How the Biggest Book Club on Goodreads Is Making a Real-World Impact

AlegnaB wrote: "A poll that just came out: Less than a third of women are feminists"

Actually, more worrying than the poll results themselves are the comments on the article. Most of them are just spewing random hatred and incredibly stupid comments which are also littered with homophobic, transphobic, and sexist comments.

The person who wrote this article was like, "The moment I push this button the comment section will flood with pro- and anti-feminism comments and I don't even care." Congratulations, you were right. And even though I think it's sad that people have such a wrong image of feminism, it's pretty hilarious to see everyone get so worked-up.

MeerderWörter wrote: "I just wanted to say that if you are capable, you should be given the opportunity. (As long as it doesn't interfere with another life.)

I just often can't express myself in the way I want to, Engl..."

You expressed yourself better than a lot of people of my generation who ARE native speakers of English. Considering that our national literacy rate, even among newly arrived immigrants was PROPORTIONALLY higher before, during and immediately following our war for independence from England than it is now, that's a SCATHING indictment of the US educational system!

Erma: See above.

Imowen: If we AREN'T oppressed in the West, WHY THE HELL ARE AMERICAN WOMEN ONLY PAID SEVENTY-EIGHT CENTS TO EVERY DOLLAR THAT MEN ARE PAID FOR THE SAME DAMNED WORK?! OR THE FACT THAT SOME WOMEN HAVE TO WORK UP TO THREE MINIMUM OR SUB-MINIMUM WAGE JOBS JUST TO "MAKE ENDS MEET" FOR THEIR FAMILIES? I'd call that financial oppression, wouldn't you?!

Joshie: Common sense, but like everything else common sense, it'll be ignored. Re: "As much as I am concerned, everything has two sides -- the bad and the good. Now if we're just going to focus on the bad things then that is being completely partial. We are all aware that every day women are being abused, raped, et cetera, and there is all these stereotypes surrounding women which hold them back from taking -- as an example -- science and math courses. This is the same for men in which they're taught or brought up not to do this and do that instead of showing, for instance, some weakness for fear of being tagged as "effeminate".

I do think that there is beauty in this movement, in its good side, which tries its best to address, fight and overcome sexism and inequality both sexes experience every day.

I wish we could at least celebrate the good intention of this."

Maureen: Thank you! What qualifies the ACTRESS who played Hermione Granger to be the UN Ambassador?

'Are you a feminist?'
'No, I prefer gender equality.'

Is about the same thing as:

'Would you like some water?'
'No, I prefer H2O.'

Anny wrote: "'Are you a feminist?'
'No, I prefer gender equality.'

Is about the same thing as:

'Would you like some water?'
'No, I prefer H2O.'"

Hahaha!! That describes it perfectly!

Anny wrote: "'Are you a feminist?'
'No, I prefer gender equality.'

Is about the same thing as:

'Would you like some water?'
'No, I prefer H2O.'"

I can only say the same as Francesca. I have to chuckle when I think about how good this explains it.

@Amber:

Oh, thank you. This means so much to me.
I have to say that I had two really good English teachers, who really brought English grammar and vocabulary into my life. I also read and write mostly in English online, it feels a bit surreal sometimes to read and write in German online.

Amber wrote: "Interesting name, Kikki.

That said, most (meaning 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999ad infinitum%) of so-called "feminist books/authors" DO..."

Just because you "didn't like the movie" does not mean you would not like the book. . . Books are always better than the movie

MeerderWörter wrote: "Anny wrote: "'Are you a feminist?'
'No, I prefer gender equality.'

Is about the same thing as:

'Would you like some water?'
'No, I prefer H2O.'"

I can only say the same as Francesca. I have to c..."

You're welcome.

Krynne: True, but what happens when the books are WORSE than the movies? Like the Twitlight Saga? Honest Trailers have a pretty accurate take on how bad the movies were. And if they're THAT accurate about the movies, how much WORSE were the books?

Anny wrote: "'Are you a feminist?'
'No, I prefer gender equality.'

