P. Pherson’s Comments (group member since Nov 27, 2024)

P. Pherson’s comments from the Fantasy group.

You can put Conan, Kull, Red Sonja, and just about every barbarian fantasy into low fantasy.

Well...its not like there is some law that says "Thou shalt not make a category of things". To me, Romantasy feels like romance in a fantasy setting. Such that, the fantasy aspect is secondary, and not the seed of the story.

But...to what purpose do you need these categories? If you are making, like, bookshelves....I dont care if you use Romantasy.

Progression fantasy, I think, follows from LITRPG, where character's grow in strength and abilities over the course of their adventures. Dragon Ball comes to mind as being this. I might say, The Deed of Pakksenarion, is also progression fantasy.

For my own story, I will confess to some difficulty at placing it in a category. I typically go with Epic Fantasy, but...I could argue many other labels, such as Low Fantasy (not a lot of magic), Dark Fantasy (a lot of bad stuff happens), Sword and Sorcery (lots of sword play), and progression fantasy (many of the characters grow and change over the tale). I could also go for Chickslash (girl with a sword), Faith based fantasy (for religious themes), mythic fantasy (lots of gods and myths), and Romantasy (there is a romance). Which is to say....finding the right category is sometimes best served by the top level, fantasy. It is a fantasy story.

In a very broad sense, anything that is not true is fantasy, and since its impossible to capture truth, everything is fantasy ;)

Those categories all look good to me. Generally, you will find most stories fit in more than one category (as you already said). A good listing of categories is mostly just to help guide publishers and marketers and readers into something they may like, but many stories are not written with what category it fits into in mind.

There are a bunch of categories that could be added, but is such definition required? There are a lot of Punk genre's that fall under the umbrella of Fantasy.

I'm not sure about Romantasy though...as that is Romance combined with Fantasy. Romance and Fantasy are already their own categories. By this measure, we could just make an endless list of Horantasy, Scifantasy, Mystantsy... or any combination of any classification. Romantasy just flows better when said.

Good job Dave, and welcome here.

I've been all over the US, most recently Hawaii, and I think I have been to every state but Alaska, but...I've not been much out of it...

My sister and her husband live on a boat and have traveled much of the world though. I don't think they've gone across the Pacific, but certainly the Atlantic.

Well...I have audible. I have a plan where I get a credit every three months. And I have some unspent ATM.

They are both Amazon, and I think they are similar. With Kindle Unlimited, I think you get to read any book you want, so long as there is a kindle edition, and the Author has put their book into the Kindle Select program. Otherwise, they are just generally cheaper. People in Kindle Select get paid by number of pages read, which equates to something like $.02 per five pages or so, from collective collection of the subscription fee.

With Audible, I would get credits which I can use in lieu of paying for a book, but not every book is free. If some are listed for free, then those are free to take.

PS: I both hate writing and reading battles. Mostly, the blow by blow does not matter, and only the outcome is story relevant. But...sometimes they cant be helped. For myself, I try to use battles to show things about the characters, and as the story gets deeper in, I can get away with skipping to the end more, as the characters are more known quantities.

I think the only one I read in Nov was Forged in Gold.

Its a tale about a deposed queen, forced into exile, and trying to regain her throne. Along the way, she makes new friends and allies, and has a romance ;)

The Author is someone I know from a different website.

I would like to finish my current one, and start on Sword of Kaigon by the end of the month.

Well...I don't really read a lot of romances, but I like romances in my stories. I think characters work better in contrast, so I expect enemies to lovers would be preferred--though I might say something more like ....no way becomes yes way...than enemies.

Personally, I am a softie for when the right people get together, and I can tear up at those warm emotional moments ;)

As a writer though, I don't write tropes. I don't come up with idea and think 'hmmm...I wonder what tropes I can fit into this?' I actually don't think of them at all. To me, it seems like a buzzword for discounting stuff into a box, and not really giving it due appreciation.

More so, I just try to write things in a genuine way. So, if the characters are getting romantic and doing romantic things, I want that to be born out of the events and growth of character in the story. That it may match a pattern that others have done before is just cause a lot of stuff matches stuff that has been done before--but at the same time, its also unique to its story, and, for me, at least, I want it to stand on its own.

Two characters who have love, and it shows in who they are...that will hit my warm spot, trope or not.

Jabotikaba wrote: "P. Pherson wrote: "I am actually wanting to know what Pakksenarion's 'deed' actually is. I am not sure it has shown up yet. But....I do like following the character. The book is not good at getting..."


If I find it, I will let you know. Like I said, for me, this is mostly like homework to read. Many people like this book, but I am not sure what really hooked them. Maybe it came out at the right time in the right place, or maybe the book picks up and rewards the effort. Where I am at, its not really showing a conflict...more like a wandering RPG type thing, where stuff appears, and they deal with it, and then another thing appears... We'll see.

I recall not being very interested in book 1. Book 2 is more interesting so far, IMO.

I read Game of Thrones quite a long while ago. While I do recall the characters and events, I dont remember anymore who was my fav. I remember the books more for its style and structure than I do for its characters. I do recall that I thought it did them well. I think, I liked Eddard the best, but...he was not a survivor of the book.

