Chelsea’s Comments (group member since Jun 08, 2015)

Chelsea’s comments from the Nothing But Reading Challenges group.

I guess I'm the only one who didn't see the Thaniel-Mori thing coming? I'm still not sure about that.

But yeah, I agree with everyone that the ending felt really rushed and confusing. Grace just really frustrates me and none of what she did made much sense to me. I think it was her actions that really changed the future, because it seemed like Mori was convinced up to that point that Thaniel and Grace would stay married and have kids, etc. So if she had just stopped her conniving, everything would have been fine with her marriage. But then again, I'm glad that Thaniel didn't stay with her because she seems really manipulative and not good for him. Even if Mori is also manipulative, he's doing it out of love and not personal gain.

August 18, Chapters 25-31

26. What did you think Grace was doing when she disappeared from the hotel? Why do you think Mori went after her?
I originally thought that she was going back to the Kensington house to work in her lab for lack of anything better to do when stressed. But obviously that was very off… And then I just figured that something had happened to her on the way, like getting mugged or something, being the reason for Mori going to look for her. I later began to suspect that she had something “bad” in the works, but I admit I had no idea what until it was spelled out.

27. Thaniel was placed under house arrest, but he escaped to go to the concert and play the piano. What would you have done in this situation?
I might have first tried asking permission to go, even with an armed escort. But yes, there’s a strong possibility that I would have also snuck out. I used to be a musician, so I know how seriously we take these things!

28. Mori tells Thaniel to be careful with Grace because it will make him less than he could be. Why do you think he says that? In what way do you think he meant this?
I think it’s because Grace’s personality is so much stronger than Thaniel’s. Thaniel thinks he’s strong, but in fact he is very willing to be swayed to other peoples’ wishes. Grace cut down his trees and he did nothing to show anger or resentment. She was extremely pushy with her feelings about Mori without really listening to his side.

29. Thaniel willingly signed over the house to Grace when they decided to get a divorce. Grace decided not to tell the authorities about Thaniel and Mori’s relationship. Which one do you think is the act is the one of greater kindness given the time period during which this happened?
I think Thaniel’s act is kinder. I’m still not convinced that Thaniel and Mori’s relationship is anything necessarily romantic, for one thing. Yes, they are extremely close, but they don’t seem lover-like, even with the implications. I think it was just dangerous for male friends to be that close in that time period, and anything could be misconstrued. Thus, Grace “outing” them would be harsh indeed, and so not a great kindness to spare them.

30. What did you think of the ending? Did it end up like you thought it would?
I have mixed feelings. I mean, I suppose everyone ended up happy, but it feels like there’s something missing. The whole plot with the Yard bombs seemed very hastily concluded with no flourish. I came to really dislike Grace and thus have no real sympathy for her and Matsumoto getting together. I wish there wasn’t so much resentment against Mori because I like his character but all the talk against him kind of spoils his character. I can’t really put my finger on it exactly, but I was not extremely satisfied with the ending.

Now I need to go read what everyone else thought! :)

August 17, Chapters 20-24

22. We have learnt a lot more about Mori in this section. Do you think Grace should be frightened of him?
I can understand how his ability can be frightening if you have reason to be disliked by him, but he’s also not a bad person. I don’t think she has good reason to be scared of him, although I wish her fear would mean she would treat Thaniel a bit better…

23. I'm still trying to work out what Matsumoto's role will be in all of this. Assuming Mori can see into the future, he would know of him before Matsumoto realised the connection and spoke to Grace about him. Your thoughts?
I don’t think Mori is worried about Grace being familiar with his background- he doesn’t seem to fear what anyone thinks of him. Judging by Matsumoto’s brief appearance at the wedding, I’m guessing he won’t be a major character from here on out.

