Julie’s answer to “I saw mentioned that Tyler Westover has published a review of this book, giving it 5 stars and also…” > Likes and Comments
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thank you so much for providing this to me Julie.
Thank you, Tyler! I admire you for getting an education, and I appreciate your honest review here.
As a female and the youngest child in the family, Tara’s perceptions are bound to be different from your own. You have been respectful in your disagreements, which is commendable. Children of the same family do have materially different experiences and memories...what I cannot get past is the tolerance of your brother’s heinous behavior. In your comments and in comments left by others critical of your sister’s book, condemnation of his monstrous treatment of family members is absent.
I believe if you want to respond directly to Tyler, you need to do it on Amazon.
Girls are treated differently in a family. My mother was very distant and she deferred to my father no matter how abusive he was. Tara has a right to her opinion and how she relates to those experiences. Her father and brother should be locked up as far as I am concerned. Their abuse has nothing to do with faith in God or their Mormonism. It has to do with their mental illness and attitudes about children who should be raised to grow up and form their own ideas of life. The mother was a nut too. Thank god a few of them escaped the horror of their lives.
Thank you for giving us Tyler's response to his sister's memoir. I had read about it, but was told that Tyler had erased it. I appreciate you providing it to us
It appears the review has been deleted/removed (?)
Thanks for providing this, as there's no way to sort by earliest review on Amazon and there are now over 5,000 of them (and apparently he may have deleted his review). The part that concedes that abuse took place is all I needed to read. I did find it surprising to see a photo of her father on Facebook (her mom has a public profile) and see that not only is he not horribly burned, he has no noticeable scarring at all from the explosion.
If you go to FB you will see he has two pages. One is an answer to this book. He has removed everything except a short explanation of why.
Two thing that stands out to me from this short piece is that he is very respectful of his sister, and that it doesn’t surprise me that the boys in the family would have very different experiences and memories than the girls.
Of course, Tyler would have a different perspective. Anyone who has grown up in this kind of environment knows that male children are treated very differently from females.
A perfect example was how often Tara's virtue was called into play ... pushing up her sleeves when it was roasting hot outside, the kind of jeans she wore, being independent and education. The boys NEVER had this kind of scrutiny.
<> Isn't this true? We put our spin on our experiences? A well documented and vetted book is not biased but just reports when the person's experience was.
"I think in many instances she greatly incorrectly conveyed my experiences." If you two are in contact, I hope you will consider one day sharing those parts of your history you feel were mis-conveyed in the book.
Emotions and thoughts are based on PERCEPTION - this is no place for a court of either/or law. Tyler should write his own book versus just a review. When people are denied schooling, medical care, exposed to extremist thinking, and sibling abuse it is unconscionable. People cope with these horrors indifferent ways: joining with abuser, denial, avoidance, minimization, etc. coping styles are based in perception. they are not right or wrong either.
I think you did an excellent job reviewing her book--I understand it must have been difficult to divorce yourself enough to do that. I don't remember reading that both your parents had attended a year of college. I do think you are not understanding the sexism behind your father's support of your getting more education and your sister not--Mormon religion is nothing if not chauvinistic.
Reading this book, I can't help but notice the difference in Mormonism and Buddhism (Theravada), currently there are little modern comparisons and investigations between Eastern and Western religion and which is actually kinder. I believe this competition between religions, of who can be kinder equally to all including yourself, will actually shine a light on the truth, which everyone is after.
I was brought up a Buddhist. In Buddhism, there is no such thing as a God that created everything. In fact, we don't even believe that there is a "self" that exists.
In this case, polygamy in Mormonism is just common sense wrong because it is an unkind thing to do. Having multiple spouses hurts the feelings of your spouses, and how can that be kind at all.
Not allowing prompt medical attention is unkind.
Allowing men education but discouraging women to be educated is unfair, and it hurts the feelings of women. How can that be kind? Regardless of whatever crazy Mormonian utopian world you'd like to create, you don't subject anyone to a unkind act to achieve it. Such utopian world does not exist anyway. There is a greater reality in the act of kindness then the delusion of an ideal utopian world.
Tyler and Tara in Buddhism is conflicted with how to feel and think and view their parents amidst the abuse and little act of kindness they receive at parent's hands. If one were to hold the beliefs of a "self", there will be no end to the thoughts, perception, conflicting emotions, abuse, blame, guilt, anger. If the idea of self disappears, all that disappears too. Disappears and replaced by forgiveness.
Because to no longer hold the idea of "self", then there could be no self in their parents to be blamed. The cause of their parents unkind acts began with ignorance, then it led to unkind thoughts, unkind feelings, and finally unkind actions which creates kamma.
I just finished reading 'Educated' and now Tyler's review. My immediate reaction: boys are treated differently from girls. There is no more basic misogyny than the patriarchy of a fundamentalist family. I would guess that this accounts for the biggest differences between Tara's and Tyler's experience of family.
I certainly appreciate Tyler's perspective here. I am mid-point thru the book . I began to doubt the veracity of all the close calls and healings of reported serious injuries (I am a medical professional). I know that this book is Tara's truth and recollection. I do find Tyler's input about their parent's focus on education. I had a complex relationship with my father so I understand that Tara has much to work thru about her relationship with her father. And yes, girls are treated differently than boys.