Yeah...I would like to read faster, cause I feel like everyone reads faster than me. But then I head tales like 'I bought this book at the airport and was finished before we landed' and I am like...How can anyone read at that speed and know what they were reading? I want to be immersed, and understand what happened. I feel if my pace was greater, I would just miss a lot. That's not the goal.

Yes...I tend to be long winded.... And my posts dont get 500 rounds of editing like my books do.... So, they may get long... but then...its not really a crime to have long posts, so long as they stay worth reading ;)

I hope you enjoy the tale, if you do read. The story is harsh at times (specially the opening), but without the harshness, it would not be able to say what it is trying to say. But I do not like to poison the well, if you do read, I would like you to draw your own opinions/conclusions, and hear what it meant from you, and not me saying what it meant from the outside. So...I wont talk about it much.

As I understand from what you wrote above, the main problem with male and female characters in fantasy is that the genre was originally created by men and for men. Conan the Barbarian was a man, not a woman, and the Keepers in LOTR were all males, too (although girls try to change that when they write their Legolas fanfics).

This is close. I would say instead, that the origin is not how the genre was created, but that the human experience has been this way. Men have traditionally been the protectors, and the women the nurturers. Before there were stories, there were cavemen who needed to believe they could fight monsters, and women who needed their men to be good at it. And from that well, much of everything else flows.

While it is true that even men cannot do the things Conan could do, it is/was important for a community to have men who would attack their monsters, and even give their lives, for the protection of all they cared for. This becomes rooted in their stories, and in the psyche of earlier peoples long before Conan showed up, or LOTR. One needs only read the Epic of Gilgamesh (our oldest surviving written work) to see this present even there. (And I don’t read Legolas fanfics ;))

So, I would not say, fantasy was created for men, by men, but that fantasy is born out of the male power fantasy, where male power was important to show prevailing over our early mythical creatures. And that Female power fantasy is born of a different need, more aligned with female concerns. Such as is seen in romance, where men become devoted, supportive and protective because of her great qualities...charm, intelligence, spunk, wittiness...but not often her physical ability to defeat monsters.

Anyway, traditionally in fantasy it was the men who fought the wizards and dragons, and the women just sat on their soft butts and waited to be rescued. But then times changed, and now female authors are writing stories where female characters do the same thing, and a beautiful damsel in distress in their books is now elegantly transformed into a handsome knight in the same situation.

Definitely true that more and more are wanting to write women in heroic roles. The damsel role was a natural extension of the male power fantasy, there to require saving, appreciate the effort, and be the reward. I can understand why women do not see them as like themselves, cause...real people are not that way, But...if I flip that to romances, there is a reason men dont think the men in romance novels hit the mark either.

There is a strong push now to show more women in leading/actiony roles. I can point to a lot of reasons why, but there is no denying it. There is also no denying that a great many women have done heroic things in the past, so the older portrayals are getting their comeuppance. (But...even if the portrayal is getting its scrutiny today, it's not entirely fair to say there is not some truth in it.)

But the problem is that the new tradition was not a real change from the previous one. It was just turned on its head, and nothing really changed. If before the female characters were written as stupid and inferior dolls, now the male ones are. But both traditions are equally boring, so nothing has really changed. If you pick up an object, turn it upside down and put it back, it is still the same object.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Good observation. Thanks for that.

I think there are two good solutions to this situation.

The first is that if a writer creates a very strong and brave female character who fearlessly fights bad guys and chops off dragon heads, he should create a male character who is equally strong and brave.

Given that we live in a world where there are often good rules, and then there are exceptions to every rule, I think, in practice, this solution will not work out too well. Men and women are not equal, or more accurately, they are not equally powerful in the same ways (I do think they are equally powerful, with some give or take for various renditions). To show them as such in a story, will ring untrue before it ends.

The second option offers a more complex, but also more interesting solution to the same problem. Who says that being strong and brave only means fighting bad guys and chopping off dragons' heads? Courage and strength can be demonstrated in many different ways.

You would never see me saying that being strong only means fighting bad guys (though my MC does fight bad guys...). This is more the direction I would want to go. I would look for the different ways individual characters are uniquely powerful (or in need of strengths) and try to show them uniquely that way. But...it is fair to say, in these types of conversations, people do tend to think in terms of who can cut off the dragon's head... So, I am pleased to see you went past that ;)

I did read all of your examples, and I can say, you are more well-read than I. But, I never doubted that there are books out there that do these things well. Some I may agree with more than others, but I can't say when I will ever read them. It's good to know and hear about them though. They may be just want I need when I go looking for what can fix what I'm writing. I can also point to my own examples where I think people took on this challenge and did it well. Many of them helped to shape my own writing (least thats the hope).


Happy Thanksgiving all, I am off to do some food stuff.

Yes, Mrs. Moon is/was a military type.

Pakks is most common in the book. I already dont remember her father. But even that name is good enough.

