Ashley’s Comments (group member since Jun 05, 2020)

Ashley’s comments from the #ClassicsCommunity 2021 Reading Challenge group.

This week was hard! What is the point of these chapters? Why did Edmond being a random guy to his secret home? Why are we being told this random story? Did we need to learn some history and certain things about Edmond? Are these characters going to be important later? What did you think of these chapters?

That’s really interesting. I wonder if it was intentional to make him seem younger. In times of peace, or at home in his comfortable situation, where he was in control with a wife and a soon to be new baby, it is easy to seem mature. Then you are thrown into war, especially with little experience (he is inexperienced right? Or did I miss something?) you seem infantile.

As I read the beginning chapters of part 2, I got a little excited, like “oh! I know him!” Or “I’ve seen him before!” I enjoyed getting to figure out where the characters were and what they were doing now.

I will have to find time to type up my sentences. I never posted the rest of part 1, so I’ll have to do that too!

You can discuss here. Most of us here do our discussing here even though some of us did find the FB group. It’s just been slow the last few days as we finish part 2

Has anyone read the whole series? This is my first time and I’ve finished Anne Of Ingleside. I feel like this was the sweet spot. Anne is so fun in the first book. It’s a true classic. Then this book is so fun to see her grow. Is it that I’m not in the right mood for the rest, or does anyone else agree that the books where she is older aren’t as magical and fun? I do like seeing Anne get married and have kids and make friends and be an adult, but it’s not as satisfying as this book! Or as LMMs other books actually. Emily was great the entire time. Blue Castle is brilliant. Others are also fun. Pat was the only one I didn’t love. I like the older Anne more than Pat, and I’m curious if it’s just bad timing for me to be reading these!

But, I LOVE Avonlea. I love how determined Anne is. I love how she sacrifices for others and works to get things done. She believes in her cause of the society and she won’t quit until others support it! She is a loyal friend and daughter and neighbor. Just so fun!!

I want to read all of Berry’s Port Williams novels. I have read Hannah Coulter and Remembering, but that is all. I don’t know the best way to do this. I’m considering making another group just for Berry, but maybe it’s best to keep it in a group that already exists. I’d like to get a lot of participation though, so I don’t know the best way to do that. Is anyone interested? It wouldn’t start until September at the earliest. Or do you know if anyone doing this already? I see a challenge on IG that started in January, but I’d like to be involved in one more toward the beginning. Thanks all!

This is true. You can save your own digital copies! That would be a good thing to do!

No I don’t think they will be banned anywhere in the developed west, but the books these people collect are getting harder to find because they are not being published. Sometimes it’s because they are offensive or something, but usually it’s that they don’t make money printing them. Lesser known and old titles don’t make money. Modern best sellers do. And eventually books get thrown out when schools or libraries or even booksellers don’t have space for them anymore. That’s not always a bad thing. Some books are outdated and we do need room for the things people use and want. But it is also a more subtle way to limit what people have access to. A type of censorship, even if unintentional. The good thing it we have companies like Google publishing digital copies of these books. But because they have control of them, one click and they are gone. You can’t get rid of hard copies of books in people’s homes (at least not in all countries). Internet Archive is a great source for free online books. But they recently got into some trouble for trying to make make books available during the pandemic than they were previously allowed to do and it broke some copyright rules and they are in danger of losing licenses to all sorts of books now. So I see the trouble in just relying on that. But I do agree with all you said. And I do think it’s a good discussion to have, even in a buddy read, as we are all educated adults who appreciate things like this. So I say share away!

Li He I don’t think I ever asked if you lived in China. You say your government and I’m not sure if that means your current government or not. China is so interesting, especially to Americans! So many people like to use it as a negative example in politics. And there obviously are things like censoring books. But we also can learn so much from not only the culture, but the society and political choices and things like maintaining a global virus. Interesting times. And interesting that they are still removing things. It happens here in the states too, but it’s much more subtle. I am in many social media groups that focus on “rescuing” (aka purchasing) old literature so that it does not get disposed of. These people have huge libraries full of books that most people have never heard of, some of which would be thrown away for being politically incorrect or offensive. I see the value of having these texts and do think it’s important to keep track of our history, including mistakes, but my purchasing decisions are much more practical for now- will I or my kids read it in the near future? We already have a huge library and I try to only being home things we are sure to use!

