Traveller’s Comments (group member since Sep 15, 2013)

Traveller’s comments from the Foucault's Pendulum group.

Jonfaith wrote: " I like how Casubon baits the woman in a controversialist manner, just as opinion remained so flexible concerning the Templars. "

Yes, and she didn't even know exactly what she was rallying for --it was all catch-phrases-- and it was simply assumed people would support whatever her vague cause was.

Dolors wrote: " It seems to me as if Eco is blatantly using his cleverness and erudition to play Tom and Jerry and "disinform" rather than "enlighten" the reader. "

I think he is absolutely playing a cat and mouse game with us, Dolors! I think that he plays just a little bit of devil's advocate here and there, and that he makes subtle jokes that you'll pick up if you know what he's referring to...

J. wrote: "I am aware Eco himself sports a rather full chin-bush, but I wonder whether this was always the case for him, or if his preference changed with the times. "

I've seen photo's of him with various fulness beards. Maybe he's just saving time on shaving. ;)
Re beards; they also have some religious significance, for instance some Judaic sects believe that men (or that may be people generally, though women don't really count so much :P) should not cut their hair, and therefore not shave their beards; there is also some mystical reason why the head should be covered. I should look it up, apologies for being lazy right now.

Ruth wrote: "I'm surprised that pataphysics did not come up in the discussion for courses in the School of Comparative Irrelevance, or did I miss it?"

Pataphysics sounds like just the kind of thing that Eco would come up with. :D

Btw, I the loved courses in the School of Comparative Irrelevance. Eco is obviously having a lot of fun. I vote that we have some too, and come up with our own courses.

Ruth wrote: "Beards have come up a couple of times so far. I only noticed it because they are in quotes I marked. The first is in Chapter 11: You are God, you wander through the city, you hear people talking ..."

Ah, thanks for mentioning that, Ruth. It was in fact one of the things I had wanted to comment on; but I mentally mark so many things to comment on, that I forget half of them again by the time I reach my PC.

The remark that I had wanted to make about the beards, is that actually what Eco is commenting on there fits in with Eco's interest in semiotics. The 'beard as a symbol' is a good example of one of the codes you find in semiotics, namely, it would fall under social codes. (Remember that semiotics is the study of signs, codes and how they convey meaning.)

Dolors wrote: " I can't wait to meet this Lorenza Pellegrini to actually see whether she is really a muse, a kind of Sophia-widsom like archetype or if Eco is playing one of his games and the character turns out to be something completely opposite to what they apparently seem. In a sense, this female character might also be another conduit to present once more Eco's constant juxtaposition between wisdom and science. "

Oops, okay I remember now that you'd commented already about the inscription on Lorenza's photograph. I'd say that deepens the foreshadowing about Lorenza, deepens the mystery around her and the possibility that he might be using her as a symbol.

About the password: it made me laugh out loud in appreciation and enjoyment. I loved it. It so nicely demonstrates Eco's whacky sense of humor.

@ Ema: Thanks for your hard work on the Metacyclosynchrotron, both you and Ruth. So the word seems three-quarters rooted in truth/astrophysics and a quarter in supercalifragilisticexpialidociousness. :P

Thanks Ruth. Yes, I'm sure about the Joinville, but the Ariosto, although a chronicler of adventures such as the Crusaders and Templars would have had, does seem to have a lived a bit later.

I'm not too sure what Eco/Casaubon is trying to point out with the comparison.

Just to be clear about which bit I had meant, it's this one:
(view spoiler)[ Freely associating, I went from Dufy to Guillaume Dufay. I had the impression of being in a Flemish miniature. In the little crowds gathered on either side of the marchers, I glimpsed some androgynous women waiting for the great display of daring they had been promised. But all this went through my mind in a flash, as if I were reliving some other experience without recognizing it.

"It's the taking of Ascalon, isn't it?" Belbo said.
"By the lord Saint James, my good sir," I replied, "this is truly a Crusaders' combat! I do believe that this night some of these men will be in paradise!"
"No doubt," Belbo said. "But can you tell me where the Saracens are?"

"Well, the police are definitely Teutonic," I observed, "which would make us the hordes of Aleksandr Nevski. But I'm getting my texts mixed up. Look at that group over there. They must be the companions of the Comte d'Artois, eager to enter the fray; for they will brook no offense, and already they head for the enemy lines, shouting threats to provoke the infidel!"

That was when it happened. I don't remember it that clearly. The marchers had started moving, and a group of activists with chains and ski masks began to force their way through the police lines toward Piazza San Babila, yelling. The lion was on the move. (hide spoiler)]

There's something I've been wanting to mention about the conversation in the pub where Casaubon is telling the others about the Templars. About when the girl comes around with pamphlets where they should protest for 'our comrades in prison'.