The first novel length thing I ever wrote as during the time I was in the army, and....in it, I did have a lot more detail squad movements and survival skills. When I read this book, I do see a lot of similarities in it, particularly in army formation and an understanding of rank and what it means. I also see a lot of Mrs. Moon's dungeons and dragons influences in the story. It is easy to see that she was a gamer and a military type.

I was unware of this book until a beta reader of my first story said it had similarities, so....I went out to read it. I had some confusion though, as I thought the book was "the Deed of Pakksensarion" when in fact that is the title of three books combined together. I had that as a giant tome on my desk, but I did the audio book of the first one and wondered why it seemed so unfinished.

Now I get it. I only had book 1, sheepherders daughter. I am now reading divided allegiance, which is book 2.

I am actually wanting to know what Pakksenarion's 'deed' actually is. I am not sure it has shown up yet. But....I do like following the character. The book is not good at getting to the real conflict though. I am not sure what that is. Its more like....watch a character slowly become a Paladin. So...okay.

The book is older. Came out in the 1980's. Does it matter? A good book is a good book.

In the years since, there are additional Pakk's books, but I will probably stop at the third.

Yeah... I cant recall the last book I read that was just so terrible that I would ward others away...least not published ones, but many are just not for me. With the right audience, they might still be a hit.

But life is short...I cant finish them all.

Wheel of Time was one for me. I started and stopped 3 times before I finally slogged my way through it. For me, I just could not get interested. I had no interest in Rand, and I thought it was wordy, and the man/woman dynamic was...well...bad. But a lot of people love them, so....

I do feel for Mr. Jordan though. To get 9 books in, and die of cancer with the story unfinished. That hurts even me.

Hey All,

My Book, The Eye of Ebon, will be free on Kindle this weekend, fri-sun, if you should have any interest.

It is a tale about two women fighting against the shadow in a dangerous land. One is finding her faith, the other contends with her feelings over a foreign captain, and wrestles with herself over duty to and the needs of her own land.

Little on the gritty side. I would think it between pg13 and R...so 15 and over I guess.

Can I answer this and not get in trouble?

I mean... I know a lot of authors and all of them write characters of either gender. Some do it seamlessly well, and others dont. I will attest that it is not only possible for one to write the other, but it happens frequently every day.

One of my female author friends made the observation that male authors tend to focus on things and utility...like the stuff people carry...a sword, a knife, and Female authors tend to give more attention to the way people are affected by actions and occurrences, and of course, put more of their female centric sexuality into their characters...

When I recently read A Court of Thorns and Roses, I did notice Mrs. Maas's great attention for things like food items, place settings, the way rooms looked, and people's manners...I can say, for my own writing, I would not be greatly interested in such stuff...I tend to focus on what matters to the POV character and what matters to the story and scene. If the red pillows of a room dont matter, I dont tend to draw attention to them.

Perhaps there is a lesson there, and perhaps its just a different between me and her.

I will say, I am not sure I agreed with her assessment, but I filed it away.

I write mostly a female character and I work very hard to make her something that can be related to. She is not there to be a doll or be pretty. Most of the women in my stories do not get lavish descriptions of their appearances, and their outfits would be considered modest. They are just people trying to deal with the difficulties of the world in a very challenging environment that would require a display of grit from anyone it was put before.

I find, the biggest thing that gets done poorly in fantasy stories, is that the women are not portrayed as very feminine in the effort to make them tough and capable, and the men are made unmanly so as not to steal their scenes. I think this is a problem for Fantasy in general, as fantasy is more of a male power environment, and women competing in those roles often do so in a way that stretches credulity. I find this same thing occurs in romance to the male characters. Its just not a genre that is well suited for an accurate portrayal of men. In many fantasy stories, where the effort is to show the women as strong and kicking butt, the men are often made artificially weak, or fade into the background. The number one thing I personally don't like to do while reading, is to be saying "BS" a lot. But, I tend to say that a bit if the story does not get this right.

But I am hard to please. Individual tolerance may vary.

I suppose I will end by saying, there are a lot of differences between men and women, but as authors (artists), we must put on a lot of hats, and while this may at times be a hurdle, its certainly in the realm of human capability to convincingly write things we are not. I am sure many have done this already. I hope that as people read my own stories, they will think that I have succeeded at this as well. I am personally not feminine. But...I do enjoy the puzzle of adopting that brain to write my character. All characters will always be something less than 100%, no matter what we do. Its just not possible to capture everything there is to know about all that goes on inside them.

Well...the only book I read in October as called Empire: Country...so that...

Its was a strange story that seemed like traditional meandering fantasy and quickly turned into Cthulhu horror.... I was not expecting that.

I think it might be, The Saviors Champion, but I also think I will eventually finish it. For me, I got what I wanted from it, and find the story kind of predictable, so I feel I pretty much know it already.

My own, of course. I'd love to know what it is like to just be a reader and not know what is coming.

I think Huck Finn, maybe. I avoided that book for so long, but it greatly impressed me when I finally read it. I was not expecting to ever like it.

Occasionally, I do. It is not unusual for me to have one Audio book and one Paper book going at the same time.