24. I totally did not see that coming with Thaniel and Mori. I guess it explains Mori's hostility towards Grace?
The kiss? It seemed to me like it was a kiss on the cheek (I think) and lights only dimmed to prevent suspicion in case someone saw something innocent and turned it into more. I don’t think there’s anything romantic between them. But caution is necessary considering the time period.

25. So often books of this time period concentrate on women's limited options and how they are "married off" to someone rich. Whereas here we have Thaniel marrying money for convenience... do you think he will be able to find happiness in this arrangement?
Well, I think the marriage is definitely more for her than for him. She needed the lab space more than his family needed the money, poor as they were. I’m worried about the way Grace treats him- I was astounded that she had the audacity to cut down the pear trees and my opinion of her changed immediately. I hope she treats him well. If not, I hope he can find a way out and be happy.

Still playing catch-up:)

August 16, Chapters 15-19

17. Why do you think Thaniel was so quick to reveal everything to Grace on their first date? Would you have done the same?
I think he was a bit lost and confused about what to do and sensed that she was trustworthy. He wanted to help Mori but still not get in trouble with the police himself, so he knew he needed some help.

18. Everyone in this novel is so dismissive of women's suffrage! Is this comedic relief, or will it come into play somehow? ("Women won't have a vote until... all able-bodied men die and not before. Protesting now is pointless.")
Well, I think it’s probably reflective of how people really felt about it at the time- that it was a passing fad. Movements like that take decades to stick and even women themselves had to be convinced at the beginning. So I don’t think it’s a poor reflection of the characters to be dismissive of it, but rather very realistic.

19. Grace sees "fathoms-deep dislike" in Mori's eyes - is this because she took away future years with Thaniel, or is it something else?
That’s very possible. I’m not sure if Mori doesn’t like her because of his lost friend or because she does something to hurt Thaniel in the future, but I suspect that we’ll learn the reason before the end. I would think that Mori would be happy for Thaniel if he foresaw a happy marriage for him, so I’m a bit worried that it goes wrong.

20. Thaniel has had good fortune in a short time: promotion, new friends, new living arrangement, a marriage "proposal" and the chance to play piano again. Is this leading to a happy ending for him?
Things are definitely coming together quickly for him! But it’s true that it could be too much, too soon, and that it could turn around just as quickly. The marriage and the job are the most precarious things at the moment, obviously.

21. Have your thoughts/predictions changed over these 5 chapters? Has anything surprised you? Has anything bothered you?
It surprised me how quickly Thaniel agreed to the marriage- just a matter of minutes and he decided on the spot. I think he probably should have taken more time to think about it. I also hope his dealing with the police doesn’t go south as that could turn very nasty. I feel sorry for Mori now as it must be hard to predict not only gaining a friend but losing one. I hope he has a happy ending.

Hello, all! I'm going to try to play catch-up here...

Aug. 12 -- Discussion Questions for Chp. 1-4

1. I had never heard of this book before it was chosen as a book of the month for this group. Are you familiar with this book or this author?
No, this is the first time I’ve heard of either!

2. Thaniel finds a gold pocket watch in his flat, and he can't seem to get rid of it! What would you have done with the watch if you were in his shoes?
I’m not sure, but I would definitely have debated whether or not to carry it with me. I probably would have left it alone while trying to investigate it, at the very least. And then maybe I would have tried carrying it around to see if it did anything different. It definitely would have been constantly on my mind.

3. I knew I was going to love Grace's character from the moment she twitched her fake mustache! While Thaniel's chapters seemed more gloomy and tense, her chapter is hilarious! Although I could see how some people might find her a bit pushy. What do you think about these main characters, Thaniel & Grace, so far?
I like Thaniel because he seems ordinary and yet has a lot of potential to do strange and interesting things with his music-color gift. I’m sure that his gift will come into play as to why he was given the watch and saved from the explosion.
We haven’t really heard enough from Grace yet to draw many conclusions, but I love her attitude so far. She’s rebellious and yet intelligent enough to know when it’s smart to actually rebel.

