Wolf Hall query
On a historical front, today was the wedding of a very mismatched royal pair, Henry VI and Marguerite d’Anjou, on April 22, 1445. And I forgot that yesterday was the death date of Henry Tudor in 1509, or otherwise I’d have baked a cake. Interestingly, they don’t seem to know for sure what killed him; he was only in his early fifties. He’d apparently suffered from ill health for some time and I’ve seen tuberculosis suggested as one possibility; that seems to be the most likely cause of death of his grandson, Edward VI.
I’ve been meaning to ask this. Are many of you watching Wolf Hall? And what is the verdict so far?
I’ve been meaning to ask this. Are many of you watching Wolf Hall? And what is the verdict so far?
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Samantha
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Apr 23, 2015 08:55AM
I am watching it. It is hard to capture the inter-workings of Cromwell's mind the way the book does, but I'm enjoying it.
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I think the series is wonderful. Of course it doesn't have all the thoughts in Cromwell's head as the books but the dialogue is sharp & Mark Rylance is excellent. I've just finished the first book so it's easy for me to fill in the rest. I think it's unfair to compare stories in different mediums -- yes, of course, the book is almost always better. I appreciate the vividness of a filmed story as much as the intricacy of a written one.
The obvious answer is that stress and guilt killed Henry VII. (Kidding...or am I?) ;-)I have been watching Wolf Hall only because I like Rylance, who is doing a good job. I actually also saw the first half of the Broadway play of it this weekend too (I could have seen both Wolf Hall and Bringing Up the Bodies in one day, but there is only so much Tudor history I can stomach in one sitting) and on some levels I preferred that incarnation. It felt swifter and it had more moments of levity, however small, that I welcomed.
Been watching Wolf Hall - having to watch online because there is too much good TV on during the same time Sunday night!!!Isn't it thought that one of the things that killed "beloved" Henry was gout and sepsis?
Henry Tudor or his Bluebeard son, Gin? I know they used to think Henry 8th had syphilis, but that has since been discredited. There seems to be a consensus that Henry 7th died of some sort of respiratory ailment like tuberculosis or pneumonia. Like you, Christine, I can only take my Tudor history in small doses!
Christine wrote: "The obvious answer is that stress and guilt killed Henry VII. (Kidding...or am I?) ;-)I have been watching Wolf Hall only because I like Rylance, who is doing a good job. I actually also saw the ..."
Christine: I have a good friend who's read the books, is watching the TV series, and will see the play in New York in a couple of weeks. Disregarding the time limitations, which did you like best? (Or is that a fair question?)
I have enjoyed the first 3 episodes. Thomas Cromwell is being played brilliantly by Rylance, and Mr. Lewis has played an interesting Henry VIII.Also enjoying Bernard Hill as the Duke of Norfolk.
Why does everyone dislike Henry VII so much? After the Wars of the Roses, his reign provided the stability England needed. I'll admit his reign had a rocky start, what with all the rebellions against him, but that's the same with every usurper, Richard III included.
He was not a likable person, Emily, and utterly ruthless in eliminating any threats to his dynasty. He was intelligent; I grant you that. And he seems to have become fond of Elizabeth of York, although I give her the credit for making that marriage work. And I disagree that the Tudors brought stability to England. They only ruled for little more than a hundred years, but they had a higher body count than all of the Plantagenet rulers combined and they'd ruled for 300 years. But They certainly provided material for Hollywood film writers.
I thought that Henry VII was actually more merciful than some of the other kings, particularly his son, or Edward I, or even Richard III. Henry VII executed people, but he spared some that might have been dangerous to let live. Though Henry imprisoned him for years, Henry did not execute Clarence's son until pressure from Spain forced his hand, and he did not condemn the Countess of Salisbury to the block either, even though he knew very well the power of mothers in supporting their sons' aspirations to the throne. I also can't particularly blame him for not being too likable. He was taken from his mother, he never knew his father, and if he ever returned home he would have been imprisoned or executed. His childhood must have been terrible.
As for the Tudors as a whole, I definitely see what you're saying. I knew they killed many people, but I didn't know that they killed more than the entire Plantagenet house combined. I would have thought that otherwise. But I still have to give the Tudors some credit. Elizabeth I did a very good job calming England down from the religious wars of her predecessors, and the first two Tudor kings definitely re-established royal authority in England. After the Wars of the Roses, I would argue that that was exactly what England needed.
Emily brings up some good points, but I have to land on the side of the Plantagents. I do think that Henry VIII became much more malicious after 1536.
You're right, David. In 1536, Henry suffered a serious brain injury from jousting. A lot of historians believe that it was largely responsible for his mood swings and violent temperament.
We may have to agree to disagree about Henry Tudor, Emily. :-) In my earlier complaints about the man, I forgot to mention one of his worst acts, for it was both illegal and immoral. He dated his reign from the day BEFORE Bosworth so he could then charge with treason men who'd fought for their lawful king. Whatever you may think of Richard's claim to the throne, he had been crowned and recognized as England's king and to me, Tudor's act shows something very troubling about his character. As for his son, I would agree that his deteriorating health influenced his behavior and not for the best. I read something once about him that I thought was quite interesting; unfortunately, I can't remember the source. This historian said that Anne Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell egged Henry on in his confrontation with the pope, arguing that he was, as king, answerable only to God. But it is never a good idea to let a lion know it is so powerful, and once Henry accepted their view of his unlimited authority, they both paid a high price for it. I am not saying I fully agree with that; I just thought it was an interesting observation. As for Elizabeth, who doesn't like her? Well, Team Mary Stuart, maybe. I jokingly call Elizabeth the only "good Tudor," but it is hard to imagine English history without her.
If you like Wolf Hall I would suggest that you might like reading the Shardlake series by C.J. Sansom. Cromwell and Henry VIII make appearances. It is the same time frame - for awhile.
I have read a little bit of Sansom, enjoyed him.
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