Chelsea’s Comments (group member since Jun 08, 2015)

Chelsea’s comments from the Nothing But Reading Challenges group.

Questions Day 6 Feb 17
Violet The Morning After to Violet March 18
Pages 235 to 296

22) Were you surprised at the different parental reactions to Violet & Finch being out all night? Were you surprised at Finch's dad being called & Finch's reaction to his dad's violence?
I don't think either set of parents' reactions were surprising. Of course Violet's parents would flip, and of course Finch's parents would have an awkward, disjointed response. But I'm glad that Finch stood up to his dad.

23) What do you think about Violet's plan for Germ and what does it signify that it seems to be such a collaborative publication?
I think it's a great idea for her. It's something that can keep her mind busy and help her move forward in her grieving process. And the fact that she's inviting others shows that she's finally opening up after her sister's death and is willing to let people in again.

24) Why do you think Finch reacted the way he did to potentially being labeled/diagnosed as bipolar?
I think part of it is that he has struggled with labels at school for awhile, but part of it is the fear that there may be something clinically wrong with him that he has no control over. Once you're diagnosed, you feel powerless, so he probably wants to avoid that feeling.

25) What did you think about Amanda and Finch being at the same suicide support group? Do you look at Amanda's character any differently after this revelation?
Actually, I don't think it's that surprising at all that a popular girl has similar problems. Being popular has its own pressures and stress points. Besides, she always seemed really negative, which is indicative of personal problems.

26) If you haven't finished the book, any predictions for the end? Or if you have, with a simple yes or no so not to give anything away, were your predictions for the end correct?
I have not finished, and I'm suspecting that Finch may commit suicide. I really really don't want him to, but at the current reading point he is going downhill quickly. And he said that if he commits to committing suicide, he will make sure that it's final. So that's not a good sign.

Finch Days 23,24,35 - Finch The Day Of
Pages 171-234

16. What do you think of Finch's coming and going? He is out of school for a week and no one seems to think this is abnormal. If you had a friend who disappeared for days and weeks at at time do you think you would react like Violet, a little worried and unsure, or like Brenda and Charlie, not concerned because this is just like Finch?
I think it's very odd that the school isn't stepping in and doing something about truancy, because he already missed several weeks the previous semester. No one at my high school would have gotten away with that without a doctor's note. And I would definitely be concerned about Finch if he was my friend. Even if I knew he disappeared a lot, I would still want to know he was ok.

17. In this section we see the differences between Violet and Finch's home life. I am sure both of them are loved by their families. However, they are both treated in different ways. When Finch shows up at home having obviously gotten into a fight it seems as if no one notices enough to be concerned. When Violet cuts class her parents are upset and her mother tries to connect with her. How much of an impact do you think this has on them?
I think that parents and home-life have huge impacts on everyone, even if they don't realize it. We are shaped as people by our parents, either by imitating them or rebelling against them. What we lack in the home, we seek outside of it.

18. At one point during this section, Violet stops crossing off the days on her calendar and 'returns' her sister's glasses. What do you think this signifies?
I think it shows that she is moving forward in her stages of grief. She is coming back to herself and realizing that there are still things to live for and be happy about.

19. After Finch meets Violet's parents and they are getting ready to leave Violet's house Violet is angry with Finch thinking that he is a lie. When she questions him, he replies, "Sometimes, Ultraviolet, things feel true to us even if they're not." What do you think he meant by that and how does that tell you more about who he views himself as?
I think he means that sometimes you're not sure what the truth is about yourself and that sometimes you change or adapt. He is trying to make sure he doesn't "go to sleep" again, which may mean changing who he is. It's not a ruse or an act, but an effort to "find himself."

20. When Violet and Finch spend the day at the Blue Hole, Finch dives down so far he almost doesn't make it back up. It seems like if Violet wasn't there he may have continued swimming all the way down until he couldn't get back up. When he was trying to reach the surface he kept telling Violet he was sorry in his head. Do you think this is a turning point for him? That maybe he found someone to help him find a way out of his depressions?
Violet is definitely an anchor for him, in that she reminds him that he has someone who cares whether he lives or dies. I think he really believes that no one would miss him, but now Violet holds him accountable. So, yes, I think it's an important moment for him and his future.