Is about the same thing as:

'Would you like some water?'
'No, I prefer H2O.'"

A more apt observation would be:

"Are you a feminist?'
"No. I prefer my own achievements and morality to be assigned to me, not commandeered for a movement I do not subscribe to, and likewise for all other women but that's entirely up to them."

Indoctrination of sexism in the West leads back to ancient Greece and can't be found scattered in the writings of Plato and his groups, who pretty much despised the existence of women. Surprisingly enough so does the belief that people should be equal, in the writings of Anaximander and his group. Both men there - unfortunately, guess who won out? Further reading if the subject interests you: Philosophy Without Women: The Birth of Sexism in Western Thought

Please note I use the word 'you' collectively proceeding and not subjectively.

Ironically, Suffragettes (who were not actually always women) weren't that interested in equality for all women; if you were poor, black, brown or from the colonies then damn you if you had more rights than white British women, like the Maoris did.

Let's not pretend being a feminist, or assigning yourself as one, makes you any better than those who don't, because it doesn't, and vice versa. Many feminists don't believe this. Unfortunately many do, and vice versa for those who are not feminists. The kinds of people who suffocate better causes by complaining about things such as pink items being more expensive than any other colour and that being a tax on women (a genuine complaint recently), or not enough women in certain areas of employment/education (maybe most women don't want to go into certain areas, and actually universities are chocker full of females in comparison to males) are the ones who steamroll a potentially enlightening debate or urgent appeal that could truly change the life of women suffering.

Imbalance of sexes in other areas could be discussed too. The majority of Romance books are written by women. Why? Because women are more emotional? Because women are always wanting relationships? Pretty stereotypical crap, huh? Maybe because women like to see the nuances in human behaviour in the most intimate of circumstances. That topic of 'why' alone could fill pages in my opinion, though it's not hugely important. What is their message? More important, because in relation to this topic, it is the ideals of what people read and see (and usually the first level of 'causes' they might see are debates about pink things) than can shape the mindset of those fairly unfamiliar with feminist theory; whether that is a good thing or not is highly debatable.

Why someone does or does not choose to identify as a feminist is really nothing to do with anyone else, and neither is it anyone's right to assign that title (or any title) to anyone who doesn't want it just because they may agree on certain things. I believe in possessing a level of morality, like not killing people and so on, but it doesn't make me a Christian, and it was around long before Christianity or the human race would never have made it out of Africa. Nor does it mean my morality is necessarily any better than others, past or present - you will always find people more or less moral than you. Does it mean you get to decide how immoral they are, or even if they deserve that title? No. And yes, killing is not always a crime. Wartime, and it's protection, or emancipation...

Telling people they are this or that based on one dis/agreement or assumption is as insulting as basing intellect on the amount of melanin in someone's skin. Nobody has the right to tell you who you are, that's for you to decide, and goes for everyone, even if it is not practised everywhere. Personally I believe human rights are universal. I'm happy to discuss ideologies and ways to make things better for people, but I draw the line and being indoctrinated against my will purely for agreeing with something someone says. And I also object being treated like some kind of pariah by some women because actually I don't think all women are saints.

And so, it is important for people not to presume others identify as one thing or another unless they have had an honest conversation on the subject and a confirmation of the fact. Not only can it create a false community but it can also make those people incorrectly subscribed pretty damn irritated, and for good reason. This goes for all the great facets of human experience and identification, and boils down to basic respect.

I'm a member. I haven't done the club read though. Things are a bit on top of me at the moment :(

People have talked about suffragettes but if someone is interested you can find short bios of the world's first female members of parliament from 1907 (19 out of 200) from here:
http://www.helsinki.fi/sukupuolentutk... They have quite varied backgrounds.

Anny wrote: "'Are you a feminist?'
'No, I prefer gender equality.'

Is about the same thing as:

'Would you like some water?'
'No, I prefer H2O.'"

Welcome to the Fallacy of the Converse.

All dogs are black, that animal is black, there for it's a dog.
But it's a cat.
No, it's black, so it's a dog.
But what about that dog, it's brown.
No, dogs are black, therefor, that's not a true dog.

