Dale’s Comments (group member since Sep 15, 2017)

Dale’s comments from the Navigating Indieworld Discussing All Things Indie group.

Rocio wrote: "Judy, I did follow you advice and I got a respond, this is what she said: "I decided to go with traditionally published people for our first webinar."

:(
thank you though. Now I know why."

Ah, okay. And you also know your emails did get through okay, too.

Erica wrote: ""they spent a lot of time banging their heads into walls before they got one to crumble". I like that Dale!"

Thank you!

If you bother replying to that, put it something like this:

"I am not aware of ever having posted incentivized reviews or of taking any other action to artificially boost reviewer rankings. If you think I have done so, please show me specifically where and explain why you think I violated your terms of service. Thank you."

I had to delete several other sentences which would not have been at all helpful. ;-)

"Diplomacy is the art of telling people to go to hell in such a way that they ask for directions." -- Winston Churchill

Carole wrote: "Okay- Here's Goodreads response- Do you understand what they are saying'cause I don't.

Hi Carole,

Thank you for your response, though we're sorry for the confusion. As we mentioned in our last e..."

Sure, I understand it. They're saying, "We didn't read your question. Here's our answer."

;-)

So now that I've helped with a couple of blurbs, I can't seem to get my own right. :-P Here's what I have for my forthcoming novel, Ice on the Bay (Howard County Mystery #3). It seems a bit short and sketchy to me, but let's see what you folks think:

In the dead of winter, Detective Lieutenant Rick Peller's neighbor asks him to look into a old missing persons case. He doubts anything will come of it, but soon details emerge linking the disappearance of a saintly young veterinary technician with the burning of a wealthy executive's home and the murder of an unscrupulous career criminal. With the most likely arsonist sitting in prison and the dead man's address book overflowing with enemies, Peller and his colleagues delve into the past to link cold cases with cold-blooded crimes, while behind them all lurks a killer with a heart as frozen as the ice-shrouded Chesapeake.

Thank you.

By the by, here's my new blog post. I have two series going on right now, one reviews of indie novels I've read along with interviews of their authors, and one on Howard County, MD, the setting for my mystery novels.

https://www.daleelehman.com/2017/12/t...

While there, please sign up for my emails. My list is kinda small right now, so I need all the help I can get in growing it. Thanks!

Nice review! I've signed up for the email list for both blogs.

Theodore wrote: "I have generally found that, in cases like this, it feels so good when you stop banding your head into the wall. (;>)"

No argument there, and certainly each of us has to decide how to pursue their writing business, what's worth it and what is not. I'm only saying that it is business. I suspect the vast majority of successful businessfolk will tell you they spent a lot of time banging their heads into walls before they got one to crumble. ;-)

And of course I'm in the competition, too, with a little story about the most amazing sunset ever . . . maybe. ;-)

The stories are at https://www.indiesunlimited.com/2017/...

The voting link is https://www.indiesunlimited.com/2017/....

I know you have all been Ted's backers for longer than I've been here, so I won't beg for votes here (although if you do vote for me I won't complain!). Mostly, though, I just hope you enjoy my story. Thanks!

Theodore wrote: "Very interesting, Dale. I admire your grit and perseverance. B&N wouldn't even return my phone calls and e-mails."

I haven't had 100% success, either. I initially made phone calls and asked the name of the store's events coordinator, then asked to be put in touch with them. I could usually get through to the right person that way, although it sometimes took two or three calls. Emails were a bit different. Some stores responded, some didn't. Ultimately I only got into the one store, although the manager there told me they all talked to each other, so an author who had a good event at one store might get asked to do events at other stores. I can't say I'm surprised that the other stores didn't follow up with me, but I didn't follow up with them, either, after I realized that all of my books were going to be in transit for a month or more!

It can be frustrating, but look at it this way: the author generally needs the store far more than the store needs the author. An author event can be mutually beneficial, but unless you can bring a lot of people into the store, you aren't helping them all that much. And as for getting your book on the shelves, unless you can get a lot of customers to come in to buy it (and maybe buy other things, too), why would they devote limited and valuable shelf space to your books? It's simple economics. They aren't stocking books out of the goodness of their hearts. They have to sell products, and unless you can give them good reasons to think you'll make money for them, weeeeellllll . . .