Lena we have already begun. Please catch up when you can if you want!

I wish I was educated enough to join in the language conversation! I can understand a fair amount of conversational Spanish, but that’s about it. My dad is fluent, but I haven’t lived at home for 16+ years, and I took classes in high school but stopped 18 year ago. I did purchase scriptures in Spanish a few years ago and started reading them, but haven’t gotten far. I should make it a priority again to read regularly. If I had the chance to read in the original language I definitely would. I understand that! I also understand reading a translation in a language you are working on mastering. So exciting!

I am way behind due to other reads, but I’m still plugging along and will be caught up soon as I only have 30 pages left in Brideshead Revisited and I finished 2 books last week, so I have more time!

When I read Anna Karenina, I remember thinking how amazing Tolstoy was because he was able to capture the thoughts of a woman so well. Not everyone can put themselves in the mind or body of another as well as he can. This came to mind again as I’ve been reading about all the love affair and “crushes” of the young people in the novel. I’m still settling into the read and has been thinking about how strange it is that this book about politics and war and mature things is focusing so much time on teenagers. Pierre and those young adults will obviously play a role in the main plots, but I’m pondering why the younger teens like Natasha and Sonya are included. As I thought I realized the same thing. Tolstoy is a master at relating the thoughts and experiences of young men (which he once was) and teenage girls (admittedly confusing- haha). It funny to hear of Sonya getting jealous of Julie and Nicholas chasing after her as she runs away crying. It’s something different that is not always included (at least in this way) in classic literature, especially that written by men. So I don’t have an answer as to why it’s included. But I do know Tolstoy is a master and brilliant and not many compare!

I also wonder about him coming back. It seems uncharacteristic if Dumas’ writing so far to just leave that as it was left. No explanation. I suppose we aren’t even told that it IS Dantes at that point. Are we just supposed to know? Is it explained later? Maybe.

I want to keep his helping phase in a nice bubble and revenge in its own time and part of the story. But I don’t think it’s that clean cut and it’s probably not supposed to be. He does help Morrel, but he does it in a round about way. He could have simply excused the debt, but it probably would have looked suspicious. I still would have almost preferred to see him obviously forgive them debt and help his friend to see the last bit of goodness before the revenge. I’m still stuck on that idea you brought up.

Anyway, all of that to get to Cauderrouse. It’s not clean cut as I wish it was. There was selfishness in wanting info. Edmond knew he could manipulate him because he wanted money. And his wife too. She’s prideful and not a happy person. But I also wonder if it’s partly to cause guilt. Make him feel bad for taking money from a man whose demise he helped instigate. Or did Edmond really not realize he was a part is the plan? I mean he knew he was there. He knew he did not stop it. He knew he was dunk. Does that make him not as accountable? Does Edmond forgive him some? Or is he playing games and starting the revenge? Those are the things going through my mind.

It sounds like we are all good to stick with the schedule. Let’s just keep on. I was just hoping to hear from everyone to see how it was going!

That’s interesting about leaving off all the good and moving onto revenge. I think it’s an important observation. I was wondering what you all thought of him helping Caderousse.

How is everyone doing? Minnie was ahead a month ago, where are you now? Is anyone else ahead? Should those of us barely keeping up with the schedule read faster so we can discuss more? Or are most of us on schedule? Who is still here?

I am having fun reading this section, knowing we are finishing up the first “part” and getting close to where Dumas stopped publishing for 6 months. I’m reading each chapter and thinking how I’d have to wait for the next publication if I were reading this in Dumas’ time. It makes some of the decisions make more sense. For example, chapter 26 has a lot of dialogue and waiting and deciding that wasn’t super necessary. Obviously everything is necessary to the creation of the story and is part of the art of a great writer/artist, but the same message could have been gotten across more quickly. However, it makes for an interesting self contained chapter. Each one has to stand on its own enough to satisfy the serial reader. But it has to leave you wondering what’s going to happen next. It’s a very interesting thing to consider and see how the story is structured differently than one that is written as one cohesive whole, published at once.

I’m re-reading Steinbeck for the first time since high school. Im blown away by how smooth he is to read also. I have read snippets of Joyce, but haven’t committed to him yet. Some day! I’d have to go back through GR reviews to jog my memory of other authors who’s “flow” I love!

