Fionnuala’s review of The Aeneid (Everyman's Library) by Virgil (June 30,1992) > Likes and Comments

Those translations are all so different, it's great seeing them side by side. I really love the Dryden for the old-school charm though.

I'm glad you appreciated seeing the translations side by side, Warwick, and thanks for reading through it all. You've reassured me that it's readable!
I loved Dryden's version too. It's just so easy to read. I think I must be a rhyming couplets person:-)

Gosh Fionnuala, thank you so so much for putting those translations together, I've just finished The Iliad and am on my way to The Aeneid, but I kept putting it off cause I was anxious about picking a good translation. I read some badly translated abridged version many moons ago and now I want to give it full justice. I agree with you and Warwick, the Dryden reads just about right for me as well.

It's a book to reread for sure, Selene. And Dryden guarantees a speedy passage with his fast-paced rhymes that dash up the sandy waves, and ope the depths below.
He's very good on all the nature interludes that Virgil includes too. I wanted to quote all those but had to draw the line somewhere:-(

"אל תפגעי בי לעזבך לשוב מאחריך כי אל אשר תלכי אלך ובאשר תליני אלין "

“Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay."

These are the famous words of Ruth to Naomi. The book of Ruth, 1:16.

Is this what sounded familiar to you when you read "'Now, now delay is done with: I follow, and where you lead, I come'" (J. W. Mackail)?

Your review, Fionnuala, is an inspiring ode to Aeneid and to the art of translation which is dear to me too.

I know this review is way too long
so thanks for reading this far.

Is the best evidence that you’ve got yourself into the couplet’s mood, Fionnuala:-)

I can totally relate to your reading this in four parallel translations. I find with the poetry, even if the epic one, it is practically impossible to get to the text without may translations. I can quite put it into words, but the rhyme, music, rhythm and even the imagery play such fundamental elements roles that’s impossible to get it all from a single translation. I am a reading Bachmann’s poems and I’ve managed to read many of them in the translation in two languages, then I used the machine translation for some as well to compare and even managed to ‘to translate’ some myself before I’ve got close enough to the stuff beyond the written words. Sorry, I am not explaining it very well:-)

From your comparison I would as well go with MD. English does not allow a lot of variation for rhyming it seems. Dryden to me sounds a little contrived with all these ‘ s. But then it is easy to recite aloud and quite memorable. But the original is not rhyming isn’t it? There is a lot of rhythm but not that much rhyme in the Latin verses you quoted. Or I just cannot read Latin properly.

All in all I find this extremely interesting topic and the review. Poor Dido:-)

Ah, translation memories!

I had a lot of trouble working out a translation for our group to read Dante's Divine Comedy. I had set my heart on Mandelbaum's translation I couldn't even find one for myself. I had come across some passages which I found flowed well. But I couldn't track down enough copies for the group, it wasn't widely available. I found everyone I checked jarring. I found a pdf copy of the Mandelbaum online and sampled a few more passages and it was up and down. I also sampled Cardi and Musa. But the Clive James one was terrible.

Eventually I thought the Sisson one (by a poet at least) was available. But while it has some lovely passages, its not terza rima. English simply can't achieve the poetic effect of Italian.

Funny, the older Longfellow translation seemed to find some poetry.

Our group baulked the Aeniad for the next reading.

Noam wrote: ""אל תפגעי בי לעזבך לשוב מאחריך כי אל אשר תלכי אלך ובאשר תליני אלין "
“Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay.".."

That's very interesting, Noam. I don't know much about The Book of Ruth other than that it is one of the books of the Christian Old Testament and of the Hebrew Bible so I'm not sure if that's where I heard that line. But anyway, the book of Ruth must have been written down long before Virgil composed the Aeneid (29–19 BCE). So did he know those writings? Fascinating.
And thanks for reading through the review, Noam. I'm not surprised you've an interest in translation:-)

Wonderful breakdown! Alas, you forgot one additional translation of the lines from Anchises:

If you walk away walk away walk away
I will follow. --Bono

From the snips supplied here, I guess I'm a fan of the John Dryden translation, as it remains archaic enough in form to take me back far into the past.