4. The Bodleian sounds like an awesome library with its cavernous cellar underneath full of obscure titles. I just wanted to upload a few pics. Anyone want to go on a field trip!?
I would definitely go! I love libraries and could spend hours even in ordinary ones if I had the time. Well, except maybe for my pretty dull school library;) So an old and stunning library definitely has appeal to me.

5. The watchmaker seems quirky but nice. But it could be an act! Do you think he knows more about the bombings than he is telling Nathaniel?
Oh, I most definitely think he knows more than he’s telling. There’s no way he’s in the dark about it when he’s obviously so intelligent. Even if he’s not responsible for the bombings, I’m sure he knows something about it. But that doesn’t mean that he’s not still quirky and nice!

August 13, Chapters 5 - 9

6. I do not know much about clockwork. It sounds really neat and pretty. In my mind it is like really fancy automatons, except not people. I love the octopus! Did you know much about clockwork? Have you ever seen any work like the work described in the book?
I know absolutely nothing about clockwork, so it’s all new to me!

7. In chapter Six Mori says, "Honour is leaving your family behind because your own conscience is more important." Do you agree or not?
I think it depends on the person. There are certainly many families out there that expect their children to follow certain customs and lives, and it is often better for the children to leave and make their own way. But not all families are so restrictive. I certainly don’t make the same kinds of decisions that my parents do, but making different decisions doesn’t mean that I have to leave them behind, either.

8. The steam engine toy sounds cool. Do you really think that a thing like that could have existed in Ancient Greece? I loved his comment about philosophers! "They put two and two together and get a goldfish." This one I certainly agree with!
Yes, I think ancient inventions would surprise us with their ingenuity. After all, the Egyptians built the pyramids without machinery of any kind. And people back then dedicated themselves to a craft more than we do now, so they were capable of some incredible things.

9. In chapter seven Thaniel looks around his room and realizes that not much has changed over four years. He says that everything he has done has been "nothing but laps". What do you think about this quote?
I think that his observation is one that a lot of people make when they get to the age of a “mid-life crisis” and realize that they haven’t done anything interesting with their lives. He’s been living like a robot and he wants to break free somehow, and yet he also believes that he’s not capable of doing so. But his early recognition may help him sooner rather than later.

10. Spindle was very organized and had everything in its place. His cabinets were even a 17 x 17 grid. Mori's workshop sounds like a beautiful jumble of pieces and parts with something always going on. Which workshop would you like best?
Well, I love to be organized but I’m not very good about putting it into practice. I think I would fall somewhere in between with a half-hearted attempt at organization and knowing where everything was, but still looking like mayhem to others.

11. I don't know why the bird smelled like gun powder or exactly where this book is going, but I have been enjoying it. Any guesses that you would like to share so far? Are you enjoying it?
I’m definitely enjoying it so far because the characters are interesting and even though the plot is slow, it is still moving forward. It does definitely seem like Mori knows more than he is telling, but he also doesn’t seem the type to plant bombs without a really good reason for it, so the bombings don’t seem like his style.


August 14, Discussion Questions - Chapters 10-14

12. Fanshaw swoops up Thaniel and gives him a new job. Would you accept the post with the Foreign Office? Do you think it's a good move for Thaniel?
I thought it was a bit odd how he was given a job with no training, but then again he was pressed for good workers, even inexperienced ones. I definitely would have accepted as well because it was clear that his previous job was dull and that there was no more to be learned or improved upon. It’s a good move for Thaniel both in terms of a career and his personal mental health.

13. How do you feel about Thaniel agreeing to spy on Mori?
Well, it’s obviously not a good thing to spy on a friend, but Thaniel wasn’t given a choice. By agreeing to spy on him, he’s hoping to avoid Mori get into any real trouble by the police, so he’s actually trying to protect him. I just hope that Mori doesn’t find out, or that he understands if he does.

