The Lucifer Chat
Yeah, he even plays the piano.
So, the Lucifer chat. For those of you not up to date on my ongoing Lucifer hatefest, Krissie (aka Anne Stuart), liked the pilot and wanted to keep watching, Lani didn’t like the pilot but saw potential, and I hated the pilot with the fury of a thousand firey suns. However, pilots often suck, so we agreed to meet in a Slack chatroom and watch episode 2. Nothing we saw changed our minds; Krissie is still going to watch it, and I have no plans to ever look at it again. I think Lani’s fed up with it, too, but I forgot to ask her. I’m not at all sure how much value this transcript has, but we promised so . . .
jenny [5:24 PM]
Let us know when you’re ready, Krissie.
krissie [5:24 PM]
previously on Lucifer
lani [5:24 PM]
Okay, I’m on previously, too
jenny [5:24 PM]
Mine’s loading.
And I am, too.
Previously, I mean.
lani [5:25 PM]
I am so uninterested in that detective.
krissie [5:25 PM]
me too. I think it’s the actress
lani [5:25 PM]
I think it’s the writing. 
krissie [5:25 PM]
but I’m keeping an open mind
jenny [5:25 PM]
And the woman in the bar and the angel.
lani [5:26 PM]
I like Jenny’s version of the shrink.
jenny [5:26 PM]
It’s the actress and the writing.
lani [5:26 PM]
I do like the visual style of the direction. It’s very pretty, and the effects are good.
jenny [5:26 PM]
Even the intro doesn’t make sense.
Isn’t the Devil the King of Lies?
lani [5:28 PM]
So is the deal that he tells everyone he’s the devil, but they don’t remember? Or they don’t believe him?
krissie [5:28 PM]
probably both
lol
(few things bigger)
lani [5:28 PM]
I believe the Devil does traffic in lies, but then, this is an independent world, so… whatever…
jenny [5:28 PM]
I love Rachael Harris.
The intro says it’s not an independent world.
lani [5:29 PM]
No, I mean the worldbuilding is independent of the Bible. It’s really inspired by more than a documentary.
krissie [5:29 PM]
I like the cop’s eyes
nice and sad looking
jenny [5:29 PM]
You know, the stuff with the therapist works.
She gives him another layer to play.
krissie [5:30 PM]
definitely
lani [5:30 PM]
“Dancing with the Devil” in the song… a little too on the nose, maybe.
I like that he’s struggling with it, and in denial.
jenny [5:30 PM]
Oh, good, he plays piano, too.
Bad, bad writing.
lani [5:31 PM]
Her eyes are in her face. He knows that… right?
jenny [5:31 PM]
Ew, ew, ew, ew.
Bad banter. Bad, bad, BAD BANTER.
krissie [5:32 PM]
calm down, Crusie
jenny [5:32 PM]
EW EW EW EW EW EW
What makes you different? Said Edward to Bella.
BLEAH.
Oh, thank, god, she’s gone.
lani [5:33 PM]
Oh, so here’s another mystery to solve. Cop procedural seems a kind of pedestrian conflict engine for this concept.
krissie [5:33 PM]
The funny thing is you’re going into this looking for bad stuff, whereas Im going into it looking for good stuff.
jenny [5:33 PM]
I like Brother Blood in this.
lani [5:33 PM]
Share your good stuff, K! Save us from our horrid cynicism. (And I’m not being sarcastic; I genuinely mean that. I wish there was a sincerity emoji.)
krissie [5:33 PM]
who’s brother blood?
jenny [5:33 PM]
Ex-husband.
Used to be on Arrow.
lani [5:34 PM]
Oh, hey. That’s Daniel from LOST.
jenny [5:34 PM]
EW EW EW. I can’t take the smarm.
krissie [5:34 PM]
yup
Love Daniel.
lani [5:34 PM]
I really like that actor. Maybe he can elevate the scene.
jenny [5:35 PM]
For that moment that he lost his smile, he was effective.
The thing is Blood is playing it straight.
He’s the most believable character in this.
krissie [5:37 PM]
oh come on, the pot is funny
jenny [5:37 PM]
That was stupid.
krissie [5:37 PM]
LOL
jenny [5:37 PM]
See, I can’t respect stupidity.