21. The relationship between Violet and Finch has grown so much since they were both standing on the ledge of the bell tower. Do you think the relationship is realistic? Who do you think is helping who more? Do you think with both of their mental issues their relationship can last?
At the beginning, the chemistry felt extremely forced, especially because I didn't feel like Violet's character was being fleshed out properly in the story. But her dialogue sounds more honest and open now, so the chemistry flows more smoothly. And they are finally both being honest about how important the other person is to them. I do think their relationship can last, but not without its bumps along the way.

Questions Day 3

9. Finch makes a list of how to stay awake. It is:
1) Run 2)Write any thoughts 3)Accept any thoughts 4) Surround yourself with water 5) Plan 6) Drive anywhere and everywhere 7) Play guitar 8) Organize - your room, your thoughts 9) Do whatever you need to to remind yourself that you are here and you have a say and 10) Violet (Relationships). Is there something on this list that speaks to you? What would you do to "stay awake"?
I think writing is definitely a good idea; I forget to write regularly, but it's cathartic. Driving is very calming. I also like playing solitaire or coloring because it keeps me just busy enough to not think about negative things.

10. Violet's Day count changes from graduation to freedom. So you think there is any significance to the change?
I guess the day has changed more from a significant day in her life to a feeling she wants to have.

11. Would you want to be friends with either Finch or Violet? Why or why not?
Finch seems fun, but maybe exhausting:) Violet seems unreliable as a friend, at least for now.

12. At the bookmobile, Violet said she forgot to leave something behind. Finch said he did. What did he leave behind? His secret? His money? Did Violet leave behind some of her fears?
I think he mostly meant the money. But I think they're both opening up and leaving more fears behind as they spend more time together.

13. What do you think about the quote "growing out of a label is hard"?
People expect you to never change, so when you do, they have a hard time accepting it. So you either have to be stubborn and stick with it until they accept you, or you bend to meet their expectations.

14. The Bartlet Dirt seems like an uncontrolled and cruel forum for high school verbal bullying. I wonder why the teachers allow the students to write cruel things. Any comments?
Yeah, I wondered about that. My friends and I never experienced any bullying in school at all (and no, we were definitely not the popular ones), so I don't think that kind of thing would have been tolerated. Sometimes people said shitty things on Myspace and Facebook, but it never went farther than that.

15. What do you think about Decka's mean word project. I thought it was such a sweet thing, and I loved it when he left words on her pillow. I know life isn't perfect, but I found this to be very encouraging.
My first gut reaction was, "Omg, stop damaging books!" But if that's what she needs to feel better, it's not the end of the world- books can be replaced. And it's an interesting therapy concept. That was definitely a good "big brother" moment.

15. And finally
Before I die I want to....... develop the discipline and fortitude to accomplish my goals.

13 Feb 2016 Discussion Questions Finch Day 7 of the Awake - Violet 148 days till graduation page 56-115

5. The author alternates between the perspectives of Finch and Violet, each of them is counting the days go by, but in different ways. What does this difference say about the characters?
Violet is pretty obviously just trying to make it through, feeling like she's drowning because of the hole her sister's death made in her life. She doesn't feel like she has anything to look forward to. But Finch makes an effort to be aware and adventurous during his "awake" days, so he is counting towards an optimistic future.

6. I liked when Finch and Violet were quoting Virginia Woolf to each other. I think the quotes they choose told a lot about them. My favorite was ”My brain is to me the most unaccountable of machinery always buzzing, humming, soaring roaring diving and then buried in mud. And why? What’s this passion for” I thought it describes Finch very well in his “Awake” period. Do you have a favorite of these quotes and why?
Well, for one thing, I was annoyed by the quotes because I feel like real teenagers wouldn't do that, or if they did, not with Virginia Woolf, but with someone more obvious or cliché. But yes, that quote does seem to fit Finch well.
If I had to pick, I would choose: "Arrange whatever pieces come your way." It reminds you to make the most out of what life gives you.

