'Aussie Rick'’s Comments (group member since Jun 13, 2009)

'Aussie Rick'’s comments from the THE NAPOLEONIC WARS group.

I know, this is way faster than normal and during the start of the pandemic as well. They must have thought it was a relief package for us poor unfortunates in the colonies :)

"Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793" - The Battle of Le Mans;

" ... 'Never was there a butchery to equal this since the Vendéen War began,' wrote Prieur de la Marne, Bourbotte and Turreau on 13 December.

The battle of Le Mans was a decisive defeat for the Grand Army and the pursuit that followed on the road to Laval witnessed the massacre of men, women and children.

Maignon states the Vendéens lost near to 2,300 killed and Gabory claims that between 10 to 12,000 people would be massacred as a result of this catastrophic defeat. Madame de la Rochejaquelein estimated 15,000 casualties, 'very few of then fighters'. Greau gives a more conservative figure of around 4,000 killed. In 2009-10, archaeologists came across nine mass graves in the Place des Jacobins, about 500 metres north of the Place de l'Eperon. These graves contained 159 bodies of men, women and children identifiable as some of the victims from the battle."

An excellent blog article on the Dead of Le Mans:
http://rodama1789.blogspot.com/2017/1...

The books I ordered in April from Naval & Military Press arrived much earlier than expected. My parcel with these four titles arrived this morning:

By Fire and Bayonet: Grey's West Indies Campaign of 1794 by Steve Brown

Wellington and the Siege of San Sebastian, 1813 by Bruce Collins

The Key to Lisbon: The Third French Invasion of Portugal, 1810-11 by Kenton White

Next to Wellington: General Sir George Murray: The Story of a Scottish Soldier and Statesman, Wellington's Quartermaster General by John Harding-Edgar

That sounds like a fair statement Betsy, when have politicians ever listened to expert advice when dictating policy :)

"Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793" - The author had this to say of the fighting around Cholet in October 1793:

"The Battle of Cholet was one of the most fiercely contested of this war. Kleber wrote that the Vendéens 'fought like tigers and our soldiers like lions'. The losses are not recorded but were probably evenly balanced, with those killed being in the hundreds rather than thousands. The republicans claimed to have captured twelve cannon."

The Second Battle of Cholet:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_...

Scott wrote: "
British government censorship at its worst, noting the country had come from a tradition of relatively liberal free speech q..."

Sounds a bit like the start of the Nazi takeover in Germany in the 1930's and their control of the media!

"Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793" - Not only were the Republican forces fighting the Royalists in the Vendée but they were also fighting an internal war against counter-reactionaries and suspected Royalists:

"On 30 July the new command structure of the Army of the La Rochelle Coast was announced and showed a marked dominance of sans-culottes. At the same time Commissaires Grammont and Hazard were busying informing against all activity they considered suspect. Niort's public spirit, they said, was 'counter-revolutionary'; La Rochelle needed careful watching as the mayor was an intimate friend of Biron, General Verteuil was a 'man of straw', his nephew was a rebel leader, and the commander of the town's national guards was suspect. They added that General Tuncqq was an 'arrogant ... old general of the Ancien-Regime' who had dared to say to them that 'a general at the head of a victorious army does not need to be lectured.'

This was as much an ideological war within the army as it was a campaign against the rebels, and when Representative Cavaignac, who was attached to the Army of the Brest Coast, wrote that the new sans-culotte generals were talentless and would prolong the war, he was soon recalled."

Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793 by Rob Harper

"Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793" - Trying to find a link to the Battle of Machecoul in June 1793 only led me to this earlier incident:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_M....

There isn't a great deal of information available on the Internet covering specific battles fought in the Vendée.

Glad you managed to get through the book Betsy and also learned something of the Chouan cause in the process. What's next on your reading list?

Scott wrote: "

The practice of fiscal subterfuge so the British government could afford to pay ‘enormous’ sums for the goods and services ..."

A pretty devious practice!

"Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793" - The Republican forces in Vendée are finding the fighting tough going. In June 1793 they lost the Battle of Saumur:

"The Vendéens claimed an exaggerated figure of 8,000 prisoners, 1.500-1,900 enemy killed and forty-six cannon captured. Only a few prisoners were retained, the rest, once their hair was shaved were sent away on the Tours road. The Vendéens admitted to light losses."

And;

"Reports flooding in to Paris indicated the defeated troops were turning up in towns across a wide area. On 13 June representatives in Le Mans noted the pitiful state of the army, indicating that men in Orleans battalions no longer wanted to fight the rebels but wanted to return to the frontiers, and that cavalry were selling their horses and men their equipment, leaving troops devoid of effects."

Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793 by Rob Harper

Great quote Betsy, are you enjoying the book?

"Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793" - Things aren't going the Republicans way in the Vendée:

"Three commissaires were sent to find out just how serious the situation had become. They reported that the Vendéens were guided by a religious fury whereas the national guards were formed of fathers of families engaged for only fifteen days or a month at a time who persistently asked to go home. 'If this horde of fanatics cross the Loire it will be impossible to stop the torrent that will move to the heart of the Republic ... or the seat of the National Convention'."

Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793 by Rob Harper

Good advice Doubledf99.99 on reading "War & Peace" which I will keep in mind if I ever decide to tackle this classic.

Scott wrote: "
This is the first reference to the Chouans, that many others are reading about, in Claytons tale; I’m sure it’s not the last..."

In my book the Republicans forces fighting in the Vendee have high concerns about the coast line and are trying to ensure they control the coastal fringe, mainly due to their fear of an invasion or aid being supplied by the British.

"Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793" - Young Henri de la Rochejaquelein has just entered the conflict in the Vendée to lead rebels against the Republican forces. In Les Aubiers on the 13th April he was standing before these men when he made this legendary appeal:

“Friends! if my father were here, you would have confidence. As for me, I am only a boy, but I will prove that I deserve to lead you. When I advance, do you follow me; when I flinch, cut me down; when I fall, avenge me!”

Henri de la Rochejaquelein:
http://madmonarchist.blogspot.com/200...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_d...

Here is a good link to answer your question Scott about the ‘War of Jenkin’s Ear':

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK...

Your posts have helped in pushing me half-way towards a future purchase. Did you enjoy your experience of reading "War & Peace"?

I had this same problem with buying a copy of "The Odyssey" until I saw Emily Wilson's translation. But even then after I had purchased my copy it took me around two years to actually get myself hyped up to read it.

The Odyssey by Homer

Two very good points in your first and second post Scott, especially about looking at the continuation of the Napoleonic Wars from a different perspective.

"Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793" - General Turreau offered some advice in regarding to fighting in the Vendée:

"If the terrain allowed, the rebels approached as close as they could undetected, aiming to infiltrate the terrain to the front and flanks of the republicans. On a given signal their marksmen and tirailleurs would open up a withering fire from the flanks, taking particular care to target officers and gunners. This sudden discharge would be followed by a headlong charge accompanied by terrifying screams, one notable cry being 'Rambarre! Rambarre!' a call traditionally used to round up cattle and signifying that the enemy has been outflanked.

General Turreau indicted that a republican column might find itself under sudden and fierce assault from all sides at once, adding that officers used to conventional warfare said they would prefer a year campaigning on the frontier to a month in the Vendée. They often deployed in a crescent, with their best tirailleurs and marksmen on the flanks. Turreau recalled that the rebels could be seen loading their muskets as they advanced, even at the run, and while they were untrained in methods of battalion firing they could maintain a firefight just as well and just effectively as the republicans."

Fighting the French Revolution: The Great Vendée Rising of 1793 by Rob Harper