Oh, good, John Pankow is in this again.
krissie [5:38 PM]
I’m not interested in respecting the show, I’m interesting in being entertained. I know the stupidity stops the entertainment aspect
jenny [5:38 PM]
He’s bi? Excellent.
lani [5:38 PM]
They’re just working the Cool Lucifer thing too hard.
jenny [5:38 PM]
The Devil would be; doubles his chances.
I like the time stopping thing to announce the brother’s intro.
lani [5:39 PM]
Oh, now here’s Amenadiel to do nothing.
jenny [5:39 PM]
But he keeps saying the SAME DAMN THING.
They did this last week.
lani [5:39 PM]
Twice.
jenny [5:39 PM]
Okay, according to the intro, God condemned Lucifer to Hell.
And then he [Lucifer] just left.
lani [5:39 PM]
But DB Woodside looks good. Even though it doesn’t work, I like him.
jenny [5:40 PM]
Because “condemned” doesn’t mean you can’t leave.
krissie [5:40 PM]
me too
jenny [5:40 PM]
Oh, wait, it does.
And he just said, “Sent his favorite son.”
lani [5:40 PM]
Yeah, if he’d broken a rule to leave, great.
jenny [5:40 PM]
Woodside is so wasted here.
Love the apple stuff, though.
lani [5:40 PM]
But God is supposed to be all powerful… if he wants Lucifer back in hell, he sends him.
No, it’s a nice effect.
jenny [5:40 PM]
I think that’s one of the big weaknesses here.
krissie [5:41 PM]
Depends on god. The god in my stories is hands off.
jenny [5:41 PM]
They don’t have a coherent mythology.
lani [5:41 PM]
And I’m sorry, but I hate the kid. Not the kid, but the writing for the kid, and the way they use her.
jenny [5:41 PM]
Cute Kid Alert.
krissie [5:41 PM]
I love his dislike of the kid
jenny [5:41 PM]
I like it that he doesn’t like her.
lani [5:41 PM]
But the God in this story is all powerful, right? He condemned Lucifer to hell for all eternity. Or to 2016. Whatever comes first.
jenny [5:42 PM]
According to the crawl at the beginning, that’s what happened.
But not according to anything in the actual story.
lani [5:42 PM]
So her two personality traits are… was nude in a movie, can resist Lucifer’s charm. Ugh.
krissie [5:42 PM]
ok, the mother explains her movie
jenny [5:42 PM]
They don’ t have a coherent mythology in a show with a mythological hero.
Oh, Christ. “Two girls.” He’s BANAL.
[5:43]
Okay, that’s fun.
Reminds me of that scene long ago with George Clooney on ER.
lani [5:44 PM]
Yes, interrogate the guy about how she’s immune to your charms. OMG.
jenny [5:45 PM]
The guy playing the creep is really good.
krissie [5:45 PM]
That’s Daniel. Love him
lani [5:45 PM]
He’s so good. Love that guy.
Jeremy… Davies? I think?
jenny [5:45 PM]
THIS is good.
krissie [5:45 PM]
yup
jenny [5:46 PM]
When he stops smiling, he’s good.
Okay, THAT was excellent.
lani [5:47 PM]
Wait, how old was the murder victim? This dad looks pretty young.
jenny [5:47 PM]
Well, Hollywood.
lani [5:47 PM]
Yeah.
krissie [5:47 PM]
I like her blue sling. Mine’s the same but black
jenny [5:47 PM]
This scene is dull. It should be amazing, but it’s just flat.
lani [5:48 PM]
Aw, how’s your arm, baby?
krissie [5:48 PM]
hurts, I’m afraid.
lani [5:49 PM]
Oh, no. Hope it feels better soon.
jenny [5:49 PM]
There was potential there. Two weak actresses and bad dialogue kneecapped it.
You’re right. He’s good.
Oh, sorry about your arm, Krissie.
lani [5:49 PM]
I like the actor playing Lucifer, but the writing doesn’t typically give him something to work with.
jenny [5:50 PM]
Although if this was good TV, you wouldn’t be feeling it. It’s kind of like looking at the clock.
I don’t care about this mystery at all. Where’s Rachael Harris?