14. How do you think Grace's interferometer will factor into the story? Did her explanation of ether as proving mediums and ghosts make sense to you?
I’m guessing that she can get it to work correctly with another attempt or two and then use it to prove several things. I more or less understood her explanation, and it seems like it will have a connection with Thaniel’s ability to see sounds, but it’s unclear how yet. Obviously their strange abilities and Mori’s watches all have a greater connection; perhaps it will help them solve the bomb mystery.

15. Do Grace and Matsumoto have feelings for each other? Are they really just friends? Or is there a love connection brewing between Grace and Thaniel?
Grace and Matsumoto are definitely close, but I don’t necessarily think it’s bordering on something more. Although Matsumoto is so guarded that it’s hard to tell, and perhaps he’s holding back because he knows both of their parents wouldn’t approve. I also don’t think there’s anything building between her and Thaniel yet, either, although it could in the near future. They seem like they would be compatible, although still not in the same social circle.

16. Between finding the book and catching Mori in the act, Thaniel knows about Mori's gift. What do you make of his predictions?
Mori’s gift helps answer the question of him knowing more than he lets on. But whether he knows anything about the bombs is still unclear. It seems like he has good intentions, but he’s still too mysterious to draw firm conclusions.

Jen- Yes, I'm agreeing with you more and more about Silas.

I see your point, but actually, the previous group to read this book didn't use spoiler tags at all. Since they were on a schedule, they just respected not writing spoilers ahead of schedule. So anyone who was behind, or anyone in the future using this thread, just has to be smart enough to not thoroughly read past posts.

I haven't read any of Gaiman's other works, so I'm completely unfamiliar with the Hempstocks:)

Yeah, I also hope that he gets buried there so he can be with his "parents" again.

We don't need to use spoiler tags anymore, right? I'm assuming everyone has finished it since Sophie hasn't posted on here in ages and when she did, she was at least through Chapter 5.

Jen- It honestly never crossed my mind that Silas could be a vampire... Maybe because vampires aren't normally do-gooders. But it kinda makes sense. He never ate real food, he was able to persuade humans to do things, he was neither dead nor alive, and I think he is immortal. But for some reason, that never occurred to me as a possibility. Nice observation.

Caly- I also thought that the majority of the book was underdeveloped, but I still enjoyed it. Gaiman created an intriguing world. But I think it's such a shame that Bod lost his ability.

Sounds right:) I had only heard of Jack (view spoiler)[Frost, (hide spoiler)] but is it supposed to be the same character as from other stories?

You're welcome.

I have always thought I have a horrible memory, but I did indeed remember all of that. I don't remember names well, though, like the name of the mausoleum over the Sleer tomb. And it took several times of looking back to remember "Sleer." And I def don't remember all the Jacks!

:)

When Ms. Lupescu was first talking about her true identity, she mentioned that while some people called her kind werewolves, she called herself a Hound of God, and the ghouls (as her enemy) called her a Hell Hound. So there are different names for her kind depending on your opinion of them. But yes, she was also a member of the Honour Guard. But I don't think that necessarily applies to all Hounds.

Jen,

(view spoiler)[
Yes, the Sleer and the Indigo Man are the same. The Indigo Man was just the fake physical representation that the Sleer projected to scare the kids. The actual physical description of the Sleer was given in the chapter where the main Jack was taken as their new master.

And I definitely think it is set "today," as Scarlett talked about everyone her age having a cell phone. Even though the newest ghost resident was from the 1800s, it was mentioned several times that the graveyard was full and the town had started a new one many years before, so it makes sense that there's no new residents.
(hide spoiler)]

Any more questions?

Caly- Yes, I thought it was interesting how different people call the "Hounds of God" different things depending on their opinion of them.

Jen, do you still need help figuring out Chapter 4? I'll answer just in case.

(view spoiler)[
He didn't go through the ghoul-gate to get the brooch, he went through the F. mausoleum to the grave where the Sleer/Indigo Man is with the three objects.