Couldn't agree more. Her experience is from a woman's perspective. I doubt the brothers could put themselves in her shoes as her place was in the kitchen, as a wife and mother.
Untreated mental illness often worsens as a time goes by.
But of course he had a different experience and had support from his father to get a university degree: Tyler is a man, Tara is a woman! Hasn't he read the phrase where Gene tells Tara that she belongs in the kitchen/at home? And not only to her, but to Faye as well.
Absolutely, being a woman, she was taught differently. Also, wasn’t the father burned after Tyler left? Tyler came home to help. But the father got even more controlling after he was severely burned.
Thank you Tyler for sharing your perspective on the family's story. It does not in any way take away or diminish Tara's perspective. I appreciate reading this.
Thanks for posting this. It really does clarify my thoughts/suspicions of perspective. It, as Tyler mentions, is HER memoir, and her perspective.
Many siblings in the same family have different perspectives of their childhood. Parents often treat individual children differently from each other. I appreciated reading the comments here that underscore how Tara’s life with her family was more difficult being female. Her brother would be praised for improving upon his education whereas Tara would be discouraged as a way to control her. If she had less options, she’d be dependent on the parents which they'd use to their advantage. I don’t think her brother comprehends that part of the equation.
Well, as many already said - in the fundamelistic enviroment boys are differenty treated than girls, from there come different perceptions and also Tara in the book is telling that father from old pictures (and from telling older siblings) is father she does not remember, obiously father's mental illnes and with it all other circumstances (abuse, neglect, etc) - were progressing with the time.
Reading Tayler's review to me makes only more authhentic the book itself!
So after I read Tyler's comment I started to think that, yes tara's parents are still abusing and wrong, but they are not that "isolated" from real world I guess. they definetly treat their sons and daughers so differently.
To me, Tyler is inadvertently exposing the vast difference between how their father treated his sons versus his daughters. For him to say that he feels Tara misrepresented his feelings and perspective is also kind of selfish because a memoir is meant to be personal perspective, and he’s denying and invalidated her personal experience by these comments.
Did he take it down? I can not find it on Amazon.
So weird, Janelle! I literally just reread his review on Amazon last week and now I can't find it either. I believe it was the top review and very easy to find. Very bizarre that it would just be taken off now. I just attended a speaking event where Tara Westover discusses Educated and her new book coming out. Maybe Amazon thought Tyler's review would effect sales of her new book and they removed it.
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May 15, 2018 09:50AM
thank you so much for providing this to me Julie.
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Thank you, Tyler! I admire you for getting an education, and I appreciate your honest review here.
As a female and the youngest child in the family, Tara’s perceptions are bound to be different from your own. You have been respectful in your disagreements, which is commendable. Children of the same family do have materially different experiences and memories...what I cannot get past is the tolerance of your brother’s heinous behavior. In your comments and in comments left by others critical of your sister’s book, condemnation of his monstrous treatment of family members is absent.
I believe if you want to respond directly to Tyler, you need to do it on Amazon.
Girls are treated differently in a family. My mother was very distant and she deferred to my father no matter how abusive he was. Tara has a right to her opinion and how she relates to those experiences. Her father and brother should be locked up as far as I am concerned. Their abuse has nothing to do with faith in God or their Mormonism. It has to do with their mental illness and attitudes about children who should be raised to grow up and form their own ideas of life. The mother was a nut too. Thank god a few of them escaped the horror of their lives.
Thank you for giving us Tyler's response to his sister's memoir. I had read about it, but was told that Tyler had erased it. I appreciate you providing it to us
It appears the review has been deleted/removed (?)
Thanks for providing this, as there's no way to sort by earliest review on Amazon and there are now over 5,000 of them (and apparently he may have deleted his review). The part that concedes that abuse took place is all I needed to read. I did find it surprising to see a photo of her father on Facebook (her mom has a public profile) and see that not only is he not horribly burned, he has no noticeable scarring at all from the explosion.
If you go to FB you will see he has two pages. One is an answer to this book. He has removed everything except a short explanation of why. Two thing that stands out to me from this short piece is that he is very respectful of his sister, and that it doesn’t surprise me that the boys in the family would have very different experiences and memories than the girls.
Of course, Tyler would have a different perspective. Anyone who has grown up in this kind of environment knows that male children are treated very differently from females.A perfect example was how often Tara's virtue was called into play ... pushing up her sleeves when it was roasting hot outside, the kind of jeans she wore, being independent and education. The boys NEVER had this kind of scrutiny.
<> Isn't this true? We put our spin on our experiences? A well documented and vetted book is not biased but just reports when the person's experience was.
"I think in many instances she greatly incorrectly conveyed my experiences." If you two are in contact, I hope you will consider one day sharing those parts of your history you feel were mis-conveyed in the book.
Emotions and thoughts are based on PERCEPTION - this is no place for a court of either/or law. Tyler should write his own book versus just a review. When people are denied schooling, medical care, exposed to extremist thinking, and sibling abuse it is unconscionable. People cope with these horrors indifferent ways: joining with abuser, denial, avoidance, minimization, etc. coping styles are based in perception. they are not right or wrong either.