Not all egalitarians are feminist, and not all feminists are egalitarians.

It is important for both men and women to get along and respect each other as intelligent beings without either one feeling less than. However, when there is an imbalance, then it is also important for one to speak out in order to bring awareness. The women's movement needed to happen, because women's issues had to be made public. In this all are aware. Then, dialogue begins. Then resolution begins to form. Equal rights for women, should not be a feminist movement. It should be a human movement that speaks loudly of embracing diversity in gender. Women bring completion to our society. This is an awareness that should be embraced. The two works that are being made mention here by two extraordinary women authors, Alice Walker & Gloria Steinem, is confirmation of what is said earlier in this post. Have a good day!
Carline F.
Author
Enough is Enough Already

Francesca wrote: "Without feminism, we wouldn't have most of the rights that we already have."

This is also what is odd about so many workers not supporting unions.

Francesca wrote: "I think the saddest reason given, though, was from the people that said they 'don't believe men and women are equal."

I have met women like that. Maybe they confuse the "realities" of their lives/upbringings/something with what is possible. Maybe, if they were readers, they'd have more vision?

Jonathan wrote: "This is also what is odd about so many workers not supporting unions"

I agree with this. I think sometimes people seem to be against something when they don't realise just how much that has actually given them help and advances in life.

Black Butterfly wrote: "The person who wrote this article was like, "The moment I push this button the comment section will flood with pro- and anti-feminism comments and I don't even care." Congratulations, you were righ..."
People who oppose feminism automatically have the wrong idea of feminism eh?
That's the no-true-Scotsman fallacy, in the same vein like saying that Islam is a religion of peace and that all the cruelty committed in its name is not true Islam.

So is modern feminism not the feminism that granted women voting rights. Modern feminism has produced such censorship, such misandry and yes- such violence that one has to convert to mere tunnel vision to stick to feminism's textbook definition.

More and more people- as the Time poll showed so brilliantly- start to see through the movement, uncovering it as a neo-marxist movement plagued by double standards and just a vile pleasure in opposing men and women.

Francesca wrote: "I think the saddest reason given, though, was from the people that said they 'don't believe men and women are equal'."

Yep, only a fool would argue against that we are different, but only a even bigger fool would argue that we are not equal.

Francesca wrote: "AlegnaB wrote: "A poll that just came out: Less than a third of women are feminists"

Those results make me sad. Not because people won't call themselves feminists but because of their reasons for ..."

Feminism has achieved a lot yea but current feminists are too extreme. With their safe spaces they make life more difficult and annoying for everybody. Both man and women are against restricting free speech. Many women also say that they are tired of being bossed around by feminist as if they couldn't think and decide for themselves.
People are also learning the truth about wage gap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjWBX... Standard answer.
If you are not man hating you shouldn't mind that I'm not a male.

Feminism is necessary, globally, because there is no country where females are not treated as second class citizens. The severity of the maltreatment varies from place to place, but exists everywhere. Females in countries like the USofA who think feminism is unnecessary because they have more choices than the females of say, South Sudan, are misinformed. Check the sexual assault/rape statistics. It doesn't even matter if they are underreported or if some percentage of females make false claims. The simple fact is males sexually assault/rape females because males are taught to believe females are property or objects to dominate. This must change. Empowering females with opportunities to 'speak with their own voice' without fear of violence or discrimination is essential. Also essential, teaching males that females are not objects, or toys, or conquests. Males must start understanding stronger females can build a better world for all. It is not a zero-sum game, and males should think less about what they lose by no longer dominating females, and more about how much more incredible the world can be when everyone works to everyone's benefit.

Jessica wrote: "...Why someone does or does not choose to identify as a feminist is really nothing to do with anyone else, and neither is it anyone's right to assign that title (or any title) to anyone who doesn't want it just because they may agree on certain things...."

For the entire above piece,

This is beautiful <3

Heather Acosta wrote: "Becky wrote: "I had no idea so many Goodreads members were anti-feminist.