What a treat to read this today.

Thank you for this insight (with great examples) of the many different translations of The Aeneid, Fio. I own Everyman’s editions of Homer and The Aenid, and read them quite a long time ago. I often think of reading them again. From your review, I think I am well served by Fitzgerald/Everyman, although the examples of Dryden’s translation actually has the greater appeal.

Katia wrote: "...I can totally relate to your reading this in four parallel translations. I find with the poetry, even if the epic one, it is practically impossible to get to the text without may translations. I can quite put it into words, but the rhyme, music, rhythm and even the imagery play such fundamental elements roles that’s impossible to get it all from a single translation..."

I'm not a good judge of the rhyme and rhythm of the original Latin verses, Katia, but I could see that imagery is a device Virgil uses a lot. Here's one such passage from Mandelbaum whom I think is your favourite?
"Even as
a wolf who waits outside the full sheepfold   75
will howl beside the pens at midnight, facing
both wind and storm; beneath their dams the sheltered
lambs keep on bleating; fierce and desperate
with rage, the wolf is wild against his absent
prey; after such long famine now the frenzy   80
for food, his dry and bloodless jaws torment him:
just so, as he surveys the wall and camp,
is Turnus’ anger kindled; indignation
is hot in his hard bones. How shall he test
their entrances?
There were many other such passages. Ok, here's another one:-)
"As in high air the striving winds do battle
with equal force and spirit; and no wind   495
gives way to wind, no cloud to cloud, no wave
to wave; the fight is long, uncertain; each
against the other, obstinate: just so
the troops of Troy and Latium now clash;
foot presses against foot; man crowds on man."

The word that comes to mind when I read your review is: EPIC.
I appreciate your reflections on these translations. I wish I read Latin so I could take this journey with you.

I want to read this over and over, Fionnuala, and come back to comment. Wonderful work!

I studied book 4 of the Aeneid for my Latin A-level. My teenage verdict: Aeneas was a scumbag :) He knew he was going to leave and led Dido along the garden path. That aside, I loved to recall the lilting rhythms in your initial quote. I so enjoyed them, and remember having to painstakingly mark out the rhythms. Dactyls and spondees! I love Dryden’s translation too.

Here I am already, unable to pick up the day's tasks until I delved once more into your beautiful summing-up. The lines and the incidents you selected are tremendous. It was really good to be reminded of them after my own rather cursory reading of the text.
Since there is interest in the different translations, I'll mention here the two that I read, one literal, one more poetic:
Joshua W.D Smith, a recent, literal, translation alongside the Latin - very useful for me with my rather shaky grasp of Latin (scrappy in school).
John Jackson's language is sometimes archaic but I learned some lovely words from him.
Your review was superlative. Thank you for taking me back to the AEneid.

Fionnuala wrote: "Katia wrote: "...I can totally relate to your reading this in four parallel translations. I find with the poetry, even if the epic one, it is practically impossible to get to the text without may t..."

Thank you, Fionnuala for more: yes, the imaginary is properly epic! his dry and bloodless jaws torment him - this is a very good one for example, so not obvious. It seems the ancients did not do cliches:-) Or it is indeed very good translation or both. I prefer Mandelbaum only based upon the selection you've presented. I am not familiar with his translations otherwise. But i feel he has managed this delicate balance between 'faithfulness' and poetics quite well. While Dryden rings falls to my inexperienced ears: too many verbs and too much rhymes:-) Thanks again for this great opportunity to compare the translations. Also it has brought memories of reading The Death of Virgil. It was quite hard book to read. But it has created the lasting impression on me.

Nick wrote: "Ah, translation memories!
I had a lot of trouble working out a translation for our group to read Dante's Divine Comedy. I had set my heart on Mandelbaum's translation I couldn't even find one..."

