Random’s Comments (group member since Apr 30, 2009)

Random’s comments from the Beyond Reality group.

Ron wrote: "I don't think the Idirans intended simply to destroy the Mind; I think they wanted to reverse-engineer it, if not to gain themselves the ability to create Minds of their own (since they consider th..."

It depends on which group of Idirans. The group on Shar's world was very intent upon its destruction.

After thinking on things for a while I do have to give the book a plus. If the story was told with Balveda as the primary character and mostly from her point of view, it would have been the more traditional heroic story.

However, what Banks did was to give us the story from the point of view of the antagonist. An interesting approach and one I have to give him points for.

I do wish it had been better executed.

In regards to Utopia being rather dull, very true. It is conflict that makes things interesting. However, it seemed to be that the Idirans (that we see in the book) and others spent more time fighting each other and not the Culture. (Seeds of their own destruction maybe??) I just felt like hitting everyone across the back of the head and yelling "Grow some sense you moron!" :)

Diane wrote: "And wasn't Shards of Honor printed first, then Warrior's Apprentice?"

Warrior's Apprentice was published in 1986. Barrayar was published in 1992.

Stefan wrote: "Mayhew's laughter faded. "My God," he said hollowly, "you mean he's like that all the time?" "

That is one of my personal favorites. :)
A few others are...

--
"I've never understood why these people won't clip their kids' tubes and turn them loose at age twelve to work out their own damnation, like sensible folk. You may as well try to stop a sandstorm with a windsock ..." She went off toward the library, muttering her favorite swear-word under her breath, "Barrayarans!"

--
"....I think I was fourteen before I found out that Ivan wasn't your middle name."
(In regards to "That idiot Ivan")

--
"Other people" Miles groaned, "get to hallucinate orgies and giant cicadas and things. What do I get? Relatives. I can see relatives when I'm conscious. It's not fair ..."

Of course Miles is my ultimate favorite. There is just something so magnetic about his personality.

Not considering future books, I'd have to say Artie Mayhew. I found the scene where Miles first meets him is very amusing.

Diane wrote: "I'm glad to have read Shards of Honor previously because I think the background info is important. I feel like I know Miles a little bit already and can understand his motivations."

The downside to reading in chronological order instead of publish order is that we loose a few surprises.

Janny wrote: "It will be fun as heck to see what this group makes of this novel, so far as the people who started with Shards and have not encountered miles yet..."

I'm excited to see what new readers think of Miles as well. I have to say he is one of my all time favorites. :)

I guess you could look at this in a backwards way.

Many books focus on the hero and how one person can really make a difference/save the day.

Consider Phlebas turns things on end and shows how that one person is just not enough to make any difference in the grand scheme of things. He caused a lot of destruction and made some waves in his immediate environment, but no further really.

Also, in the long run, what was the purpose of the Mind's destruction other than it is an intelligent machine that Horza and Idirans despise? It was not a vital component, not even unique really. Just another individual in a galactic war.

The pointlessness of Horza's actions seems to increase the more I think about it. :)

Well I finally managed to finish. For the most part I felt rather eh about it all. I had a difficult time caring about what happened to the characters so many of the scenes (like the island) really didn't have much of any impact on me. In fact, the only character I found interesting was Balveda and we saw so little of her.

The descriptions of the Damage game were interesting.

Oddly enough, I did enjoy the ending. For some reason their deaths, except for Balveda and the Mind, seemed to emphasize the futility and pure pointlessness of it all.

I've never really liked space opera though, and that may be why I've had such a bland reaction.

I find I do think the Culture society sounds interesting. Whether or not its enough to get me to try another, I don't know.

Diane wrote: "Janny, I'm afraid we seem to be ignoring your posts, for the most part, but I think it's just because they are coming toward the end of the discussion month. I hope you'll join us for the Warrior's Apprentice too, I'm finding your thoughts very interesting."

That and they're well enough said that we (well at least I) don't really have anything to add to them. :)

For SF I would like to nominate
The Dark Beyond the Stars by Frank M. Robinson
Its a good story that brings up a number of interesting questions and ideas. Plenty of fodder for discussion.

FYI - The group's calendar shows A Civil Campaign coming after Diplomatic Immunity

Anomander wrote: "I liked The Graveyard Book, good to see that it won even though it didn't have that much competition in the 'Best Novel' category."

I don't know, I personally loved Anathem.

Girl Genius, YAY!!

I was thinking of the discussion of Piotr and what others had said and something kind of solidified for me and I'm wondering if I can say this in a way that makes sense. :)

Each generation fights the hard battles to make things easier for their children. Piotr helped dragged Barrayar out of isolation and into the modern world. When he could go no further, the task was taken up by Aral. In the later books I believe we see this being taken up by Miles.

