Katelyn’s Comments (group member since Jan 07, 2016)

Katelyn’s comments from the Our Shared Shelf group.

Hi Mahima, there is already a thread for wishing Emma a happy birthday here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

There is another thread where members are writing to Emma here:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

In the future, please do a quick search of topics before posting a new one. We do not allow duplicate threads, in the interest of organization.

Additionally, while Emma is the founder and organizer of Our Shared Shelf, the focus here is meant to be on the books, so we especially try to keep letters to Emma contained within the threads that have already been created.

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Hi Donna, the plan is for Emma to announce the books sometime mid-month for the following month. Keep your eyes peeled!

Hi Hamza, there is already a post wishing Emma a happy birthday here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Please be sure to do a quick search using the bar to the right before posting to check if there is already a thread for that topic.

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Adam wrote: "Katelyn: I'll leave it up to you for a new title.

Thanks!"

Okay! If anyone else has a better title idea, let me know and I'll make a change. For now I'm going with "Transgender identity and construction of gender"

Hi there, Molly. Please follow the directions here to suggest a book for Our Shared Shelf: How to Suggest a Book. You can also add it to any of the lists in the Book Suggestions folder that have been created based on topic or genre. We do not, however, allow creation of topics for individual books.

Thank you!

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Bunny wrote: "So the problem here is that several separate things are all being lumped together, ie sexuality "heterosexual or homosexual", biology "men and women", identity ",transgender people" and gender gender roles are an artificial and forced...""

I don't mean to cut in with even more considerations that may or may not be plausible, but we could also throw in what you mentioned earlier: the degree to which different people are interested in sex at all

Which may mean something along the lines of asexuality and the various other identities that people have recognized, or just a spectrum of desire/interest in the act(s) itself.

Which is often lumped in with sexuality in the sense of the genders one is attracted to, even though it (to me, anyway) seems to be a completely different spectrum to consider. One can be both gay and minimally interested in sexual activity. I'd like to see more attention paid to separating these considerations, in the way that the "T" in LGBT has been placed in its own category; transgender does not indicate the genders that one is attracted to.

Sorry, I've gone off on a bit of a tangent, haven't I?

Bunny wrote: "I can't edit the thread title because I didn't start the thread and I'm not a mod but if the OP would be willing to edit or agree to let the mods do so it maybe we could make some suggestions for w..."

Sure! Throw out some ideas! I just thought the topic will attract a greater number of members interested in this issue if the title is more specific.

Perhaps something along the lines of "Transgender identity and gender constructs"

Too complicated maybe? haha :p (although that would certainly reflect the nature of the topic discussed which is... complicated indeed!)

I'm going to move this to the Intersectionality folder.

Also, I'm thinking this needs a more specific title, so feel free to go in and edit it, or if you'd like me to take care of it.

I often find myself imagining a utopia in which gender as a concept has been entirely eliminated, and wondered what that would mean for trans folks. There are also some people who do not identify with their gender and some who feel as though they have incorrect anatomy, and I don't know enough to speak authoritatively on this, but I imagine that those two different types of people would face different challenges in a gender-less world.

But this is getting into my hypothetical headspace, so no need to linger on that.

Hi Adam, you are welcome to post links to articles or to quote from them, as long as you provide links or citations. Just make sure they are posted in the appropriate topics and folders!

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This is something that I've been thinking about that might inform some of our thoughts in other topics about the book, but also may be worth discussing in isolation.

Caitlin Moran was homeschooled and then chose to begin her career at 16 rather than attend university.

How do you think her education and her background as a culture critic, particularly with regards to music journalism, affect her writing style and general approach?

I think one of the obvious answers is that her early exposure to rock 'n roll criticism at Melody Maker, as described in the book, might have something to do with her very crass use of language and humor. Certainly this background is to thank for the inclusion of many musical references and the passages about Lady Gaga later in the book.

What do you all think?

I'm going to ask that members message each other privately when conducting conversations that do not involve all other members. In this case, this debate is not expanding the discussion and is preventing other members from participating to their fullest potential. If you need to address a particular member individually, regarding something other than the discussion at hand, it is useful to use the private message function on Goodreads. Thank you.

