Ashley’s Comments (group member since Jun 05, 2020)

Ashley’s comments from the #ClassicsCommunity 2021 Reading Challenge group.

It was kind of a shocking to see her beg him to come back and then she had all the influence. And he sat in the background. Is that what she wanted from him? Tolstoy doesn’t mention her feelings on the lack of intimate relationship with her husband, so it seems like she’s ok with things as they are. Or maybe I need to read further. Pierre responds as he did to the duel and the leaving his wife- he’s racked with guilt about it. And with the masons, he can’t be confident in his decision, even when he’s forcing himself to.

What does Helene show us about him? Is there more beyond book 6 (they get back together in book 5)? Or are you referring to their entire relationships a whole?

Pierre is such a strange character. So many of you felt a connection or fascination with hm from the beginning and I just didn’t. And he’s still all over the place. But I really like the perspective that it fits his character. There were clues that he might get to this type of place, so it makes sense. Tolstoy doesn’t so anything accidentally, so I’m sure he had this in mind and was building to it. It’s also interesting to consider all that’s happening in the context of why the book was written. Tolstoy was planning to write a book in more modern (to him) times, but felt he couldn’t without the background, so he went way back and wrote this entire story. He obviously thought it was very important. And it was interesting to him. So each detail is probably important to something.

I’m just plodding along. I have 3 long reads going, which is what has kept me from finishing any of them too soon. Though I am tempted to just finish one of them! I will grab my book and come back with thoughts later.

The last 2 weeks have been another test of my trust in Dumas. When we started the story about Franz and Albert I was bored because it seemed like it was not relevant. Then it was very relevant and I felt bad for not trusting the author. There have been some random stories the last few weeks that are similar. It’s hard to read slow because I want to see how they fit in. But when he went to Mercedes house!!! And she totally does a double take and it obviously stunned to see such a familiar face!! Oh wow! I remember the book being more revenge focused, but when I think about it, I don’t think it’s very likely I’ve read the unabridged version. I’m sure it was the abridged I read in my teen years. So it’s surprising how much is subtle and building, not an evil man bent on getting revenge. I used to say it was my favorite book, but again, I probably only read the abridged. When I started reading I wasn’t sure if it would stay up there, but now that we are around the half way point I know it’s going to be amazing.

I really want to know how much of this is almost satire. It seems such extreme situation that are just silly, but make you think or prove a point. We have talked about the relationships, but now I’m thinking about Pierres conversion and acceptance into the Masons. This book is so long, but he gets a short chapter about his decision, which he makes in one conversation with a random old guy. And then 2 longer chapters are dedicated to the induction process. There is a weeks time between his decision and the induction, so that doesn’t seem rushed. And he has the moment of doubt, but still goes through with it. I wonder if part of it is his stubbornness that he must stick to his decision. And I’m sure his guilt plays into it. But do you think Tolstoy purposefully has him all of a sudden believe in God? He can’t think that’s normal behavior right? He’s so in tune with how people think. So he must be creating another extreme example. I’m interested to see where it’s all going.

Oh! Now I’m thinking about the adoration of the leaders of war and countries. Obviously extreme and silly, so yes I really do think he’s doing this on purpose. Where do we turn our loyalty or admiration? Women/men? Heroes/leaders? God/religion?

Some day I’ll post summaries....but I’m not sure. Haha. I enjoy scanning others’ but not sure how valuable mine would be so maybe I should just keep them in my notebook. Haha.

Nelle Im in Book 5, as were some others a few days ago. I assume they are further along now. I know Li is reading ahead and is beyond Book 8. It’s kind of all over the place I suppose.

Wow Monte Cristo and Les Mis in a few months!! I read ales Mis with a group last year over 6 weeks. It’s amazing!! I’m also reading Count very slow (5 chapters a week) so it’ll take 5 or 6 months. It’s weird to read that slow because I put it off and then have to rush to catch up! Everything else is my priority when I pick something up to read.

I’m also reading War & Peace and David Copperfield slowly. Also some of Dickens short stories. I think the rest of the month will be finally getting to some more biographies/essays and more modern books (Circe, Wendell Berry....) I’ve been wanting to read

I enjoyed the teaser! It made me more excited to keep reading!

Do you think that’s true? I wonder if scientists know. I’m only mildly familiar with neurology and brain development. I would love to see a study about how brains have changed recently (last 100-200 years).

I definitely agree that experience ages us and that in that way youth have been more mature in different times. But I’m just talking about brain development. Youths do not have the ability to logically think things through the way adults do because their brains are not fully mature until their mid 20s. I’m not sure that has changed. Do you think it has? It seems to me that that’s more of an evolutionary process, which would take more than 100 years to shift drastically. Maybe it has slowly been lengthening with each generation, but I’m not sure how much change that really is. So that’s why I think it’s interesting to see these youth who are acting more mature and have had adult experiences because that is the cultural expectation, while they have the same biology as kids today- the inability to reason or have completely sound logic. So they are sent to war or getting married because it’s expected and they feel mature and it’s normal, but they still have these biological set backs.