I think one of the things that Eco seems to love doing, is to interweave present and past and sort of juxtapose/compare the present with the past. In this case the girl's interruption fits in with the subject matter at hand, being the Templar's trial and imprisonment.

Later on, Eco does it again with the anti-fascist demonstration in Milan, doing the opposite of juxtaposing past with present, where Casaubon & co juxtaposes/mingles present with past.

(view spoiler)[I always knew I had a soft spot for comics and the pulps, but eh, I never knew that submarines could be so fascinating. Okay, maybe I always had a subconscious passion for them, heh.

And let's not go all Freudian now... (hide spoiler)]

Ruth, I'm starting to think we should keep track of specific themes. "Wisdom" certainly seems to be one of the themes. If only one could create a deeper hierarchy of files on the GR groups, we could perhaps have somehow set up a separate section for each of the Sephira, to try and keep things tidier. I wonder if we should have broken the discussion into more threads?

Totally (fun) sidebar comment : (not a spoiler)
(view spoiler)[
BUT! Did you check out the link? (hint: You'll need lots of time for it)

http://gcaptain.com/mm-may-fourteen-t...

???
I thought it was mega-cool, though I've only had to time to quickly browse through the images, I haven't had time to read the articles yet. (hide spoiler)]

I'm on a roll now, sorry!







Underwater in an imaginary sense, perhaps?

Ok, and check this out. It's just cool. http://gcaptain.com/mm-may-fourteen-t...

And this: http://www.arts-et-metiers.net/

Well, might this help, perhaps?







Keeping in mind that we're probably talking a fairly old submarine here- among the first ones, in fact, it might look close to the last pic.

I think in an old submarine, the inside of the 'bridge' (or tower) area might be this "sentry box" that Casaubon refers to. Or that's what I had assumed when I read it.

LOL, look at this:

Ruth wrote: "Can anyone visualize a 'sentry box for a periscope'? I can only picture periscopes on a submarine....a sentry box there seems redundant."

Well, I would assume that the cubicle designed for looking through the periscope of a submarine, would be a 'sentry box' per se. I'd have assumed that's what they call the little space/room /cubicle from which you look through the periscope's lens or whatever you call it that you look through, and had assumed as a matter of course that it is a submarine periscope that we're talking about. So basically, Casaubon climbed into the submarine, or there is a periscope cubicle or sentry box taken from a submarine that's been put on view in the museum.

Ruth wrote: "Looking around I found this comment in another website http://bluehighwind.blogspot.se/2011/... asking the same question:
It's a play on [words], and please forgive me if I d..."

Ha, I was just going to say that it looks as if Eco didn't do a China Mièville on us (since CM's little Easter Eggs are always verifiable) and then you posted that epiphany! So the word definitely has a verifiable root. And a very interesting and, it seems, relevant one, thank you so much for that, Ruth!

Well good! I'm glad to hear that you had reached your November goal and congrats on that. Good luck with the rest, Ruth. :)

Btw, sadly we still don't seem to have found the meaning of "Metacyclosynchrotron " ? Or is it hiding somewhere on the pages I had linked to?

I guess the Sophia discussion will hold out until we know more, but for now, I find Ruth's observation about wisdom/tradition vs science interesting.

Oh, and btw, I'm glad to see you made it to the discussion, Ruth! I hope your NanoWriMo went well.

When he talks of Ariosto and Joinville, I think it is of this Joinville: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_...

and this Ariosto : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludovico...

, although I may be wrong about the latter. I'd be glad if anyone who knows better could correct me on that.

Yes, people, please don't forget to read under the spoiler tags in message 1. :) I put it under the tags mainly to keep to the thread a bit shorter.

Re the history Causabon gives us of the Templars: I have a film called Soldier of God, which is almost a literal depiction of what we read in Chapter 13. Well, the 'story' is different, but it depicts to a T the 'rules' the Templars were supposed to follow.

Our world has changed in so many ways, actually, now with the digital age and globalization. And there's the dichotomy of that although it's an age of specialization, there's also a melding and crossover of disciplines taking place.

Eco himself and his work is actually a good example, isn't it?

In his work we see a melding of history, linguistics, philosophy, literary criticism etc. among other things, and he has works published in the fields of semiotics, narratology, structuralism, linguistics, medieval studies and aestehtics among others.

Btw, have a look at this discipline and the bibliography shown there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computat...

Interesting, yes?

Well, now that is interesting, Michele! Thanks for explaining. You have indeed made it much clearer, and yes, I think it has changed our culture a lot.

A small example is how we now use flow diagrams now for everything, (like project management, for instance) not just programming.

I would guess something to do with psychology, perhaps? Sounds interesting.