Henriette wrote: "I really don't think you should have kids if you have doubts."

Not to speak for anyone else, but for me and I imagine for many, there is difficulty in distinguishing between doubts about pregnancy, giving birth, etc. and doubts about the kids themselves. Also, distinguishing between anxiety about parenting and having kids more generally. Again, I'm still young, so I'm not prepared to actually examine these feelings for myself, because regardless it would be years before I proceeded with any baby-making plans if I decided to, but I can't really fathom how I would go about reconciling those conflicting issues!

Sandra wrote: "I think it's hard to discuss it though because humans are naturally quick to be defensive, but does it make sense to be individually offended for a systemic flaw? Not sure I've worked out the answer to that question myself. "

To me, the obvious answer is no. But it's also an example of my privilege in that I have had an education in which I've explored these issues and can understand the distinction. Not everyone can so easily grasp the differences. I think that's where a lot of the miscommunication can happen: academic feminists throw terms around that aren't always familiar to the general population, and there is a lag in how society in general comes to term with these concepts. All the while, boots-on-the-ground feminists are using those terms as well and bringing them into the limelight before they've been fully understood. That's only part of the story, though.

Marine wrote: "@Katelyn that's offtopic but can you confirm or deny what I seem to remember, about Emma saying that this year she's hosting the book club, or a similar statement implying it's a project of 2016 and then it may or may not continue? (but regardless of whether it continues, I know from various projects that motivation and participation will be declining, so the first books are extremely important)"

I don't recall any mention of it being only for one year, no. Just what I mentioned earlier about her year-long hiatus from acting, but I don't believe there was ever a direct connection made between that and OSS, although I do think OSS is part of her general plans to focus on gender equality efforts. As far as I understand, though, this was not meant to suggest that OSS would be only a year-long project.

Bunny wrote: "Oh its definitely expensive and unpleasant but I wanted children so to me it would have been worth doing just to extend the time in which it was an option. Now it really isn't any more, although if..."

I think that's still pretty accurate, but her argument was that it is possible the age is higher than we think it is, as our quality of life has improved overall, it seems to make sense that this would also apply to the health of our eggs as we get older.

Or maybe it's lower! Who knows, if the research isn't there and we're still depending on outdated information.

(this is all assuming that her facts are correct, btw)

Here's a thread that Bunny started in the Intersectionality folder:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

There is also another thread where people are discussing Intersectionality in general in that folder, not to mention the many devoted to specific issues under the umbrella term.

And there is still the topic "White Perspective?" in the folder Apr—How to Be a Woman where the discussion of issues specific to this book and intersectionality continues.

Bunny wrote: "If I was in my 20s now and could afford it I would probably freeze some eggs just in case. So I would have more options if getting my career organized took longer than I hoped. There seems to be ev..."

IIRC, in the last chapter of All the Single Ladies: Unmarried Women and the Rise of an Independent Nation, she discusses all these issues, and specifically mentions that a lot of the assumptions we make about healthy childbearing age is based on research done as early as the 19th century. If this is true, the rule that after 37 the quality of the eggs drops significantly may not be accurate anymore! She also describes the experiences of a friend who froze her eggs... very unpleasant, very expensive. Hopefully as technology progresses these services will be more available to a wider range of people.

Bunny wrote: "Please note that message 67 is a response to a message that has been deleted I wasn't actually talking to myself. :-)"

Ah, and I didn't see that response until after I had posted message 68. Thanks for clarifying!

Bunny wrote: "Marina, Anja, Laurelai and anyone else, I'd be very happy to talk with you in another thread if you are interested. Just because this discussion isn't welcome here doesn't mean we can't have it."

Please do not take my message as a request to cease having the conversation. It is simply to point out that the domination of members on certain threads is preventing other members from taking part in discussion. There are currently 3+ threads on this discussion board on similar topics being dominated by the same members. It is creating some level of intimidation that is preventing other members, perhaps with different levels of language facility and education, from participating. If anything, I think that this adds another level to the discussion of intersectionality.