MeerderWörter’s Comments (group member since Jan 08, 2016)

MeerderWörter’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

"Our internal struggles with traditional roles are not analogous to the issues that settler peoples have with their traditions; therefore using Western liberal theory to deconstruct them is inherently incongruous."
Chelsea Vowel: "Indigenous Writes: A Guide To First Nations, Metis and Inuit Issues in Canada" p. 110

"To look at any of this solely through the lens of Western feminism is to miss the larger picture."
Chelsea Vowel: "Indigenous Writes: A Guide To First Nations, Metis and Inuit Issues in Canada" p. 111

"Indigenous Women and Two-Spirit people must bear a heavy burden as they work to reestablish and revitalize Indigenous sociopolitical orders, exercise sovereignty, and live resurgence; indeed, it can be very dangerous and draining work. It should not be necessary to work so hard to overcome barriers imposed by people who were supposed to share these lands as guests and, eventually, as kin, not as rulers. Nonetheless, to exist as an Indigenous woman or Two-Spirit person is an inherently political act. Simply resisting erasure is part of the work."
Chelsea Vowel: "Indigenous Writes: A Guide To First Nations, Metis and Inuit Issues in Canada" p. 113

Meelie wrote: "Hi Meerder,

We've been thinking about reviving a few old threads, so that we don't have multiple threads - https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... this one f..."

Sure...

I know there are a coupla threads out here on quotes from feminists or quotes that explain why we there is feminism around etc...
That is not what I intend with this topic.

In this topic, I invite you all to share quotes from books or speeches that explain why we need different forms of feminism, and why we have them, and why it is necessary to have them... Quotes that explain the differences... quotes that show the diversity of feminism...

"Our internal struggles with traditional roles are not analogous to the issues that settler peoples have with their traditions; therefore using Western liberal theory to deconstruct them is inherently incongruous."
Chelsea Vowel: "Indigenous Writes: A Guide To First Nations, Metis and Inuit Issues in Canada" p. 110

"To look at any of this solely through the lens of Western feminism is to miss the larger picture."
Chelsea Vowel: "Indigenous Writes: A Guide To First Nations, Metis and Inuit Issues in Canada" p. 111

"Indigenous Women and Two-Spirit people must bear a heavy burden as they work to reestablish and revitalize Indigenous sociopolitical orders, exercise sovereignty, and live resurgence; indeed, it can be very dangerous and draining work. It should not be necessary to work so hard to overcome barriers imposed by people who were supposed to share these lands as guests and, eventually, as kin, not as rulers. Nonetheless, to exist as an Indigenous woman or Two-Spirit person is an inherently political act. Simply resisting erasure is part of the work."
Chelsea Vowel: "Indigenous Writes: A Guide To First Nations, Metis and Inuit Issues in Canada" p. 113

Jasmine wrote: Old but interesting article. It raises the question, well why should they given their history?

Easy answer: No, they should not be ripped of this right!!! No one can change the past, what is important is how we deal with it, what we make out of it. And of course we can't deny the past, which we so often do...
People can change, and not all white men behave in a way that would allow it to strip them of their rights... what you suggest, ripping white men of the vote, that is right away from democracy back into dictatorship... do you really wanna go down that road?

I really do wonder what such a post is for here on OSS...

Winston wrote: "Michaela wrote: "@Don: Do you think men can only learn from other men? And if that's the case, then why do you think is that?"

I'll take that. I think Men can learn valuable lessons from men as we..."

I second that. Not only when it comes to genders, but in general. When you see yourself represented in media discourse, in movies, in books and so on, and also in real-life, politically for instance. Then that is better for yourself because you see that it is possible to live your life a certain way, a positive, healthy one, not one where you have to struggle all the time.

Jasmine wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "Jasmine wrote: "I was sent this by a friend.

An old event but apparently they may soon have another. Sounds hilarious!

A night of feminism and comedy - the male comedians ea..."

I think you and I have very different views on what feminism is.

Well, anyways: Oppressing the oppressor makes oneself the oppressor.

Michaela wrote: "I learned something at university (took some courses on gender studies) that changed how i think about femininity and masculinity. I hate these expressions, because they suggest something that soun..."

I agree with you - gender is not natural - it is socially constructed.
Until the 18th century, there was the model of one human: the man being the default and the woman being a malformed man (I must say this was in Christian cultures, as this was not the case in other cultures, European or not); in the 18th century, with the flourishing of the sciences, the dichotomy of man and woman became a thing, something that today nearly the whole world believes in... and another change happened: The Enlightenment brought a lot of changes, but it brought among others one very significant one: the ascription of characteristics to man and woman, that we are so used to today... heck, in the 17th century women were married when they were very strong, and there are even reports that the women please shouldn't punch their men so much...

So yes, gender very much is a socially constructed thing.

Jasmine wrote: "I was sent this by a friend.

An old event but apparently they may soon have another. Sounds hilarious!

A night of feminism and comedy - the male comedians each are locked into chastity devices!

..."

I don't think that is particularly funny...

Jakari wrote: "Really, it’s easy for anyone to take advantage of someone? Who’s more likely to get prosecuted in a rape trial, a poor man or a rich man? This is a problem with people being able to buy freedom and..."

Prosecution and taking advantage of someone are two different pair of shoes.
The action cannot happen before the reaction. This is in itself not possible.

