many let themselves and their readers down.

When giving feedback, there's also a need to distinguish between "this is badly written", "this didn't work for me" and "this is what you need to do". I try to explain what I see as the weaknesses, not necessarily to tell the author what they need to do to fix it, although I'm always willing to discuss a project after beta. In fact, I've been lucky - there have been very few authors who have totally ignored feedback. Most at least say thank you, and many will discuss points raised/ask questions etc.

Janet I'm sorry you had such a bad experience as a beta reader.

Hi Tracey, I've got one, maybe two paid reads on my list and I'm trying to do one a week. I've also got some free ones to clear but pressure of time and paid work means that in future I can only do samples - 5k words or so - for free once I've done those.

D.M. - a written testimonial would be brilliant - there's no facility for you to add it to the website yourself at the moment, but I'd be happy to post it if you send by email.

Pro writer is online and offers a free version for shorter chunks - good for getting an idea of issues.

I have seen a distinction made between alpha and beta readers, where alpha reading is on a raw draft, to deal with major plot holes and pacing issues etc, while beta reading is much closer to the end. Either - or both - should be done before professional editing, which is why I don't point out all typos/errors while beta reading, but the more editing you've been able to do by yourself, the easier the manuscript will flow, making it an easier (and therefore probably quicker) beta read. If I have to train myself to ignore commas, or I have to struggle with badly worded sentences, it slows me down. A more polished manuscript may also reduce the cost of editing.
Realistically, I think most beta readers will move naturally between alpha and beta type reading depending on the quality of the manuscript.
Expecting a friend/relative to beta read can be dodgy ground, depending on their experience and ability to be totally honest and objective. Expecting them to edit/proofread is not usually a good idea, unless they - or you - are already very experienced.

Thanks D.M. - may I use your comments as part of my testimonials collection please?
Sarah - I'd be happy to read the first few chapters of your book, but at the moment I'm booked right up - I've decided I need to be much more careful about offering free betas as they take up a lot of time that I should be using to earn money. If you want a sample read, or you want to use the paid service for a full read, then by all means contact me through my website, but bear in mind that I must clear these other projects first.

By the time I've read a manuscript I have a good idea how much help an author needs and can offer assistance accordingly. If I feel I am unable to help I will suggest an alternative course of action.

Thanks for the interest - I'm afraid that I've already got reads booked into January, unless you want to use the paid service, which I can push through faster - £25 via paypal, payable at the end.

I wrote a blog post explaining the process I use when I beta read.
http://www.coinlea.co.uk/how-do-i-beta/

230k? Wow, that's big! I'd be happy to take a look but I have a few projects on the go at the moment and would be unlikely to be able to even start looking at it within the next month. Feel free to send it to my email though - details on my website, link above :)