His writing just flows. It’s beautiful, but not flowery or too prosaic. I do love prosaic writing. Sometimes I can drift off while reading and be enjoying the beautiful words, and then realize I have no idea what is going on. I was just reading pretty words. Haha. But I also like his style of writing. Simple and easy to read, but also well constructed and complex and beautiful. He doesn’t “write down” to the audience as if we were unintelligent. But he writes in a simple, beautiful way. I probably just repeated the same thing 8 times. But that’s the best I can do to explain!

Yes! I loved the quotes also! It’s so funny to me because I’m reading what you’re saying and I’m thinking “yeah that was there, but I didn’t care about it!” I read mostly classics. Or maybe I should say I always have a handful going as well as at least one nonfiction book. Then I throw in lighter reads (sometimes a modern memoir or popular fiction- but I’m super picky about those) when I feel the need for something different. Dickens is one of my all time favorite authors. I saw some of Dickens here. And I know they were friends (at least until a fight over this novel led to a separation). But it makes no sense to me why I didn’t connect to this. I’ve talked to a couple people about this and nothing they say is making me change my mind. I think the same thing I thought about what you said. I guess it’s just one of those things. We didn’t click!

Was it the romance that made you love it? Was there make depth to it for you? I can’t pin point why I didn’t feel connected to it. It was just ok for me. I don’t care for love stories, as I said. But I know there was more than that. I enjoyed the talk of the strike and the look into working conditions. But I’d love to hear more thoughts on why people liked it. I usually enjoy things make after talking about them!

I am about half way through Brideshead Revisited. I really like the writing!

Becky wrote: "I do agree with the line you quoted Ashley - “to learn is not to know; there are the learners and the learned. Memory makes the one, philosophy the other.” There is definitely a difference between ..."

All I am finding in my attempt to learn about his religious views are things he wrote or said. He wrote 2 lesser known Christian novels, one of which he never finished.

I also found this quote, which I think is actually from his son
“Here is Christianity with its marvellous parable of the Prodigal Son to teach us indulgence and pardon. Jesus was full of love for souls wounded by the passions of men; he loved to bind up their wounds and to find in those very wounds the balm which should heal them. Thus he said to the Magdalen: "Much shall be forgiven thee because thou hast loved much," a sublimity of pardon which can only have called forth a sublime faith.

Why do we make ourselves more strict than Christ? Why, holding obstinately to the opinions of the world, which hardens itself in order that it may be thought strong, do we reject, as it rejects, souls bleeding at wounds by which, like a sick man's bad blood, the evil of their past may be healed, if only a friendly hand is stretched out to lave them and set them in the convalescence of the heart?”

Here are my summaries of the first 10 chapters. I'd love to see the rest of yours too!

1) Anna Pavlovna and Prince Vasili, friends, talk about politics and the problems the prince is having with his sons, Hippolyte and Anatole.
2) Anna proudly introduces everyone at her party to her aunt and then continues to micromanage the conversations. Princess Bolkonskaya is pregnant and very upset her husband is leaving for war. Pierre looks for intellectual conversations where he can share his opinion (against the abbe).
3) Anna shows off her guests, the vicomte and the abbe, for their stories and political opinions. She breaks up a heated discussion between Pierre and the abbe.
4) Prince Andrew (Princess Bolkonskaya's husband) arrives and is annoyed by everyone except Pierre, then Princess Drubetskaya (Anna Mikhaylovna) begs Prince Vasilito to get her son Boris into the Guards.
5) Party guests debate whether Napoleon deserves the throne of France and whether Russia should get involved.
6) More political discussion at the party leads us to learn that Pierre is supposed to be picking a career, but is instead avoiding the military.
7) Princess Bolkonskaya confronts her husband about why he's been acting poorly toward her and why he insists on going to war with "no pity for me".
8) Prince Andrew lectures Pierre about not marrying because a woman will hold you down and prevent greatness.
9) Pierre goes to another party at Anatole Kuragin's to play cards. It turns into a drunken mess the involves a bear and Dolokhov doing a drinking stunt on the roof.
10) Princess Drubetskaya's son Boris get the promotion to the Guards. Countess Rostav tires of so many guests coming and going, but admits Marya Lvovna Karagina and they talk about the antics of the drunken bear party as well as Count Cyril's many alleged illegitimate sons (including Pierre).