Jack was NOT called by the pawnbrokers because they were ultimately too scared and then Bod took the card with him so they couldn't call later.

For the Interlude, I think the point was just to remind the reader that Jack was still out there looking for Bod, but also that he was part of some kind of organisation and his colleagues were disappointed in him. So not necessarily a huge plot point.

And yes, I agree that 15 is very young to be considered grown-up... But that doesn't seem unique to this book.
(hide spoiler)]

Oh, one more thing...

(view spoiler)[
The fact that Bod was the "chosen one" to end the Jack of All Trades was way underplayed, in my opinion. There was absolutely no build up and no satisfaction that the Jacks were over. Remembering that makes me want to rate the book 3.5... It's too bad that Gaiman missed out on so many cool story opportunities.
(hide spoiler)]

I'm done! I rated it as 4 stars since I enjoyed it but felt that it could have been developed more and I was slightly disappointed with part of the ending.

(view spoiler)[
I don't see why Bod had to lose his Freedom of the Graveyard just because he turned 15 and became a "man." What's the problem with him going out in the world but still keeping his abilities to Fade and whatnot? I think I'm so bothered by it because the author gave no reason for it, other than that he had "grown up," but I don't believe that as a reason.

I also think the story could have been developed a lot more, showing more of Bod's relationships with people in the Graveyard, telling more of what Ms. Lupescu taught him, explaining more about the Honour Guard, etc. It seemed like a missed opportunity.

But it was fun as a whole:)
(hide spoiler)]

I'm through Chapter 5 and the Interlude. It still seems like each chapter is a short story with continuous characters since each chapter isn't necessarily dependent on the ones before it. The only exception is when the villain is in the chapter. So, I'm guessing each chapter is just a sample of his life as Bod grows older and then hopefully at the end we'll have some kind of face-off with the villain and a proper ending to the story. But it's enjoyable enough so far.

What do yall think?

Chapter 3 could easily be a stand-alone short story. I think I actually heard that at least one of the chapters was a short story published previously, so that makes sense. But I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. The chapter was good, but I hope it fits in with the rest of the book.

I've read the first two chapters. It's a very simple story, but compelling.

(view spoiler)[
I hope the Sleen "people" show up again, because it seems like the most interesting development so far. And I hope we meet their master! (Aka the guy who's actually dead and the oldest one there?)
(hide spoiler)]

Hi! I'd like to join in, if you don't mind. I haven't read anything by Neil Gaiman yet and have been looking for a chance to. Do you have a planned reading rate? Something like 50 pages a day? Or it's just an at-your-own-pace thing?

Feb 18
Finch Day 75 - end
Pages 297-end

Q27. Violet learns about Finch taking all the pills. She sees Finch’s up and downs and how he is living in the closet. She is trying to help him by telling him about her worries and her parents about her worries for him. This is a major turning point for their relationship; do you think this is what made him push her away? Or do you think he was sabotaging their relationship pushing her away?
I definitely think he was trying to hide his "dark side" from her, and it hurt him that she put it out in the open. But that doesn't mean she shouldn't have tried. And I think he knew he needed the help, but that it wouldn't be enough.

Q28. Do you think his family was in denial about his mental health?
Definitely! I think Kate probably understood what was going on the best, but they were all idiots, willingly ignorant.

Q29. The cardinal is the turning point for him. Why do you think so? What symbolism does it have?
That moment really affected him as a child and for whatever reason stuck with him as he grew up. It became how he saw himself, trying to get past an invisible barrier to a life with everyone else and yet unable to do so.

Q30. Did you like the book?
I liked the message the book promoted, but I didn't care for the writing style and I was disappointed in the character development. Violet's development was weak and I wish we could have heard more from Finch. I think it's important for books like this to be published, especially considering at least one person in this group thinks people with depression are "lazy," and these kinds of books help raise awareness against that kind of attitude. But overall, this was a 3.5 for me.