Now I am depressed."

More like anti-education. But as someone else pointed out, it's hard for some people to see beyond t..."

People would prefer to be told what to think, how to feel, what to do. Sad, but that is the world today, dominated by social media and human laziness and selfishness. If it is on the internet (youtube?!?! seriously?!?), it must be true! GAG. Like moving from fossil fuels to, gasp!, renewable energy (why isn't the world speeding into renewable energies???), there are a lot of people with a lot to gain by keeping females in their place instead of embracing feminism, in all its guises.. Sadly, not all those who wish to gain are males. I am angered by any woman who would vote Republican in the USofA. Americans should be less concerned with USofA #1 and way more concerned with females gaining full reproductive rights, eliminating the wage gap (yes, naysayers, it is real. Sheesh! look at the numbers!!!), and making real inroads into violence against females. The problem for Americnas in their isn't an app for it (feminism). It will take work, and engagement, and dialogue, and struglle, and reeducation, and most of all shame. Shame that males in this country have systematically treated females like beasts and have institutionalized the behaviors and mannerisms and sttitudes that allow it to continue. Yes, some progress has been made, but there is a lot to be done. A LOT. Until all females are OK with feminism, and understand the real value of real opportunity for all females, the world will be a lesser place than it could be...

James wrote: "Heather Acosta wrote: "Becky wrote: "I had no idea so many Goodreads members were anti-feminist.

Now I am depressed."

More like anti-education. But as someone else pointed out, it's hard for some..."
Lol, James and your textbook feminism. Embrace humanism instead, 'cause real life- modern- feminism is anything but humanitarian.

The tide is turning against feminism, not in favour of feminism. So don't get your hopes up. More and more people are starting to see behind the veil of love and equality that hides its vile misandrist and neo-marxist core. And it is precisely because they have been educated on feminism and once thought the movement to be noble, not in spite of it.

Breathing wrote: "James wrote: "Heather Acosta wrote: "Becky wrote: "I had no idea so many Goodreads members were anti-feminist.

Now I am depressed."

More like anti-education. But as someone else pointed out, it's..."
You make me smile, with your fear of females chipping away at your manliness :)
Neo-Marxism! Misandry! Who is getting all textbook-y now?
I don't hope for anything. I act. The world will either embrace feminism or destroy itself with hate and violence. All the world's problems result from the historical male domination of the female. Ask yourself why the major 'religions' are all anti-female, or why all social designs on 'protecting' females are just ways to control them, limit them, or subjugate them. Males are less due to their treatment of females, that is a fact.

James wrote: "Breathing wrote: "James wrote: "Heather Acosta wrote: "Becky wrote: "I had no idea so many Goodreads members were anti-feminist.

Now I am depressed."

More like anti-education. But as someone else..."

I'm not getting textbooky. Marxism is no feminist trait officially, but many of its frontrunners are. It is also the reason why feminists get angry about facebook logos, yet only one stands up against the Cologne mass rapings. Not executed by their beloved enemu-the white male- but by muslim males- a religion neo-marxists cling to for it may well become the new proletariat.

I also don't have any issues with my masculinity. So you may as well stop projecting stereotypes upon me, it doesn't defend your arguments. What you need to do is open your eyes to reality actions, not theory. In theory, ofcourse feminism sounds good. But why don't you proof that theory by searching for 'feminism in practice' for instance and wander around the search results.

Why would I use the internet for truth-seeking?
We disagree, that is part of life.

Imowen wrote: "Feminism is not about equality period it's really about reducing the population. Gloria and her lap dog alice walker are nothing but tools to trick women that men are mistreating them. History less..."

How many red herrings can one introduce to a very straightforward discussion? Equality is not a zero sum game. If women gain the right to compete for what they need without the artificial barriers of discrimination, society wins.