Lewis wrote: "@Meerder :

I took "colour-blindness" 'cause it's the word used in the book to talk about the way to ignore skin color of people. I'm agree with you it's not the best word for that 'cause we can mi..."

Someone will have to come up with a better word.
Actually it was @DelSchilling on Twitter who in one of her threads covers the issue and that's how I first got to know about it and made me think about it.

Jakari wrote: "I have a double major in economics, political science, and a minor in civil rights studies, I know what I’m taking about. The women’s rights movement didn’t start with Oprah, it started when trump ..."

So what about the Women's Convention in Seneca Falls (how telling that it was there where they met) in 1848...
Oprah is just one of the women fighting for justice and she stands on the shoulders of giants...

Michaela wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "Ross wrote: "Gah... and we have to deal with outright Nazis here...
Feminism has to be strong, we can't afford a backlash...
"

Sadly even in germany it's difficult to keep up..."

I can say the same - I think we have more coverage of what is happening in Germany than you have of what is happening in Austria. But as you we only get the real shocking stuff when it comes to political extremism.
I don't get why, actually - no language barriers, no real cultural barriers - but then the press is a piece of its own in general anyways...

We can just be glad that we both have the Greens who are, I think, in both our countries among the most feminist ones, apart from the Socialists...

Lewis wrote: "Debbie Sally wrote: "I like this thread. I wanna share a little of my experiences.

I'm from Papua, the East island of Indonesia. Most of Papuan born with brown/black skin color and curly hair. I c..."

I agree... people have the tendency to bully someone regardless of what makes them different... it might be different forms tho...

To weigh in on this myself, I too was taught to ignore people's "characteristics" (for want of a better word)...
but I came to realise that it is wrong and doesn't change that much actually, or at least is bad in the sense that you don't acknowledge the whole person.

Please don't say "colour-blind" as there are people who actually cannot see certain colours, and it is ableist to misuse the term in this way.
If we're neglecting the color of one's skin, we do get some issues, as it, for instance, completely erases the impacts that racism has had on our societies and how we still treat people as a society. (I really mean on the macro-level here, not on the individual level)
Also, another issue I have is: I don't think it is a bad thing to state one's skin colour... as there are stories related to it, and it may help to understand why people have the view they have on certain issues. (This again, is related to racism) It is problematic tho of course, when we ascribe qualities to a person based on their skin colour... simply because people share characteristics doesn't mean they share others as well...

Coming back to the "acknowledging the whole person" thing:
I know a lot of people who are, shall I say, "disadvantaged" by society in many different ways. Society has certain views on certain characteristics of them, that are seen as negative, mostly because the "extraordinary" (either the perceived or the actual) is seen as a negative in comparison to the ordinary. To neglect a part of a person's identity, and yes I do say identity here as there are many parts of what constitutes identity for a person, is, in my humble opinion, a bad thing. Whether that is skin colour, disability, or something else, I always have an issue with the following: Oh, but you're okay/wonderful etc. despite xyz...
What does that tell? It tells that xyz is bad or it would be better not to have it... why can't a person be proud of xyz, for whatever reasons? It also tells us that a person can't feel comfortable because of xyz... I can't really articulate why it bothers me, but it just gives me the itchies...

So yes, I don't think "colour-blindness" does get us anywhere. I also think it does more harm than good, as it doesn't acknowledge the reality that people are still judged based on the colour of their skin/their ethnicity rather than their deeds... and it also doesn't acknowledge the person as a whole person, as in that a certain aspect of the person is simply rushed over/not talked about/erased.

That are just my two cents, I am looking forward to hear more!

Ross wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "Michaela wrote: "Sehr schön gesagt :) Aber das trainiert alles bloß unsere Schultern, die müssen ja stark sein, für die ganzen Generationen nach uns, die sich da noch draufste..."

Gah... and we have to deal with outright Nazis here...
Feminism has to be strong, we can't afford a backlash...

The first "X" passport was issued in Malta in the last days:)

http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/nat...

Kimia wrote: "Ross wrote: "I believe NBC have sacked one of there presenters for similar behavior. I think this is good thing and also a opportunity if women can replace all of these men when they are removed th..."

It for sure gets the message across that we don't tolerate this sort of behaviour any longer.

Michaela wrote: "Sehr schön gesagt :) Aber das trainiert alles bloß unsere Schultern, die müssen ja stark sein, für die ganzen Generationen nach uns, die sich da noch draufstellen werden!"

Naja, unsere Schultern müssen eh stark sein, denn da werden noch viele Generationen an Aktivist*innen kommen.
Und manchmal muss man eben auch mit Leuten umgehen können die einen nerven und ihnen die volle Breitseite geben.


To come back to the topic:
What about Austria's politics? How much are they covered elsewhere and what are the opinions on it?
We have to deal with some pretty horrible people here and feminism is really needed to fight back and not roll back into the 1930s...

Agnes Szalkowska wrote: "Good to know ;)"

:)

Hello everyone!

This week's Skype session will take place at approximately 21:00 BST (UK time), with open end as usual.


Our topics are as follows:

1.) With the first Anniversary of the Women's March last weekend:
How big was the impact of this years Women's March and do you think it is/was inclusive enough?

2.) Last week we did not get to discuss Oprah's speech, so we will include the question as a second topic this week.

3.) Freeform discussion

We hope to see you there!
OSS CHAT