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Oh, and despite my rant, for any question that begins "Am I the only one who…", the answer is always that you are not alone. There's always someone who shares your opinion on the Internet.
Yeah I know, it was just difficult to phrase the question so that the question wouldn't be too long. And what I meant by 'tried to' was that Cersei wasnt actually the one who killed Robert- it was the boar. Plus, you're forgetting that Catelyn did have a better upbringing than Cersei did- she was loved by her father and wasnt terrified by Maggy the Frog (if you've read the later books)
I consider it murder by proxy. And there are hints a lot of Cersei's character before the incident with Maggy. She claims (unreliable narrator though she may be) that Tywin adored her, and was cruel to Tyrion even before the prophecy of the valonquar.
We can read how Tywin treated her. If Cersei thought he adored her, Freud should take care of her nicely, which is also obvious. Tywin was her idol in spite of all. Daddy issues aside (which are fascinating to read as well), sympathy is never misguided. Cersei is a terrible woman, cruel, manipulative, scheming (though not too good at it), etc., and also a victim, not only of misogyny. She is both and that's how she was written. Robert's death was facilitated by Cersei, but it was his own fault as much as hers. If he hadn't been so predictably going to be hammered, as he loved to, her plan wouldn't have worked. She knew her man, that's for sure and hoped it would work. It's like when she 'forbid' him to participate in the melee, hoping that he'd participate just to spite her and got killed in there.
LOL I can easily imagine those two not being the only times Cersei "let" Robert do what he wanted, like "Medieval bungee jumping from the cliff of the Iron Islands? I forbid you to have such awesome fun!" :-D
*Applause* She has no redeemable features. This is taking the old 'strong female character produced by the victimisation of men' thing a step too far. Petty, vindictive and shallow just about sums her up.
No, it isn't. Despicable as she is, she is a victim as well. You may choose to ignore it, but that doesn't mean it's not there.
just because she has suffered doesn't give her the right to hurt others. Overall her life has been one of luxury and privilege, I dont see any reason to classify her as anything but a petty and vengeful harridan.
I didn't say it gives her the right or that she's justified, though many people interpret it that way, whenever I mention it. As I said, you're free to ignore the fact that she's also a victim, but that doesn't mean it's not there. See, to be vengeful, you have to have been wronged. If you've been wronged, you're a victim. Again, that doesn't justify the horrible things she does and thinks, even knowing that she's a victim. Because other victims in these books chose different paths in their lives.
The main thing I hate about Cersei? Joffrey! If she loves her children so much, then why is she such a horrible mom? She spoils her kids and lets them do pretty much whatever they want and we saw it with Joffrey. She never once disciplined him. I think someone hit the nail on the head when they said the main reason she loves her children seems to be that they are her key to power.
That being said, she's an awesome amazing character, but so was Joffrey and so is Ramsay Snow. I personally don't like any of them.
Joffrey was spoiled and ill-advised by Cersei, and he was ignored and beaten bloody once by Robert. They were both responsible for the horrible boy he was. That said, the couple also raised Tommen and Myrcella (so sure, again, mostly Cersei), who are both sweet kids, so I wouldn't be so quick to pin that on "Cersei is to blame for Joffrey". I would also say that someone hit their own head with the nail if they think Cersei doesn't love her children. Do you honestly believe that loving one's kids is the magic formula to raise them properly? She does love them, but she also doesn't know how to love anyone properly (in a healthy way), nobody at all. Her view of love is twisted and manipulative, but it's the only one she knows (she was raised by Tywin, after all...).
Okay, I can see that. But I think Joffrey was the future king, so Cersei babied him more than the others. And I still think, knowing Cersei, that part of the reason was that she wanted to be on Joffrey's good side when he became king. I also agree it's not all on Cersei. Robert was off whoring and drinking when he should have been running a kingdom and raising his kids. In a lot of ways he's no better, even if he was more charismatic and likable than Cersei.
Whoa, lots of comments. Michael, it was I pointed out she values her kids as her access to power, and also agree that Cersei's favoritism toward Joffrey brought out the worst in him. Cersei herself wasn't the sweetest kid either, twisting baby Tyrion's penis as Oberyn and Elia watched on, and (if you go by the popular fan theory) pushing Melara Heatherspoon down the well to prevent her from talking about Maggy's prophecy.