7. ”When we are in the act of wandering, we need to be present, not watching it through a lens.” I like this quote, it’s what I do when I go on vacation, I never take a lot of pictures. I like to take in the scenery or enjoy art and architecture. What do you do, take a lot of pictures or sit and watch?
I think it depends where I'm going. But I usually fit somewhere in the middle, taking pictures of a few important things as keepsakes and just observing for the rest.

8. Why does Violet keep wearing her sisters glasses when they are ugly and she doesn’t need them?
Because she misses her and wishes she could know what Eleanor would think about what's going on in her life.

Other thoughts
I'm a little annoyed with Finch wanting to don different personalities rather than just be himself, and annoyed with Violet for being both bland and bitchy. And the chemistry between them feels forced.
Any thoughts on that?

Feb 12
Start - Violet 153 days till graduation
Pages 1-55

1. Jennifer Niven writes "nonfiction and fiction, both historical and contemporary, adult and YA". Have you read any of her books before? At 47 years old do you think she does a credible job with the first person POV for Finch and Violet?
I have never read anything by her before, but I'm ok with her writing so far.

2. Do you like our two main characters so far?
Yes, Finch seems really likable and fun despite what problems he has. I admire his fighting for other people even when he has his own issues to deal with. Violet seems intuitive, and I hope she'll open up more as the book progresses.

3. Everyone seems to be expecting Violet to just "get on with it". Do you think that is fair or is it ok for her to continue grieving? Is it just me, or do you also think she feels somehow responsible for her sister's death? (or maybe survivor guilt?)
I definitely think it's normal for her to still be grieving. I don't think the grieving process ever ends, and everyone deals with it in their own way. However, that doesn't mean that she can afford to "check out" for the rest of her life; she can still grieve while moving on, and she needs to learn how to do that.

4. What do you think of Finch referring to his "asleep" times? I get the feeling he is possibly bi-polar with these large ups/downs.
I'm not sure about being bipolar, but perhaps a partially catatonic depression phase? Depression often has waves of varying sizes, some days/weeks/months being fantastic and then horrible and then good again, etc., so that could be what he's going through. And his depressive phases are deep enough that he can't function normally, and so his sisters cover for him.

I'm going to try to continue, but I have too much with school at the moment to stay on schedule. Sorry for backing out:/

1- Fav character: Well, I've taken a liking to the biggest underdogs: Jon Snow, Tyrion, and Daenerys. I have a feeling they are going to be very influential. But moving past Chapter 7, Arya becomes my favorite. And I already really don't like Joffrey.

2- Fav quote: I haven't been marking any quotes, but I found one that shows how Tyrion knows very well what his position is: "Dwarfs don't have to be tactful. Generations of capering fools in motley have won me the right to dress badly and say any damn thing that comes into my head." And then of course, he calls himself a bastard, showing the pros and cons of his position.

3- Direwolf: The symbolism here is pretty obvious, so it could be that something happening to a wolf will foreshadow the same thing happening to the owner. If it's absolute, the father is gone and the mother is killed, and so the children are left for themselves with Jon Snow surprising everyone in the end. We'll see how important the wolves actually are.

4- The King's Proposition: It's pretty obvious that Ned didn't have a choice. It would have been ideal for Robert to have chosen someone else, but Ned was the perfect choice from his perspective. It will no doubt tear about Ned's family, but we don't know yet whether that will help their position in the long run or not.

Are we answering the same questions that are posted on the first page or just discussing our impressions?

That sounds fine to me. Although the last day should be Oct 21, not 19.

Well, my copy doesn't have numbered chapters, but I'll go along with whatever way of counting you want to do.

