Sue’s Comments (group member since Jan 21, 2020)

Sue’s comments from the The Obscure Reading Group group.

I finished a bit late but I’m very glad I read this. I really liked the book and it’s very different story. That time in Malaya was the end of an era, the beginning of the end of much of British colonial lands. I agree that the pacing of the first part of the book was more nicer, as it set the tone for and reflected so much of the story, from the descriptions of the rainforest environment to Endo-san and Philip’s sessions on the sand.

To me, the changed pace of Book Two was a natural part of what was happening, the change of pace in peoples’ lives, where they no longer had control anymore and acted out of fear, rebellion or revenge for the most part.

I also found that I accepted the framing device of Michiko’s presence too. It gave a sounding board for Philip to think out loud about the past. I think he was increasingly realizing that his actions hadn’t evened out as he had thought when he was younger. He was a collaborator but he also had tried to help others. Endo-san pulled him aside when he was young and alienated and set him on this course. I don’t know how he reconciled these sides of himself but his apparent belief in past lives seems to have helped.

All in all, a lot to think about.

Yes indeed, Kathleen.

Cindy, I haven’t quite finished yet so no worries.

Lydia, I had the same thought, wondering if the same home might have been the setting for both books. But there hasn’t been any mention of running water here that I have noticed or the integral water wheel.

My guess about the mist and rain would be their normal presence in a southeast Asian equatorial country. Malaya as described seems to be a rainforest. Apart from the reality of the presence of water, I suppose there are some life-affirming aspects of it too, though those will be challenged by the second half of the book.

I’m just about half done now, with Malaya feeling on the brink of war. It feels like it will be the end of an entire world, a lifestyle, and it will be, as the Huttons and others like them are really living a colonial life.

I have no problem with the structure of this novel either. Philip has led a strange life with, apparently, one central event. That adds to my willingness to accept his narration of the distant past. I have the feeling he has relived these moments many times over the years. It’s also that leap of faith I make to enjoy fiction all the time.

I’m behind on my reading and barely half way through the first section but I am enjoying this book. I read the author’s Garden of Evening Mists several years ago and loved it. Those characters also had enigmatic moments and facets.

I see Philip as an intelligent underachiever, a tabla rasa (?) for Endo-san to write whatever future he wants in whatever way he wants. He recognized exactly what he needed the afternoon they met. Philip was essentially alone even when his family was home and he appears quite naïve about the world. His father hasn’t prepared him for what is happening even in the time before the war.

I agree about the feeling of dread. Every time Endo-san draws their relationship closer, I am more fearful of what is going to happen and how soon. I have read some novels that have included details of Korean/Japanese interactions that were horrific and demeaning for Koreans. Pachinko and The Island of Sea Women are two. I think I have that second title wrong.

I have read the author’s The Garden of Evening Mists which I loved and thought was beautifully written. That’s why I voted for this one, actually.

I’m planning to get it from Overdrive this week and the library allows 3 weeks.

Oops, just read your full note and see we found the same result.

Yvonne, I never did find it on the app so I went to the website. Looks to me like the much vaunted app is no longer getting support.

Ken, where is the poll? I seem to have forgotten how to find it or missed a link.

I think that’s interesting too. I live in the suburbs, so betwixt and between. I do enjoy the pastoral descriptions but I also enjoy well done descriptions of city life. Both can be done so that the language is poetic but often the city is described in more utilitarian ways which don’t grab me. In this book, the city seems to be the center of unfaithfulness and negation where the country, or at least the towns was the place for (hoped for) rebirth, love, and the full country was true rebirth.

Take care, Yvonne, and thanks for sharing your great ideas. I agree that this novel does present much like a play at times. Quite theatrical. I’m reminded of the scene when the priest was coming for the blessing…the description of the altar set up. And the descriptions of the old home when Lavretsky first returned. And definitely, people’s faces.

I wondered about that too, but not enough to search through the book for descriptions of the child. How could Lavretsky possibly trust that the child was his. I recall trying to do the math while reading and finding there wasn’t enough information.

I can’t see Varvara as a symbol of progressive but rather of promiscuous. She made a point of being true to no one but herself. Possibly to her daughter. She had multiple affairs which would be why Lavretsky really didn’t know what had happened to her and could believe that newspaper article. Varvara may indeed be a more “modern” woman, an example of what a woman with money and no concerns about reputation can do or get away with. But I doubt all doors were open to her.

Yes! I enjoyed the way Turgenev delivered this type of dig, sometimes more gently than others. He could be mean but his victims always seemed to deserve what he threw their way.

Sara, I did include some examples in status updates during my reading and they can be found at my review. I can’t link from my iPad but will try to remember to do so later or copy some on to this page. I think I was a bit sensitized by having just finished reading another Dickens work and he sneaks so much into his character descriptions.

I don’t think the “fat seal” translation was used by Garnett. She probably found something more decorous. It certainly didn’t stand out like the seal must have done.

I think many of us have met a Panshin. Remember Wally Cleaver in Leave it to Beaver. I think he had a friend possibly named Eddy Haskell who always played up to the boys mother. And this was a sitcom from the 1950s. The type bridges cultures. Somehow they seem to believe that they will benefit at a later point. Of course he later had his fun with Varvara.

I enjoyed Turgenev’s snide side comments slipped into character descriptions and sections of activities. He knew his characters and added to our full understanding.
The characters, for me, seem to represent different aspects of Russian society of the time, including the various parents and servants who have lived in various places and levels of society.

Sara, I like your assessment of Lisa very much. I was also thinking that obviously religion was important to some in the household or there wouldn’t have been the home service for the “special purpose.” Also Lisa already went to mass regularly and we observed her to be a serious young woman. She may have already been contemplating the convent.
I’m just remembering that Marfa mentioned her “cell” - her bedroom- as if she had called it that same name in the past.
This seems a very Russian situation to me, especially for a 19th century story.