Where’s the dung beetle? That was good stuff.
Spectacularly creepy, that’s a bonus.
I like the way he sowed chaos there.
krissie [5:52 PM]
me too
lani [5:52 PM]
We have all of Heaven and Hell at our disposal for stories, and we’re doing this? Seems a waste.
jenny [5:52 PM]
This guy can play subtle really well, and they keep giving him over-the-top smarm.
Meanwhile, the ex is sympathetic because he’s getting rational dialogue.
I’d rather watch the ex and Lucifer.
I like it when he takes on the creeps.
Kind of creep on creep.
I like the planned photo bit.
I like the idea of paps creating chaos; it’s a nice parallel to Lucifer.
They’re just not working it.
krissie [5:55 PM]
I don’t buy the two of them in the bar talking though
jenny [5:56 PM]
The cop and the Devil?
I don’t buy any of it.
krissie [5:56 PM]
yup
jenny [5:56 PM]
There’s no coherence.
krissie [5:57 PM]
I buy a lot of it, but not that
jenny [5:57 PM]
This guy is really good. The prisoner.
She’s not good. He elevates the dialogue and she gets pulled under by it.
Okay, I love that stuff, Lucifer walking off with the prisoner.
The problem is, he can do anything, he doesn’t have a coherent personality, and there’s no depth to him.
The actor is good, but he’s not being given any layers to play
and in fact the dialogue is deliberately keeping him one dimensional.
lani [5:59 PM]
Too much power, too little conflict
He’s also got no skin in the game, aside from his emergent empathy, which is the most interesting and yet most ignored element here.
jenny [6:00 PM]
That’s the most interesting Maze has been.
So nobody’s being punished in hell?
lani [6:01 PM]
So.. no one’s suffering in hell anymore.
And he has to punish people individually.
That’s a lot of work.
jenny [6:02 PM]
! saw that(bullet-less gun) coming. Why didn’t Lucifer?
lani [6:02 PM]
Oh, is this supposed to be angel and devil on the shoulder?
jenny [6:02 PM]
Oh, bleah.
Why did she put a bullet in the other gun?
krissie [6:03 PM]
lol
jenny [6:03 PM]
You know, attacking a helpless man isn’t funny to me.
krissie [6:03 PM]
if he’s that bad it is to me
lani [6:04 PM]
Is there a consequence to Amenadiel’s threats now? What is it?
jenny [6:04 PM]
You know that bullet time stuff is overdone.
Especially when it’s that stupid.
krissie [6:04 PM]
we don’t know what the threat means. I can ride with it
jenny [6:05 PM]
Yeah, that’s the fourth time he’s said, “You’re gonna be sorry.”
It lacks impact.
lani [6:05 PM]
Right, but if Lucifer doesn’t know what it is, it fails.
jenny [6:05 PM]
God, they’re boring together.
lani [6:05 PM]
We don’t have to know, but Lucifer does.
jenny [6:06 PM]
Did she have sex in that movie?
Jesus, HER KID HAS SEEN PORN?
krissie [6:06 PM]
I don’t think it’s porn, I think it’s like American Pie
lol
jenny [6:06 PM]
Oh. So why is she so ashamed?
krissie [6:06 PM]
i’m sorry I think the kid is funny too
jenny [6:07 PM]
YAY RACHAEL
Why is she wearing her bra? Lucifer is that bad a lover?
lani [6:07 PM]
It’s network tv
jenny [6:07 PM]
Oh, Jimmy.
And now she’s gloating over somebody in prison.
John Pankow rocks.
How clueless is she? “He’s just a man.” Jesus.
What a tragic waste of acting talent.
krissie [6:09 PM]
I like how dangerous they’re saying he is
jenny [6:09 PM]
Yeah, they SAY it, they don’t SHOW it. Until the end.
lani [6:10 PM]
But he’s not, really. He punishes the wicked. He isn’t, of himself, really evil.
krissie [6:10 PM]
ok, bottom line I think it works for me and doesn’t work for you
jenny [6:10 PM]
Plus the writers are using such tired tropes. Like the gun without the bullet.