Edit: they do it with marriage proposals and war. When I typed just war I was thinking “that’s not very funny. Why did I think it was funny?” Haha. It was the marriage proposals part and then the stark contrast to war- though they are using both to show how invincible they think they are, as teenagers always do. It’s very strange to consider all these other books with young people doing grownup things. We know it was more normal in times last because of a shortened life span . But we also know that brain development is the same across time. Our brains aren’t fully developed until our mid 20s. But when you die between 30 and 40, that doesn’t leave much time for mature thinking in life. Very interesting to consider the life span that is most natural for humans. That seems too short. Now we are prolonging life so long, it may get too long. There should be a happy medium where you have the luxury of enjoying your youth and enough time to be an adult with experience and appropriate development.

Oh man! Don’t do this to me!! I am reading slow and steady. Actually barely keeping up because this was a crazy month! I’m deciding whether to keep at the pace or make this book a priority and power through! I want to know what’s happening with Natasha though and don’t know if I can wait weeks for book 8!!! I really like her as a character and I like that description of her, that she knows how far she can go. She also warns her brother of his follies and seems to be level headed.

Your comment really made me laugh about not having bikes....so they do it with war. Sad, but kind of funny!

So I’m now comparing the ridiculous relationships between the young people with the hero worship. I wonder if this is intentional. The hero worship is exaggerated. And the relationships seem similar. Neither the young men or women can decide what they want. You have Helene and Pierre who married for who knows what reason. And Pierre admitting he didn’t love her from the beginning. He knew that, but married her anyway. Then Nicholas comes home and Sonya is all weird, giving him space. It’s probably smart not to tie him down right from the start and let him decide, but they are so awkward. They both know they love the other and they know the other loves them, but he’s off with prostitutes and partying and she’s....well....just being weird. Then Sonya and Natasha get proposals which they have no intention of accepting. Sonya is still holding strong to Nicholas. And Natasha at least is better than Pierre at not doing something stupid. She knows she doesn’t love Denisov, so turns him down. But it sounds like she might have accepted him if her mom didn’t help her see that she’s right to say no. I feel like Tolstoy is having fun writing these “silly” young characters. But I also am interested to see the message he is sending because he doesn’t do anything for fun.

Thanks! I am reading a few books that I’m trying to finish by the end of the month. I overloaded myself with big reads this month, so I haven’t given W&P the attention it deserves. I’m glad we’re reading it together so I can process more of it.

I also agree that the hero worship is presented in a sarcastic, almost mocking way. It seems purposefully over done. I’m interested to see where it goes. And a rediscovering of Russian patriotism or love would be interesting.

Was there a conversation in the first part where Andrew talks about Napoleon. Why is Napoleon his hero? It says that at the end of the 3rd part. All these characters as so funny the way they idolize these leaders and would do anything to talk to them or be near them!

I always read a lot of books, by never this many novels at once! And definitely not this many longer reads at once! It felt so familiar, but I couldn’t think of who Franz or Albert would have talked to about the windows! That makes so much make sense! They overheard it. It seemed obviously connected to the freeing of the man, but that whole story line was also obvious in and of itself that it didn’t *need* another secretive things. Oh well.

I enjoyed this week more then last, as I’m getting used to the new characters and I just like Dumas writing. I hope I’m giving him the right amount of hope. With Les Mis everything was beautiful and valuable, even if it was a chapters long tangent, so I just keep holding out that this random building up is important. Of course we see the connection now, but did we need the huge build up? Maybe in the end I’ll decide!

So I’m only reading this on weekends since we’re reading slow. Because of that I think I have forgotten a detail. I don’t understand the comments about the draperies in the windows of the Counts home that Albert and Franz keep referring to. It sounds vaguely familiar like they might have been told something in last weeks chapters, but I’m reading too many books to keep the details straight I guess. Help!

I haven’t started book 3 yet, but I’m not sure I agree that he seems younger. At the beginning of book 2, yes. When we first see him in the army he’s not established, but by the middle as he’s chosen to send the message of victory and then runs back thinking he can save everyone, he seems more mature. Unless you’re suggesting that his overblown ideas (like saving everyone or trying to gain prestige) are him being immature. I can see that argument and I agree. He’s an interesting character. And I feel bad for his wife. Though she doesn’t seem like a peach herself!

I did wonder about the Villefort comment, but I didn’t catch anything else connecting them. I kind of want to go back and skim for names now! That’s interesting. I hope they are connected in some way instead of just a tangent, though I see the character building happening. It just doesn’t seem necessary unless he’s building up to something.

And I don’t recall any mention of Sinbad being Edmond. We are just left to assume. I think it makes more sense to the modern reader because we know where her story is going. These chapters left crumbs for us to connect the dots between all the names and then establishes the title Count if Monte Cristo, but it’s all a slow reveal, so I wonder if it’s like you said and just obvious to everyone. Sometimes I wish we could be alive while these things were being written! I grew up as Harry Potter grew up and had to wait for books and movies to be released, but it’s not quite the same as a classic like this or Dickens!

I suppose he goes and gets the treasure on the island, which would make a current reader make the connection with Edmond and the abbe. So I wonder if all these things were clues that added up or if it was just as obvious as it is to us.

Ok I hadn’t finished chapter 35 when I commented. It seems that chapter is to establish The Count of Monte Cristo the name and the character and to make sure the reader knows he is also Sinbad. Do you think the readers of the time realized this before this chapter? Does anyone know? We all at least know some of the story line of revenge, so we assume this man doing weird things is Edmond, but does the reader of the time know that?