I think you are right, though, that if a store just doesn't show any interest to you, it's best to forget them and move on to something else. Getting tied in emotional knots over it doesn't do anyone any good. It's just business. But I wouldn't write them off for good. It may be worth coming back every so often just to see what's changed. Staff changes, policies change, and just maybe your fame spreads enough that you can present a better case to them. I'm going to try another B&N blitz when "Ice on the Bay" is released. I think I can probably get into the Howard County store again, and if I can attract enough friends, family, and total strangers to the store, they just might be interested in having me in one or two other area stores. Can't hurt to try, right?

Bernard wrote: "Each author has his own way of coping with constraints surrounding him and works the best out of it."

That's no doubt true. I was just hoping to hear some of those strategies so I could see if anything in them would work for me. But I'm getting the sense that most of us just muddle through as best as we can.

I've done a bit of reading on time a management, but usually when I try the suggested techniques they don't seem to work out very well. I may just need more discipline at applying them, of course.

Theodore wrote: "Here's the problem re Indies and bookstores...they don't stock our books because in almost all cases, unless we're willing to lay out a ton of cash to the publisher (e.g., CreateSpace), our books a..."

Ted,

You know this, of course, but the current system of returns came about in the WWII era as a way to make it possible for bookstores to stock books without taking on too much risk. It's a system that a lot of people in the industry think doesn't make much sense anymore, but the stores don't want to relent. Better would be for stores to only buy a small number of copies at a time--unless they know they have a bestseller on their hands--so they don't take on too much risk to begin with and don't have to worry about returning anything. But that's not going to happen anytime soon. So we just have to get over that.

Here's a story for you. Because I run a small traditional publishing company, we order print runs in quantity (small quantity, but not print-on-demand). We offer the usual 40% discount to retailers and accept returns. So I arranged for a book signing at the B&N in Howard County to promote my Howard County Mysteries. Seemed like a good idea. B&N checks to make sure they can order the books through the publisher and can return them, then they say great, come on down.

BUT . . . I can't bring the books myself. I'm the publisher as well as the author, yes, but the store is required to order through their system. So the do that, and I get an order for 50 copies, which is everything I happen to have on hand at that time. I ship them to to the store (which I could drive to, but no, I have to ship them). They pay for shipping, at least. Then on the appointed day, I do the event, sell something like 5 books, and then have to wait for them to return the books to their distribution facility in New Jersey and from there for them to be sent back to me in Maryland, half an hour's drive from the store. Of course something got crossed up, so I had to spend time on the phone tracking down the books. We did get them back eventually.

Now here's the thing. I talked to the store manager after the event and she said that selling 5 books is pretty good. She said that even some reasonably well-known authors come in there and don't sell more than 5 or 10 copies. They did take 10 autographed copies to keep on the shelf for a short time, but I don't think those sold, either, and were returned. So here's the logical question: Why in the name of heaven did they order 50 copies from me?? Because they can. Because that way they'll be sure to have enough, just in case I happen to blow away all expectations. Because they are returnable and there is no risk to them in ordering five or ten times as many as they likely need.

That is the book store business. We can complain about it or work with it. I work with it in a few select cases, but I have no delusions about ever getting significant shelf space for my books. I don't sell enough books to warrant that. And those authors who use print-on-demand and can't offer that 40% discount and can't accept returns and can't wait 90 days or so for payment . . . forget it. You're not playing by their rules, therefore you don't get to play.

That's why I don't sell print books through Amazon. I'm a trad publisher. I don't use their tools to create and sell books. I upload completed ebooks and sell them, but as a publisher here's what I have to do to sell print books through them. I have to give them a non-negotiable 55% discount (not 40%, which B&N and most other stores will accept). I have to pay for shipping. (B&N lets me say who pays for shipping, and since I'm small and they're big, I say it's them.) If they return books for any reason whatsoever, I have to pay that shipping, too. Oh yes, and there is an annual fee for the "privilege" of entering into this relationship with Amazon.

Forget it. I can't afford to play by their rules, and since they're an 800 pound gorilla, they figure they don't have to negotiate with the likes of me. It took Hachette to stand up to them. I wouldn't have a chance. Maybe someday if I'm selling print books in sufficient quantity, I'll figure it's worth it. But not today.