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Matthew
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Sep 15, 2014 08:58PM
Oh, and despite my rant, for any question that begins "Am I the only one who…", the answer is always that you are not alone. There's always someone who shares your opinion on the Internet.
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Yeah I know, it was just difficult to phrase the question so that the question wouldn't be too long. And what I meant by 'tried to' was that Cersei wasnt actually the one who killed Robert- it was the boar. Plus, you're forgetting that Catelyn did have a better upbringing than Cersei did- she was loved by her father and wasnt terrified by Maggy the Frog (if you've read the later books)
I consider it murder by proxy. And there are hints a lot of Cersei's character before the incident with Maggy. She claims (unreliable narrator though she may be) that Tywin adored her, and was cruel to Tyrion even before the prophecy of the valonquar.
We can read how Tywin treated her. If Cersei thought he adored her, Freud should take care of her nicely, which is also obvious. Tywin was her idol in spite of all. Daddy issues aside (which are fascinating to read as well), sympathy is never misguided. Cersei is a terrible woman, cruel, manipulative, scheming (though not too good at it), etc., and also a victim, not only of misogyny. She is both and that's how she was written. Robert's death was facilitated by Cersei, but it was his own fault as much as hers. If he hadn't been so predictably going to be hammered, as he loved to, her plan wouldn't have worked. She knew her man, that's for sure and hoped it would work. It's like when she 'forbid' him to participate in the melee, hoping that he'd participate just to spite her and got killed in there.
LOL I can easily imagine those two not being the only times Cersei "let" Robert do what he wanted, like "Medieval bungee jumping from the cliff of the Iron Islands? I forbid you to have such awesome fun!" :-D
*Applause* She has no redeemable features. This is taking the old 'strong female character produced by the victimisation of men' thing a step too far. Petty, vindictive and shallow just about sums her up.
No, it isn't. Despicable as she is, she is a victim as well. You may choose to ignore it, but that doesn't mean it's not there.
just because she has suffered doesn't give her the right to hurt others. Overall her life has been one of luxury and privilege, I dont see any reason to classify her as anything but a petty and vengeful harridan.
I didn't say it gives her the right or that she's justified, though many people interpret it that way, whenever I mention it. As I said, you're free to ignore the fact that she's also a victim, but that doesn't mean it's not there. See, to be vengeful, you have to have been wronged. If you've been wronged, you're a victim. Again, that doesn't justify the horrible things she does and thinks, even knowing that she's a victim. Because other victims in these books chose different paths in their lives.
The main thing I hate about Cersei? Joffrey! If she loves her children so much, then why is she such a horrible mom? She spoils her kids and lets them do pretty much whatever they want and we saw it with Joffrey. She never once disciplined him. I think someone hit the nail on the head when they said the main reason she loves her children seems to be that they are her key to power.
That being said, she's an awesome amazing character, but so was Joffrey and so is Ramsay Snow. I personally don't like any of them.
Joffrey was spoiled and ill-advised by Cersei, and he was ignored and beaten bloody once by Robert. They were both responsible for the horrible boy he was. That said, the couple also raised Tommen and Myrcella (so sure, again, mostly Cersei), who are both sweet kids, so I wouldn't be so quick to pin that on "Cersei is to blame for Joffrey". I would also say that someone hit their own head with the nail if they think Cersei doesn't love her children. Do you honestly believe that loving one's kids is the magic formula to raise them properly? She does love them, but she also doesn't know how to love anyone properly (in a healthy way), nobody at all. Her view of love is twisted and manipulative, but it's the only one she knows (she was raised by Tywin, after all...).
Okay, I can see that. But I think Joffrey was the future king, so Cersei babied him more than the others. And I still think, knowing Cersei, that part of the reason was that she wanted to be on Joffrey's good side when he became king. I also agree it's not all on Cersei. Robert was off whoring and drinking when he should have been running a kingdom and raising his kids. In a lot of ways he's no better, even if he was more charismatic and likable than Cersei.
Whoa, lots of comments. Michael, it was I pointed out she values her kids as her access to power, and also agree that Cersei's favoritism toward Joffrey brought out the worst in him. Cersei herself wasn't the sweetest kid either, twisting baby Tyrion's penis as Oberyn and Elia watched on, and (if you go by the popular fan theory) pushing Melara Heatherspoon down the well to prevent her from talking about Maggy's prophecy.