Aha, Nick, Mandelbaum spoke about his translation of The Divine Comedy in the introduction to The Aeneid. He decided to translate The Aeneid as a result of his long obsession with Dante's work. He has curious things to say about the differences between the two:

"Virgil cannot compare with Dante in the range of his lexis, in the range of the real he comprehends. His words are fewer than Dante’s; and he and Dante belong to separate classes in the two types of poets distinguished by Donald Davie in Purity of Diction in English Verse: “One feels that Hopkins could have found a place for every word in the language if only he could have written enough poems. One feels the same about Shakespeare. But there are other poets, I find, with whom I feel the other thing—that a selection has been made and is continually being made, that words are thrusting at the poem and being fended off from it, that however many poems these poets wrote certain words would never be allowed into the poems, except as a disastrous oversight.” One knows that Dante belongs in the first class, Virgil in the second..."

Left Coast Justin wrote: "Wonderful breakdown! Alas, you forgot one additional translation of the lines from Anchises:
If you walk away walk away walk away
I will follow. --Bono..."

What a find, Justin—I love it! The Aeneid connects with 20th century culture:-)
I'm glad you enjoyed the snippets from the Dryden translation. The thing about it is that it reads twice as fast as the others somehow—but whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is probably debatable.
But yes, his style and word choices make it easier for us to connect with the past of the epic.

What a riveting review Fionnuala, I simply inhaled deeply and breathed it into my system. And it comes at such a propitious time for me. I have just decided that it doesn't make sense that given my love for Western Literature I have not yet read in full Homer's Iliad and Odyssey and Virgil's Aeneid. I am starting off with the Iliad, will follow with the Odyssey and then get to the Aeneid.
Thank you for this illuminating review.

Michael wrote: "Thank you for this insight (with great examples) of the many different translations of The Aeneid, Fio. I own Everyman’s editions of Homer and The Aeneid, and read them quite a long time ago. I often think of reading them again. From your review, I think I am well served by Fitzgerald/Everyman, although the examples of Dryden’s translation actually has the greater appeal..."

The Everymans are lovely books to have on your bookshelves, aren't they, Michael. I've shelved Virgil beside his countryman, Ovid, also in an Everyman edition, and alongside another of their countrymen, published in the same edition, Benvenuto Cellini—though Cellini is no poet and might be given to starting a fight with the other two when the lights are out and no one is about;-)

I've just seen that Dryden has a version of the first part of the Iliad but it's not so much a translation as a reworking of a translation by Chapman, the one John Keats made famous. Still, I might take a look into Dryden's version—I've never read any Homer.

Fionnuala, could you say a little bit about how you chose the translation(s) you wanted?

A delightful and immersive write-up, Fionnuala - I was entirely hooked and relate to your experience with Dryden, the fast pace and the music of the rhymes propulsing the reading forwards (it reminded me of reading the Iliad in verse and in prose at the same time, the verse making it impossible to stop reading). You piqued my curiosity not only because since reading the Iliad to my surprise I realised I can enjoy reading about battle scenes, but also made me wonder about the libretto of Purcell's Dido & Aeneas, Matthias Enard's Tell Them of Battles, Kings, and Elephants - echoing the line "For I shall sing of battles, blood, and rage", (the rage reminiscent of Homer too), the likely various translations into Dutch, Ursula Le Guin's Lavinia - the pleasure those ancient classics have in store is endless.

Alison wrote: "The word that comes to mind when I read your review is: EPIC.
I appreciate your reflections on these translations. I wish I read Latin so I could take this journey with you."

Thanks, Alison—I could easily have made this review twice as long, I'd accumulated so many notes and quotes!
You asked about how I chose the translations. Well I'd heard from someone that Alan Mandelbaum's translation was a good one so that's why he was my first choice—but the others were more or less accidental.
Ok, I've always had a soft spot for John Dryden's witty verses, especially the more irreverent ones, eg, “On a Lady who P—st at the Tragedy of Cato”, or "Mac Flecknoe", so he was an easy choice and free too.
The parallel text was the first such one I came across when I searched so there was no choosing involved there.
And the Robert Fitzgerald was an accident of fate!