Well, yeah, I think so, too
lani [6:10 PM]
LOL, poor Krissie. It always sucks being the one defending.
jenny [6:11 PM]
Here:
It Works Better with Bullets – TV Tropes
The “It works better with bullets” trope.
krissie [6:11 PM]
Naah, it’s ok. I’m not necessarily defending it, I’m just saying that some stuff works for me that doesn’t work for you guys. And some things drive you crazy but I’m able to overlook it.
jenny [6:11 PM]
Along with Only She Is Immune To My Power.
krissie [6:11 PM]
Doesn’t matter if it’s a trope. Everything is a trope.
jenny [6:11 PM]
And She’s Bitchy but Beautiful so I Love Her.
krissie [6:11 PM]
Name something that’s tropeless
jenny [6:12 PM]
No, everything isn’t a trope. The point is, it matters what you DO with the trope.
If you just repeat it, it’s a cliche.
krissie [6:12 PM]
yes, true. And this isn’t brilliant tv.
jenny [6:12 PM]
Did you really not know that Maz hadn’t loaded whosis’s gun?
krissie [6:13 PM]
didn’t pay attention. Plus it didn’t make sense for her to load one and not the other.
jenny [6:13 PM]
I agree.
None of that made sense, including what Lucifer did.
krissie [6:13 PM]
Lucifer would”t care if they killed each other, so she had no reason to keep one bullet out.
jenny [6:13 PM]
He asks for his brother to come down, I assume because he wanted time to slow so he grab the bullet?
But he can’t do it on his own?
krissie [6:14 PM]
we don’t know. I wasn’t clear on why he called his brother down
lani [6:14 PM]
And calling his brother down to slow the bullet seems weird.
jenny [6:14 PM]
This makes no sense to me and it’s because Lucifer doesn’t make sense.
I could buy any number of ridiculous coincidences if I could understand what the fuck is going on with Lucifer.
But they’re doing so much hand-waving that he has no character.
krissie [6:15 PM]
whereas I’m waiting for him to reveal himself
jenny [6:15 PM]
I think he has.
He does not appear to be hiding anything.
krissie [6:15 PM]
not really
oh, he’s got shit’
so how would you guys sum up your thoughts?
Lani?
lani [6:16 PM]
I think this has a lot of potential, but misses the mark.
krissie [6:17 PM]
what are your general thoughts about it? any redeeming qualities or a total waste of time
I guess for me it’s like certain flawed books. If there’s something i can hold onto, something I really love, then I’ll go along for the ride until it gets too stupid. And it hasn’t reached that point for me yet
lani [6:18 PM]
It’s okay to have things that present questions, but things that are in active conflict with each other (like Lucifer clearly having empathy, and then being told his empathy is a problem even though it’s already part of his personality) just make it kind of muddy.
I like the concept, but I hate how it’s wasted. We have this extended mythological world, but the conflict engine (borrowed from the cop, it’s not even Lucifer’s conflict) is a pedestrian police procedural.
krissie [6:18 PM]
Whereas I like Lucifer having contradictions and not understanding them, plus he’s cute, makes it work for me.
lani [6:19 PM]
He is cute. I really do like the actor, and I can definitely see why you like him.
krissie [6:19 PM]
so that’s enough to carry me for now.
lani [6:19 PM]
That’s good. God knows, there are loads of things I love that I can’t defend.
jenny [6:19 PM]
I think if you love it, you don’t have to defend it.
krissie [6:19 PM]
I think it’s interesting that I love it and you guys hate it.
jenny [6:19 PM]
“I love it” is enough.
krissie [6:19 PM]
yup
jenny [6:20 PM]
I hate sloppy, lazy storytelling.
krissie [6:20 PM]
okay, Richie’s got dinner for me. Thanks, guys. This was fun
lani [6:20 PM]
Later, K! Glad you made it!
krissie [6:20 PM]
smooch to both of you
jenny [6:20 PM]
Bye Krissie!
I get the feeling that the writers said, “You know, Gaiman wrote this great story about Lucifer, let’s make a show about Lucifer.”
lani [6:20 PM]
I think that’s exactly what happened.
jenny [6:20 PM]
And they just went to every Devil cliche they could think of.
lani [6:21 PM]
And Gaiman’s original concept is pretty strong; I haven’t read the comics, but from what I read about the comics, it looks good.
jenny [6:21 PM]
Because the inconsistencies here are ridiculous.
lani [6:21 PM]
And the comics that came from that were also supposed to be good.