It looks like most of us have already started, so should we set a day to start discussing? Like starting discussion on the first 3 chapters plus the prologue on Sunday? We could even pick two days of the week to answer questions and chat instead of every day. Like Sundays and Wednesdays, for example, but keeping with the 3 chapters a day. If you want a break day each week, that could be worked in over the weekend. So, then through chapter 12 by Wednesday. Then by 21 the following Sunday, etc.

Katie wrote: "I'm also doing grad school classes this semester, but I think I can handle 30 pages a day. I can start whenever. :)"

Yay! :)

I have never read the books or seen the TV shows before. I'm actually starting the book cuz my boyfriend wants me to watch the TV show but I told him I won't until I read the book:) So, please no spoilers!

I just realized I was counting the prologue as a chapter. So we're dividing it into sections of three but the first section really being four? Should we organize specific days to be at certain points by?

Yeah, I'm almost wondering if I should create my own character cheat sheet to keep track. But I'm mostly just trying to focus on the story and enjoy it. There's plenty of pages for everything to come together and make itself more clear:)

What I've noticed most about characters is simply to keep an eye on the underdogs because they tend to be more intelligent/skilled in order to overcome their flaws, as with Jon Snow and Tyrion the dwarf.

That sounds ok. By that count, I'm almost done with the "4th day." I've never done a buddy read. Does that mean we answer questions every day or every 3 days, etc.?

Hello!
I've just started this for the first time and I'm about 50 pages in. I would like to do a buddy read, but it kinda depends on how fast yall read. I'm starting a new semester at grad school, so I don't know that I'll have time to read 50 pages a day, etc. What are your plans for a buddy read?

Karen wrote: "@Chelsea
re: #3. Wuthering Heights seems to polarise people! It is one of my all time favourite books and I've read it and seen it on stage dozens of times."

Yes, I've found that Wuthering Heights and Jane Eyre tend to be love-or-hate books:) I hate WH and love Jane Eyre, and my cousin is the opposite. I suppose that means they're great books if they open up such passions in both directions.

September 12th Questions for Pages 1-40


1. So far we don’t know too much about the narrator, especially his (or her?) backstory. What we do know is that he likes to read a lot. I found the writing to be very descriptive, full of metaphors and beautiful imagery. Since this book is written in first person, do you think the writing style is reflective of the narrator’s love of books and words?
So far I love the descriptive style of writing. And yes, it does seem to reflect the narrator well since he is well-read and yet not a perfectionist. He seems most concerned with expressing imagery well.

2. There are SO many beautiful and thought provoking quotes in this book! Here’s one I like (pg 3) “Inside, the lies you tell become the person you become. On the outside, sun and reality shrink people back to their actual size. In here, people grow into their shadows.” Transforming yourself into someone else has a magical, or enchanted, quality to it. It’s like you are disconnecting from the world. What do you think about the connection between the title of the book and this quote? Did you notice this, too?
Well, the narrator seems to be enchanted with the world he has created in his mind within the prison. He finds a way to be genuinely happy despite the severity of his life. That enchantment is only possible by disconnecting himself from the outside world, and he knows he would be lost if he were ever to be released. So whether or not he realizes that his view of the world is not entirely factual, it's how he copes.

3. Another quote I liked: “There would be a new paragraph that I could swear I had never read before.” I’m not a big re-reader but I was nodding as I read this. Books, especially when you read them years later, can almost transform themselves into an entirely new story. At least they do for me! How about you? Do you experience a book differently the second time around?
Generally, yes, although I think the first impression has a huge impact. With books I love, rereading them feels like going home after being away for awhile, and I find something new to appreciate each time. But with something I dislike, a second read can make me hate it even more; this happened to me with Wuthering Heights since I had to read it twice for school over the years, and I don't intend to revisit it.

4. One last quote: “Book memories became the real memories, far more than the outside, far more even than in here.” A few times in my life I found myself telling someone else a story about something that happened to me only to realize that I had been talking about something I had read and not actually experienced!!! Has anything similar happened to you? How powerful are book memories for you? Are they transformative- life changing?
Sometimes I can't remember if I learned something from a book or a movie or an article, but I don't recall ever mixing something up with real life. I have confused dreams with reality a few times, but not book memories. Regardless, a poignant passage in a book definitely has the power to change my outlook on something. Books are knowledge, and knowledge is power, after all.