Veronica wrote: "I studied book 4 of the Aeneid for my Latin A-level. My teenage verdict: Aeneas was a scumbag :) He knew he was going to leave and led Dido along the garden path. I loved to recall the lilting rhythms in your initial quote. I so enjoyed them, and remember having to painstakingly mark out the rhythms. Dactyls and spondees! I love Dryden’s translation too..."

If I'd only read the Dido section, I'd probably share your opinion of Aeneas, Veronica. Her heartbreak was huge and devastating.
Aeneas is maybe a less heroic figure than his predecessors in literature such as Achilles and Odysseus, but I liked that Virgil made him more ordinarily human for all that he was a goddess's son. He hesitates and shows fear and sometimes makes poor decisions but has enough integrity to keep me onside—though his vengeful final act was a shock but there was probably no other outcome possible.

I wish I'd learned about the dactyls and spondees but our Latin course was more basic. Just chunks of Cicero's and Caesar's prose to translate as best we could. All the vocabulary I learned related to armies and road building!

J.C. wrote: "Here I am already, unable to pick up the day's tasks until I delved once more into your beautiful summing-up. The lines and the incidents you selected are tremendous. It was really good to be reminded of them after my own rather cursory reading of the text..."

It's great to see you here, Jeanne! Putting this review together was almost like reading the book all over again, and the exercise reminded me of how much I'd enjoyed being in the world of the book. Thanks for adding two more translators to the list. Your John Jackson, with his archaic language, sounds like he suits the epic well. I think I'd have been put off by a translation that sounded very modern. Alan Mandelbaum and Robert Fitzgerald somehow managed not to sound too modern though 'modern' is how Fitzgerald's translation is described.
Anyway, I'm glad to have enabled you to swing by Aeneas's Mediterranean world again today, Jeanne. Hope everything is well with you:-)

Katia wrote: "...It seems the ancients did not do cliches:-) Or it is indeed very good translation or both. I prefer Mandelbaum only based upon the selection you've presented. I am not familiar with his translations otherwise. But i feel he has managed this delicate balance between 'faithfulness' and poetics quite well..."

Glad you enjoyed those extra verses, Katia. I highlighted a lot of Mandelbaum's text, it has to be said. But I enjoyed moving between the different translators as well. Maybe what I really appreciated was seeing what I considered the best set pieces in Virgil in several variations—like a favorite tune in a symphony getting different treatments:-)

Daphna wrote: "What a riveting review Fionnuala, I simply inhaled deeply and breathed it into my system. And it comes at such a propitious time for me. I have just decided that it doesn't make sense that given my love for Western Literature I have not yet read in full Homer's Iliad and Odyssey and Virgil's Aeneid.."

Thanks for your delightful comment, Daphna.
What you say makes complete sense. I was reminded of several familiar works of literature while reading The Aeneid, and I also spotted lots of tropes I'm familiar with from reading about other books, eg, those from the fantasy and sci-fi genres. I'm certain that Homer would offer me even more links and connections.And then there's Sophocles to sample too. We are lucky to have such riches at the touch of a fingertip:-)

This review reminds me a lot of Borges when he compares all the translations of the 1001 Nights. Great stuff Fionnuala!

Fionnuala wrote: "Veronica wrote: "I studied book 4 of the Aeneid for my Latin A-level. My teenage verdict: Aeneas was a scumbag :) He knew he was going to leave and led Dido along the garden path. I loved to recall..."

A-level was an opportunity to study more than just boring Cicero and Livy; I studied Catullus as well as Virgil. It was my favourite subject!

So you got tired reading everything written by Mark Twain, Fionnuala, so you thought you'd try something easy like translating Virgil?