Andree’s Comments (group member since Feb 02, 2014)

Andree’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Can anyone tell me what the relationship is between the Lady in Pink and the Uncle? I feel like I must be tremendously confused, because that phrase about "that kind of woman" makes it sound like ..."

If my memory of La Recherche is any good, it is never said, but implied, that the Lady in Pink, might very well be Oncle Adolphe's mistress. I also think there is a question, never answered, that it might also have been a younger Odette, which would hardly be surprising.

Jonathan wrote: "Martin wrote: "Jonathan, this comment struck me as well, because we have all known folks who bask in their misery; they brag of their ailments and like nothing more that we "approve" and commiserat..."

And the character of Aunt Leonie is not without reminding us of Proust's lifestyle, who chose at the end of his life an existence of seclusion not unlike his fictional aunt's.

Jonathan wrote: "It's believed that Bergotte is based on Anatole France. I've heard of him but has anyone read anything by him?"

Bergotte would be, according to what I read a fusion of Anatole France, of course, but also John Ruskin, Léon Daudet, Ernest Renan, Paul Bourget, Henri Bergson and Proust himself. Except for Proust, I'm afraid I haven't read any of the above. I started France's "La rôtisserie de la Reine Pédauque", but it fell off my hands.

Jonathan wrote: "Tor wrote: "I sometimes wonder how Proust gets away with using such a verbose style. Why do even modern readers accept it, even love it? (I do too, 99% of the time.) Maybe it's because it enhances ..."

Interestingly, studies of La Recherche have come to the conclusion that only one third of Proust's sentences can be considered long, but they obviously make a strong impression. There has been the theory that his longer sentences followed the labored rhythm of his asthmatic breathing, well...it's a theory.
And Proust's sentences are not any longer than Rousseau's.

And, as you start your Proust journey,Sunny, I will start mine into "War and Peace" which, to my great shame, I have never read. Enjoy "Swann's Way!"

Well, relationships between men and women have changed since la Belle Époque or at least we hope they have, although I'm not so sure about France who still shrugs over the antics of a DSK. You have to understand that we are talking here about a different culture, different times and a very different attitude towards infidelity. After all Swann was a single man, acting very much as a man of his time, and the fact of his being "unfaithful" shouldn't preclude his ability of being jealous at the same time. One is about sex, the other about love.
That being said, "Swann in Love", the novel within the novel, though apparently written from the point of view of the omniscient narrator, still depicts the character of Swann from the point of view of the Narrator himself. If Swann is a composite of different people Proust has known, he is also very much Proust himself, inasmuch as his insane jealousy is concerned. You will find in further volumes that his relationship to women (or men disguised as women) is a reflection of Swann's obsession for Odette.

Don´t get depressed anybody. If you keep on reading La Recherche, you will meet with Swann and Odette again.

I think that it becomes quite clear when one studies the tone and words with which Proust depicts the Verdurin and their little `"nucleus" that he mercilessly ridicules and satirizes them and has nothing but contempt for those rich bourgeois with cultural pretensions.
Throughout La Recherche, Swann comes across as much above all of them.
Of course, he cannot be accepted by the Verdurin clan since he confronts them, without having to say a word, to their own mediocrity.

Very perceptive intuition about Forcheville. Odette's affections, you will find, are not about sentiments.

By the way Jonathan, there is a companion book to Proust's secret gardens, albeit not titled 'Botany in Proust' and written in French. It's called "LE JARDIN SECRET DE MARCEL PROUST" by Diane de Margerie.
I'm afraid it hasn't been translated.

http://www.abebooks.com/JARDIN-SECRET...

I think that theme recurs fairly often in the description of Swann's obsession for Odette. An obsession he doesn't quite understand himself as she is not her type, he doesn't find her particularly pretty, And yet, without feeling the initial desire that a beautiful woman would normally inspire in him, he still falls madly in love with her, probably because of her elusiveness and mystery, qualities that have always been irresistible to Proust himself.

One thing I find interesting in Moncrieff's translation is his mentioning Swann's age as 50, which he probably might have been. The original French version however only mentions "at an age when it would appear--since one seeks in love before everything else a subjective pleasure-".

It is assumed that that woman (Morel's aunt) had been a "concierge". I only have the French version in which it says that "elle devait avoir tiré le cordon", meaning that as a concierge she must have pulled a cord meant to open the door and let the tenants in or out.
So you were right in your interpretation that she must have belonged to a modest class .