Alaina wrote: "Our society has a tendency to be easily swayed by misinformation and propaganda and don't always check where their news is coming from. I feel like a lot of people don't think critically about things, which is shown in the book. If people thought through things on their own and didn't just agree with all the information that they're fed, that would be a huge step in the right direction."

I definitely agree with you there. Watching what's going on in a presidential election is all it takes to see that people listen to propaganda without any kind of filter. Critical thinking does not seem to be a prevalent part of our society, unfortunately, which could have also influenced the fall of the Rusties.

Discussion Questions for 19th of August: "Oil Plague"- End (pgs. 340-425)

20. I think many of us would agree that appearance, whether skin color, weight, or level of attractiveness, plays too great a role in our culture. However, obviously, the ugly/pretty system is not the answer to fix this problem. How would you go about reducing the importance of appearance in our society? Do you think it's even possible?
I think opinion on appearance is way too strong to ever be overcome in our society. The best you can do is try to educate people about it. But even then, the media and fashion rules dictate most of the norms, so popular opinion may not be enough to change the idea overall. Fashion has had a heavy role in society for hundreds of years, so I don't see that changing anytime soon.

21. What did you think of this dystopia compared to others in books you have read? Do you think any element of this book could be present in the human race's future?
I wasn't as impressed with this dystopia as compared to Hunger Games or Divergent, etc., because Uglies just doesn't seem that well thought out. There are so many details that don't quite make sense and the characters are pretty flat. I gave it a 3.5/4 for the potential of the story, but the mechanics of it weren't stellar.
I suppose it is possible for the human race to eventually place less importance on beauty standards, but probably not for hundreds of years. It may take the availability of cheap beauty/surgery products and weight supplements to "equalize" everyone in a more realistic way.

22. David says that the Rusties (aka us!) lived "in a house of cards." Do you agree with that? Baring a bacteria that causes petroleum to explode, what do you think is our society's greatest weakness?
Well, I think we know enough about science these days to not be living quite so precariously. We do have somewhat fragile government and economical systems, but not to the point of collapsing entirely. It may be true that one of our greatest weaknesses is our dependence on fossil fuels and other natural resources since they could be totally tapped one day. Sustainable energy definitely seems to be the biggest goal for the future. But I think we do have an overly large obsession with industries like beauty, fashion, marketing, etc. Even if they're enjoyable, they don't do very much to promote definable gains like scientific/medical breakthroughs, cultural movements through literature, or the understanding of the mind, etc.

23. If you were in Tally's situation, would you have made the same choice to return to the city to get made pretty? How about if you were Maddy, would you have given Shay the cure against her will? And if you were David, do you think you could forgive Tally?
Everyone had very hard decisions to make! I think Tally is very brave considering what she knows about the lesions and the chance she may never be herself again. (Plus the fact that David may not like her anymore as a Pretty.) If becoming pretty was the only way to resolve the problem at hand, I could probably have done it, but it would not be easy; I would be terrified the entire time of something going wrong.
I think Maddy made the right choice. She made a great point about being different than the Specials by allowing people a choice. It's very important to stand by your morals in a time when morals aren't necessarily a standard and you could be tempted to break your own personal rules.
It's hard to say anything about David because he seems like such a 2D character to me. To fulfill the romantic cliché, I would expect him to at first be wary and then be in love with her like normal. But it would probably be more appropriate for him to be disgusted with her looks as a Pretty and insist she get the injections to remove the effects as much as possible. He is into the natural, so I can't see him loving Tally if she looks so fake.

24. What did you rate the book? What were your favorite and/or least favorite aspects of the book (characters, plot points, elements of the writing, etc.)?
I gave it a 3.5, but a 4 on here. I love the overall premise of the story and am interested to see how it develops, but I think it was created rather haphazardly. Most of the characters seem flat, there are so many details that don't make a lot of sense, and the writing was ordinary at best. I'm hoping the rest of the series is a bit better.