In the part with Vorhalas's son when he had dueled and killed his opponent, he only saw two options. There was the option of being lenient, giving the boy some mercy trying it as a murder case. Or, he had to stand with the laws designed to help drag Barrayar out of the bad old days and sentence the boy to death. I kept wishing he could find a different way.

"Don't you know?" he said gently, resigned. "Ezar's way is the only way that can work, here. It's true after all. He does rule from his grave." He headed for their bathroom, to wash and change clothes.

"But you're not him," she whispered to the empty room. "Can't you find a way of your own?"

And I realize, I think Miles could have found a way. Specifically I think he could have found a way forward, a way further than what his father was able to do, just as Aral was able to go beyond his father.

None of this is coming out very well, but I think a theme we see starting here and that continues into the rest of the series is that of going beyond the previous generation.

I was reading Mountains of Mournings today and I ran across a section that did a better job of describing Piotr than I managed to do.

He was born at the very end of the Time of Isolation, and lived through every wrenching change this century has dealt to Barrayar. He was called the last of the Old Vor, but really, he was the first of the new. He changed with the times, from the tactics of horse cavalry to that of flyer squadrons, from swords to atomics, and he changed successfully. Our present freedom from the Cetagandan occupation is a measure of how fiercely he could adapt, then throw it all away and adapt again. At the end of his life he was called a conservative, only because so much of Barrayar had streamed past him in the direction he had led, prodded, pushed, and pointed all his life.

He changed, and adapted, and bent with the wind of the times. Then, in his age — for my father was his youngest and sole surviving son, and did not himself marry till middle age — in his age, he was hit with me. And he had to change again. And he couldn't.

I'm about a quarter of the way into the book and I'm having a really hard time getting into it. I've yet to find a character that's grabbed me and I keep getting the weird feeling that we're seeing all of this from the wrong view point.

It's still early so I'll keep chugging, but I keep having to fight to keep my attention from wandering.

For favorite characters it would be Breeze and Elend.

As for least favorite, that's really hard to say. I think overall Brandon Sanderson did a pretty god job with his characters.

Stefan wrote: "I think you hit it right on the head saying he is a product of his generation and his environment. His prejudices are part of who he is. I thought he showed a very different side of himself when he is running with Cordelia, Gregor and Bothari, and when he is interacting with the Major."

I think its another fine example of Bujold treating everyone as people with their own strengths and weaknesses. It is an aspect if her writing I really enjoy.

As far as learning more details about Piotr's life in later books....no, not really. 99% of the details I gave in my previous post came right out of Barrayar. I think a minor bit dealing with the Cetagandan invasions came from other books, but nothing of any detail.

I'm glad Mountains of Mourning is available for people. I really recommend reading it at some point between The Warrior's Apprentice and Memory.

-- Edited. Had listed The Vor Game instead of The Warrior's Apprentice

Stefan wrote: "Droushnakovi --- unable to enter the military because of her gender, but very strong, very talented, and throughout the novel she's in key positions to affect the story... even though she's perceived as a "weak woman"."

It is interesting, but while Barrayar culture considers women weak, none of them, at least that we see, are actually weak. In many ways, they are stronger, since they must survive without the social advantages of their male counterparts.

I agree, there is a strong theme of those perceived as weak being quite strong on their own ways. I've often wondered how this shapes Miles' personality, though I suspect this is a conversation best held off to later books.

Piotr was very much a product of his generation and environment. Barrayar was low tech and low resources (the planet is still not completely terraformed) and in many ways backwards in their society, partially I suspect due to lack of resources. They have relatively recently re-entered galactic civilization.

The planet and its people had been ravaged by two long invasions from the far superior Cetaganda. Mutation was an important factor on a low tech, backwater, low resource planet. Add Cetaganda nuking them til they glowed and their fondness for genetic manipulation, it is no wonder there is fear of mutants. Remember, in this time it is still accepted behavior for people to kill their children at birth if they have any visible mutations, no matter how minor. Pity we're not reading Borders of Infinity. The short story "Mountains of Mourning" shows the real impact of this mindset and it is down right heart breaking.

Piotr became a General at the age of 22 during the second Cetaganda war. His wife was murdered on the first day of Mad Yuri's War when death squads massacred descendants of Prince Xav. Aral and his cousin Padma Vorpatril were the only survivors. Aral was age 11 when his mother and older brother were murdered in front of his eyes for nothing more than political gain.

Piotr spent a very significant portion of his young and adult life fighting for his life, his family, his district, and, above and beyond all of those, always for his Emperor.

Is he a hard ass? Absolutely. He's been forged on the anvil of bloodshed and war. The man has sacrificed and suffered more than any of us could even imagine. Not for his own personal gain, but for his world and his Emperor. Always for the Emperor.

Piotr's prejudices are no worse then any others on that world. As Cordelia said, Barrayar eats it's children, including Piotr himself.

I morn for the man. But, more importantly, I morn for who he may have been but was not allowed to be.