I think you did an excellent job reviewing her book--I understand it must have been difficult to divorce yourself enough to do that. I don't remember reading that both your parents had attended a year of college. I do think you are not understanding the sexism behind your father's support of your getting more education and your sister not--Mormon religion is nothing if not chauvinistic.
Reading this book, I can't help but notice the difference in Mormonism and Buddhism (Theravada), currently there are little modern comparisons and investigations between Eastern and Western religion and which is actually kinder. I believe this competition between religions, of who can be kinder equally to all including yourself, will actually shine a light on the truth, which everyone is after.I was brought up a Buddhist. In Buddhism, there is no such thing as a God that created everything. In fact, we don't even believe that there is a "self" that exists.
In this case, polygamy in Mormonism is just common sense wrong because it is an unkind thing to do. Having multiple spouses hurts the feelings of your spouses, and how can that be kind at all.
Not allowing prompt medical attention is unkind.
Allowing men education but discouraging women to be educated is unfair, and it hurts the feelings of women. How can that be kind? Regardless of whatever crazy Mormonian utopian world you'd like to create, you don't subject anyone to a unkind act to achieve it. Such utopian world does not exist anyway. There is a greater reality in the act of kindness then the delusion of an ideal utopian world.
Tyler and Tara in Buddhism is conflicted with how to feel and think and view their parents amidst the abuse and little act of kindness they receive at parent's hands. If one were to hold the beliefs of a "self", there will be no end to the thoughts, perception, conflicting emotions, abuse, blame, guilt, anger. If the idea of self disappears, all that disappears too. Disappears and replaced by forgiveness.
Because to no longer hold the idea of "self", then there could be no self in their parents to be blamed. The cause of their parents unkind acts began with ignorance, then it led to unkind thoughts, unkind feelings, and finally unkind actions which creates kamma.
I just finished reading 'Educated' and now Tyler's review. My immediate reaction: boys are treated differently from girls. There is no more basic misogyny than the patriarchy of a fundamentalist family. I would guess that this accounts for the biggest differences between Tara's and Tyler's experience of family.
I certainly appreciate Tyler's perspective here. I am mid-point thru the book . I began to doubt the veracity of all the close calls and healings of reported serious injuries (I am a medical professional). I know that this book is Tara's truth and recollection. I do find Tyler's input about their parent's focus on education. I had a complex relationship with my father so I understand that Tara has much to work thru about her relationship with her father. And yes, girls are treated differently than boys.
Couldn't agree more. Her experience is from a woman's perspective. I doubt the brothers could put themselves in her shoes as her place was in the kitchen, as a wife and mother.
Seems the family situation got crazier through the years. Tara's experience may have been much different from yous? Maybe when you were marking our your path, things hadn't deteriorated to the point they had when Tara was making hers.
Untreated mental illness often worsens as a time goes by.
But of course he had a different experience and had support from his father to get a university degree: Tyler is a man, Tara is a woman! Hasn't he read the phrase where Gene tells Tara that she belongs in the kitchen/at home? And not only to her, but to Faye as well.
Absolutely, being a woman, she was taught differently. Also, wasn’t the father burned after Tyler left? Tyler came home to help. But the father got even more controlling after he was severely burned.
Thank you Tyler for sharing your perspective on the family's story. It does not in any way take away or diminish Tara's perspective. I appreciate reading this.
Thanks for posting this. It really does clarify my thoughts/suspicions of perspective. It, as Tyler mentions, is HER memoir, and her perspective.
Many siblings in the same family have different perspectives of their childhood. Parents often treat individual children differently from each other. I appreciated reading the comments here that underscore how Tara’s life with her family was more difficult being female. Her brother would be praised for improving upon his education whereas Tara would be discouraged as a way to control her. If she had less options, she’d be dependent on the parents which they'd use to their advantage. I don’t think her brother comprehends that part of the equation.
Well, as many already said - in the fundamelistic enviroment boys are differenty treated than girls, from there come different perceptions and also Tara in the book is telling that father from old pictures (and from telling older siblings) is father she does not remember, obiously father's mental illnes and with it all other circumstances (abuse, neglect, etc) - were progressing with the time. Reading Tayler's review to me makes only more authhentic the book itself!
So after I read Tyler's comment I started to think that, yes tara's parents are still abusing and wrong, but they are not that "isolated" from real world I guess. they definetly treat their sons and daughers so differently.
To me, Tyler is inadvertently exposing the vast difference between how their father treated his sons versus his daughters. For him to say that he feels Tara misrepresented his feelings and perspective is also kind of selfish because a memoir is meant to be personal perspective, and he’s denying and invalidated her personal experience by these comments.
Did he take it down? I can not find it on Amazon.
So weird, Janelle! I literally just reread his review on Amazon last week and now I can't find it either. I believe it was the top review and very easy to find. Very bizarre that it would just be taken off now. I just attended a speaking event where Tara Westover discusses Educated and her new book coming out. Maybe Amazon thought Tyler's review would effect sales of her new book and they removed it.