The point of this discussion is to tell people about a group that discusses women's issues, particularly those where women have the opportunity to compete with men for jobs, positions of power, equal pay. That's freedom. If you choose to not compete, that's fine for you. For me and millions of other women who need those opportunities, feminism continues to advocate equal opportunity for all.

revcodes wrote: "Imowen wrote: "Feminism is not about equality period it's really about reducing the population. Gloria and her lap dog alice walker are nothing but tools to trick women that men are mistreating the..."

Exactly! Opportunity to choose, whatever the choice.

Pooyan wrote: "who is Emma Watson and who cares anyway?"

Haven't you heard of the Harry Potter series of books/movies? If you have, then you should already know who Emma Watson is. If you haven't, there's no use explaining it to you. You wouldn't understand.

As for your second question ("And who cares?"): People who worship celebrities.

"How many red herrings can one introduce to a very straightforward discussion? Equality is not a zero sum game. If women gain the right to compete for what they need without the artificial barriers of discrimination, society wins."

Thank you revcodes. It distresses me to see so many women who have no real understanding of what feminism means deciding it's not for them. Those of you who think this is a communist plot seem to believe that you'll be retaining your privileges forever. Who do you think obtained those privileges for you? The right to have credit cards, to vote, to get a divorce, make contracts, and to own property in your own name, all of these things were not available to you until other women fought for your right to do so.

As long as there are women in this world who don't have equal access to education, equal opportunities for employment and the right to lives their lives as they choose, feminism is needed. Those of you women who think you don't need it, must be living in a fairy land where you have never been the victim of a crime or discrimination due to your gender. Give me the address, I want to move there too.

Anny wrote: "'Are you a feminist?'
'No, I prefer gender equality.'

Is about the same thing as:

'Would you like some water?'
'No, I prefer H2O.'"

Exactly this!!! ^^^^^^^

In any case, feminism is about women's entitlement, not about equality. Don't kid yourselves. Wage gap in Western countries? Reports even indicate that young women earn more than men http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015...

Women in western countries have tons and tons of special privileges: they mostly don't have to pay as much as men when going out, they have special lady channels, special lady nights, special lady magazines,... And in the end of the day they can cry whenever they want while men should be strong.

So what is feminism about then? To stop rapes? Please, mass rapings in Cologne and the following feminist silence are testament that this is a lie. Feminists know they won't stop rape for there will always be perverts with more physical power. Anything in their agenda is aimed at the white male: to destroy the family of the white male, create individualistic beings who eagerly consume and to encourage mixing with other cultures to attain the ultimate goal of a neo-Marxist suffocating homogenous melting pot with a large demoralized and numb middle class and an aggressive proletariat.

Rory wrote: ""How many red herrings can one introduce to a very straightforward discussion? Equality is not a zero sum game. If women gain the right to compete for what they need without the artificial barriers..."
It is a fallacy to point to past achievements. Feminism once had a noble goal. A goal that has been achieved by now, in Western countries. Without a real reason to exist, it now aims for the most ludicrous matters in popular culture with only the slightest hint of 'patriarchy'. Meanwhile, Islam-women's rights' biggest threat, is being encouraged by these same feminists.

One has to be quite oikophobic to not find that premise absurd.

Wow, racist much? People like you are one reason why feminism is needed. Thanks for at least being overt with your beliefs, as they are...

Breathing wrote: "In any case, feminism is about women's entitlement, not about equality. Don't kid yourselves. Wage gap in Western countries? Reports even indicate that young women earn more than men http://www.the..."

The so-called "mass rapes" were debunked as RUSSIAN agitprop.

James wrote: "Wow, racist much? People like you are one reason why feminism is needed. Thanks for at least being overt with your beliefs, as they are..."

Gosh, your dogmatic phrasings are becoming too much for me. My dear James, have you got the slightest idea what is racism? Assuming you hinted at my take on Islam, I'll have you know that this (also totalitarian ideology) religion is something one abides by and can shed off, unlike skin colour.