But I feel like we’re just making a Cool Guy, instead of telling a real story.
And they’re working the Cool so hard. It gets brittle.
I do not understand the whole cop thing.
It’s like Kate on Angel. She doesn’t belong there.
If she was interested in the supernatural, if it explained a case she was on, and she was pursuing him for answers, okay.
But for him to step out of supernatural world to solve regular mysteries… no.
jenny [6:22 PM]
Okay, I just went back to the beginning crawl.
It says “The angel Lucifer was cast out of Heaven and condemned to rule Hell for all eternity.”
Now tell me how he got out.
lani [6:23 PM]
All eternity or until 2016, whichever comes first.
jenny [6:23 PM]
Tell me he’s pulling a con on God.
Tell me there are repercussions.
Tell me he’s breaking a sweat.
lani [6:23 PM]
But God is all powerful. If he can send him there once, he can send him back.
That’s the thing. It’s not consistent.
jenny [6:24 PM]
Hell, He could make it impossible for him to ever LEAVE.
lani [6:24 PM]
Even if there was a loophole that Lucifer played to get out… something.
jenny [6:24 PM]
The Devil as a con man, pulling the ultimate con on God, that’s a back story.
lani [6:24 PM]
But if getting out is a big deal, that kind of needs to be where the story starts. When he gets out, how, why, and WHAT HE WANTS.
Which is still not clear.
jenny [6:24 PM]
EXACTLY.
Not “I got bored so I left and now every now and then God sends an angel to tell me I better go back or else.”
lani [6:25 PM]
Or else… I’ll come back again and tell you to go back.
jenny [6:25 PM]
And then I’ll come back again.
They did all that handwaving over the stuff that would have grounded the series.
lani [6:25 PM]
He has to WANT something. He doesn’t even really want the cop.
jenny [6:25 PM]
And Maz (?) will squirm around and tell me I’m becoming human because why?
lani [6:25 PM]
And when I come back next time, there had better be cookies.
Oh, god, who cares about Maze?
jenny [6:26 PM]
I have this horrible, horrible feeling that the reason he can’t whammy the cop is because she’s his soulmate.
All evidence to the contrary. Talk about an appalling lack of chemistry.
lani [6:26 PM]
I don’t even know how they make the devil an equal to a regular mortal woman.
jenny [6:26 PM]
You’re right, too. He has no goal.
lani [6:26 PM]
She’s terrible. They write terribly for her.
jenny [6:26 PM]
Except that he doesn’t want to go back to Hell, so negative goal.
lani [6:27 PM]
Because she has two personality traits; Hot and Doesn’t Like Lucifer.
jenny [6:27 PM]
They write terribly for everyone. What they’re doing to the actor playing Lucifer is a crime.
lani [6:27 PM]
Right, avoidance is a narrative black hole.
jenny [6:27 PM]
That scene with the prisoner wasn’t great writing, but there were two solidly good actors working it together.
lani [6:27 PM]
The prisoner was really good. Love that actor.
jenny [6:28 PM]
Then the cop does that scene at the end with John Pankow, and he might as well have been in there alone. He’s marvelous; she’s . . . flat.
lani [6:28 PM]
Sorry – gotta run.
Homework stuff.
This was fun, though! Glad we got together!
jenny [6:28 PM]
Yeah, I’ve bitched long enough.
Not sure this is going to be terribly interesting on the blog.
lani [6:28 PM]
LOL, Lord it wasn’t good.
jenny [6:28 PM]
Bad, bad, bad.
lani [6:28 PM]
Yeah, I don’t know. Maybe not.
Take care, babe.
jenny [6:28 PM]
You, too. Kiss the kids for me.
lani [6:29 PM]
Will do. night!
jenny [6:29 PM]
Night!
Yeah, I’m not sure that was useful to any of you at all.
Then I went looking for a picture for this post and found this petition, so I revised it to make it more effective:
I really don’t like this show.
The post The Lucifer Chat appeared first on Argh Ink.