25. That ended on quite the cliffhanger! Will you continue with the series? Do you have any predictions for the next book or the series as a whole?
I would like to continue the series, but I'm still hesitant about how good it will be. I try to give books the benefit of the doubt when the underlying story is good, so I can usually overlook more annoying aspects. Although poor characters definitely disappoint me more than anything else.
Solely by the titles, it sounds like the second book covers Tally's operation and her rescue; maybe the third book covers another character who turns into a Special but is really on the Smokies side; who knows what Extras means. I haven't read any of the synopses yet.

Great questions!

Discussion Question pgs 220-339 “Heartthrob”-“Maddy and Az” Aug 17th-18th

14. Tally quickly learns that nothing is thrown away in the Smoke. Everything is recycled, traded or reused by someone else. They have a history. Do you ever think about the history of used objects you’ve acquired or purchased? Are you more attracted to used or new items?
Well, I think about an item's history if it's a used book and I wonder how many people have enjoyed its contents. I love the look and feel of truly old books. Sometimes I think about how I appreciate certain items in my parents' house because they're so familiar. Otherwise, I can't say I think much of objects' history.

15. While I am enjoying reading the book, there have been several things that don’t make logical sense to me in the story. For example, Special Circumstances basically has helicopters and GPS equipment available to them. David’s parents have escaped from the city at least 18 years ago, since David has lived all his life in the Smoke. I don’t see how it could be at all possible that they wouldn’t have found the Smoke in 18 years of searching. They weren’t hidden deep in a mountain or buried underground. They are pretty much out in the open. Did you experience other examples like this in the book, or is this just me?
I definitely feel the same way, since it didn't seem like they lived that far from the meeting point where they would disable GPSs. It would only make sense if the people there had some sort of radio scrambler to disable a GPS. And how did David's parents get so much stuff stored away? It seems like they would have had to go back and forth several times to steal things and yet never got caught. And why were they so trusting of Tally when it seemed like they hadn't told many other people the truth about the Pretties? I don't see how one 16 year-old can seem so incredibly smart and trustworthy after five minutes. There are definitely some things you have to just go with to believe this story.

16. Tally’s lying is really starting to annoy me. She continues to make excuses for all her lies. What do you think it will finally take before she quits lying? Or will she never stop?
Well, I'm not necessarily surprised because it's a very emotional decision and 16 year-olds don't necessarily have the best judgment. She needs to tell David the truth, but up to this point it has really just been self-preservation and so kinda understandable.

17. Like we’ve guessed so far, the operation to become pretty does also alter the brain of the person as well. Pretties develop lesions that are part of the operation. Do you think the people in charge in this world figured out about these lesions from the first time they started making people pretty or do you think it took a while for them to figure this out? Or do you think that maybe they are purposefully creating these lesions during the operation rather than it just being a natural side effect?
It's hard to say. Either the lesions were originally natural and they fixed them, then later decided the lesions could help their goals; or they created the lesions for mind control. They're certainly not natural anymore if they can be removed. I'm not sure if we'll ever really get a history of how the operations first started, so we may never know.

18.What do you think happened to Maddy and Az? Are they still alive? Do you think maybe Special Circumstances might try to give them an operation that causes the lesions to grow back?
If Maddy and Az were captured, I'm sure they would be tortured for information and then killed. I don't see how SC would allow them to live, even with lesions, after everything they did to rebel. I really hope they were able to escape, because there's not much chance they'll survive otherwise.

19. What would be the consequences of everyone having their lesions removed? Would their behavior change right away? If so, how would that affect their society?
That would make for an interesting wake-up. Although I think it was Maddy who said they didn't actually realize something about their brains had changed since they were learning at the same time, so maybe people wouldn't notice right away. Maybe people would just gradually realize they didn't want to party all the time anymore. Even if they consciously realized something had changed, they wouldn't necessarily know what and how. It may take someone explaining it to them for them to understand, and only then would they get angry.