Feminism is awesome! Everyone should be a feminist! Up with feminism! Power to the feminists! :)

Amber wrote: "Breathing wrote: "In any case, feminism is about women's entitlement, not about equality. Don't kid yourselves. Wage gap in Western countries? Reports even indicate that young women earn more than ..."
Amber,you'rebeing silly. For such an insanely farfetched allegation, you have got to provide some hard proof. In fact, these mass rapes have been minimized until the social media storm was too big for the establishment to withhold. So please, provide some hard proof. '

Breathing wrote: "to destroy the family of the white male"

It's an interesting family if there are no females in it. I don't think most women are interested in destroying the families of gay couples...

Erma wrote: "Nice to see a movement focused on books and education, rather than ideals!"

Completely agreed.

Breathing wrote: "Amber wrote: "Breathing wrote: "In any case, feminism is about women's entitlement, not about equality. Don't kid yourselves. Wage gap in Western countries? Reports even indicate that young women e..."

Why should I? You'll just deny my source, even if it's Putin himself admitting it.

Tytti: Amen. Especially the "I don't think most women are interested in destroying the families of gay couples... " part.

Carolina: Even if some of the books, are in one's own opinion, awful. Re: My previous remarks about books in the Twitlight Saga vein.

OK, I did this, but let's not continue (as in: continue letting someone against feminism derail something positive...). If Breathing and that ilk are right and true, their idea(l)s will win out. If not, then not. Let us use our energy for good, not circuitous, endless nothingness.

So far I am loving this group! It empowers and also makes us feel confident, open our eyes to feminism and problems feminists feel. One of the best communities out here on Goodreads. Thank you @EmmaWatsonBookClub for starting this! Raise your voices ladies, show the world we are not weak and we deserve equal rights in the world.

James wrote: "OK, I did this, but let's not continue (as in: continue letting someone against feminism derail something positive...). If Breathing and that ilk are right and true, their idea(l)s will win out. If..."
Okay, whatever James. But do know that the truth does not always win out. Post WWII ideologies have been plagued with lobbygroups and hidden agendas. Especially socialist movements (which are a direct influence on feminism).

Yeah right, feminism = socialism... One of the biggest all female voluntary organisations was forbidden by the Allies after WWII because it was supposedly fascist (funnily enough there were even Jewish volunteers in it, and Muslims and atheists among the Christian majority). Would you make up your mind already?

Tytti wrote: "Yeah right, feminism = socialism... One of the biggest all female voluntary organisations was forbidden by the Allies after WWII because it was supposedly fascist (funnily enough there were even Je..."

For a site like Goodreads your sure don't know to read comprehensively. I didn't say feminism= socialism . Look more closely...

Breathing wrote: "Tytti wrote: "Yeah right, feminism = socialism... One of the biggest all female voluntary organisations was forbidden by the Allies after WWII because it was supposedly fascist (funnily enough ther..."

"Especially socialist movements (which are a direct influence on feminism)." It's close enough, especially from someone so narrow-minded who rants about "neo-marxist movements".

Tytti wrote: "Breathing wrote: "Tytti wrote: "Yeah right, feminism = socialism... One of the biggest all female voluntary organisations was forbidden by the Allies after WWII because it was supposedly fascist (f..."
"It's close enough, especially from someone so narrow-minded who rants about "neo-marxist movements". "
I consider you beaten. If rabid feminists can't even convincingly defend their movement, it is telling how weak their doctrine has become. Oh well.

So now everyone who disagrees with you is a rapid feminist? And what is "my movement"? I am just laughing at you.

Breathing wrote: "Women in western countries have tons and tons of special privileges: they mostly don't have to pay as much as men when going out, they have special lady channels, special lady nights, special lady magazines,..."

Wha?! You mean I get a discount when I go out to eat because I gots girlee parts? When did this start happening? Do other women know??

As for "lady channels", there are "guy channels" too, you know...

As for "lady nights"... I don't know what that is. Really. Do I get a night of the week named for me or something?

As for "lady magazines", there are "guy magazines" too. I subscribe to Men's Health for instance because I prefer some of the workouts they feature.

I wouldn't call any of these "special privileges" (except for maybe the first, but I've yet to hear of this one...). Which one is "special"?