Rocio wrote: "Hello, everybody. I just need to let this out. About a month ago I was invited to be part of a webinar to talk about my book and give tips to aspiring writers. I accepted and sent the necessary inf..."

Rocio,

It's entirely possible that what everyone else is saying is correct. However, I want to interject a note of caution here. This could be a failure of technology, to wit: your emails could have been lost in spamland and never seen. In that case, your contact might be thinking you had no interest and didn't reply to them.

I'm speaking from harrowing experience here. I have a domain name and email addresses for my little publishing company. When people email us at the company address, we reply to them from there. Also, our website sends emails to customers using that domain name. I found out earlier this year that a lot of emails were never getting to their intended recipients, including authors who queried us and customers who were having trouble buying from us. I had to use my personal gmail address to reach these people, and I don't know how many sales I lost on account of the problem.

In the same time period, I tried contacting the president of my local Maryland Writer's Association chapter to request a slot to read some of my work at an upcoming meeting. He sent three emails offering slots, I sent him two or three replies, and I neither heard from him nor was given time to read. At the meeting I asked if he had received my emails and he said that he hadn't.

This happens because email services such as GMail, Yahoo, etc., are in a constantly war with spammers. On behalf of their customers, they try to filter out spam, but just like in an arms race the "weapons" used on both sides are constantly evolving, so it's an ever-changing game, and unfortunately there is no perfect way to identify spam. A lot of legitimate emails get caught in spam filters, shunted to spam folders, and never seen because people just don't examine their spam folders very often. Even I don't sometimes, and I know about all this stuff.

I'm currently on a campaign to get people to whitelist my domain names, which should help keep our emails out of spam folders. But there is just no way to prevent it entirely.

Again, this may not have happened in your case, but I wouldn't be too hasty to slap the "rude" sign on anyone simply because they failed to respond to a couple of emails. It could well be they never saw the emails in the first place. If you have more than one email account, you might try contacting them from a different email address and asking if they had received your previous emails. If they say they didn't--bingo. Ask them to whitelist your preferred email address and tell them you're sending them an email from there so they can look for it and check spam if they don't see it come in.

So I guess the answer is that nobody has any more clue than I do. I'm not sure if I should feel relieved or frustrated. ;-)

Haven't seen any change yet, but if I do I'll let you know. Thanks!

Thank you both. By the by, I should clarify that I don't only mean actual writing time, but everything that goes along with it, including networking, marketing efforts, etc. I usually can find time to write, although not always consistently. It's all the other annoying things that need to get done that overwhelm me.

No, I'm not going to tell you how it's done. I don't know, either. ;-)

I'm curious what kind of systems other writers have for time management. In my particular case it's problematic, because I have a "day job," my little publishing company (effectively my "evenings and weekends job"), my writing, and now my wife's illness and everything that goes along with that, not to mention a million ordinary little things like mowing the lawn. I've thought of giving up my day job, but unfortunately my creditors aren't too keen on that, darn them.

So how do you organize, prioritize, and track everything that needs doing in your writing life?

Thanks!

Didn't have time to read it yet and might never get to it, but my initial reaction is: it's kinda sad if when need novels to teach us right from wrong. *sigh* (The novel as social commentary is a different matter, by the way...)

For general info:

I clicked "flag" on one of my own posts. I got a page to enter info about why I was flagging the post. There are only two options, as follows:

Inappropriate
The comment facilitates illegal activity, contains an image with nudity or excessive violence, or contains hate speech or ad hominem attacks on a Goodreads member or author.

Spam or Self-Promotional
The comment is spam or self-promotional.

There is also space for entering additional comments.

Given how specific the email was, Carole, someone pretty much had to complain about incentivized reviews, or the posts that were flagged may have (out of context) made it look like something like that was going on. I dunno, though. I've never seen anything from you that suggests such a thing, even inadvertently.

Hmm, actually I just found this page:

https://www.goodreads.com/help/show/5...

It claims they "carefully review" all flags and can "tell the difference" between valid flags and invalid ones. So I definitely think asking for an explanation is reasonable. If they really think there is a problem, they should be able to point out exactly what it is.