One of history's more intriguing What Ifs
April 2nd is the birthdate of Charlemagne, first Holy Roman Emperor, in 742 AD. It is also the death date of Henry III’s brother, Richard, Earl of Cornwell, in 1272. But the most interesting death occurred in 1502 when Henry VIII and Elizabeth of York’s eldest son, Arthur, died at the age of fifteen, leaving Katherine of Aragon as a young widow. This is one of history most fascinating What Ifs. Think how history would have been altered had Arthur not died so prematurely. Imagine how different England and Europe would have been if his brother, Henry, had never become king. We don’t know enough about Arthur to say what sort of king he would have made, but it is much easier to envision an England without Henry at the helm. No break with Church of Rome; that seems very safe to say, and that alone is a monumental change. We’d have been spared Showtime’s The Tudors series, surely a blessing, no? But England without Elizabeth? Without Gloriana? I for one would miss her.
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Wasn't prince Arthur (Katherine of Aragon's first husband) Henry VII's, not Henry VIII's son?
Marilyn wrote: "Wasn't prince Arthur (Katherine of Aragon's first husband) Henry VII's, not Henry VIII's son?"Yes. This is what Sharon is saying--what if Arthur had lived and had children with Katherine of Aragon? -It is the 'what if' question. And of course there would be no Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn so therefore no Elizabeth I.
Hello Rebecca, thank you for your response to my post. It is always a compliment to hear from another history buff. I actually understood Sharon's what if, I was just correcting the Henry VIII being married to Elizabeth of York part. That particular Elizabeth of York was the mother of Arthur and Henry VIII. I am sorry if I caused confusion, by how I worded my question. But I have often wondered what if Arthur had lived as well, whether or not his reign would have been successful and whether he would have gone on to be remembered as one of England's great kings, or not.
Hi Marilyn,I think like us all, Sharon probably made a typo, because if anyone knows their history it will be, Sharon.
Unfortunately Arthur gets lost as he died so young, but with Henry VII as a father one can only guess at what influence his father had over him. Then of course their is his awful grandmother, Margaret Beaufort....But I think the Catholic Church would still be the main religion and there would've been NO Elizabeth I....We are also left to guess at what influence if any that Elizabeth of York had over her children with a tyrant for a husband and an ogre for a mother in law, I don't think her life would have been easy.
Hello Rebecca,
I think that you are right, and I agree that Sharon knows her history. She writes some of the best historical fiction out there. I just wanted to correct the typo, I meant no disrespect. I just didn't want other readers to get confused, that was why I posted.
It is hard to say which direction Arthur would have chosen, had he lived. I agree with you completely concerning Henry VII and from what I have read thus far, I am not impressed with Margaret Beaufort either. The more I read about the Tudors, the less I like them. I don't even want to get started about them. I suppose Edward VI would be the one I tolerate the most. Had he lived longer he may have been just as murderous as the rest of them. I saw Mary Queen of Scots surrounded by traitors and it was not until I read John Guy's book on her, that I changed my opinion of her. She didn't stand a chance. Lord Burghley was not going to be happy until he had her gone. John Guy opened my eyes to Mary Queen of Scots, just as Paul Murray Kendall, Philippa Langley and Michael Stone have for Richard III. It is a shame that Mary Queen of Scots is still getting a bad rap. But as with Richard III, I believe that will begin to change as more information is uncovered about her. My daughter recently visited Scotland, and she said that the Scots now are proud of her, and they now consider her to have been a much maligned queen. If you are a fan of non fiction, there is also a book written by Sarah Gristwood, about Arbella: England's Lost Queen. It is believed that at one time Elizabeth I was grooming her to be the successor to the throne. I had never heard of Arbella, so naturally I wanted to read this book. Sarah Gristwood is a non fiction author as is John Guy, who are blessed with the ability to make non fiction read like historical fiction.
Once more, it has been an honor to communicate thoughts with you. You are obviously well educated and therefore I look forward to reading your posts. Are you into the Romanovs? I have read some non fiction books on them as well. The books written about them are difficult to handle at the end...
I think that you are right, and I agree that Sharon knows her history. She writes some of the best historical fiction out there. I just wanted to correct the typo, I meant no disrespect. I just didn't want other readers to get confused, that was why I posted.
It is hard to say which direction Arthur would have chosen, had he lived. I agree with you completely concerning Henry VII and from what I have read thus far, I am not impressed with Margaret Beaufort either. The more I read about the Tudors, the less I like them. I don't even want to get started about them. I suppose Edward VI would be the one I tolerate the most. Had he lived longer he may have been just as murderous as the rest of them. I saw Mary Queen of Scots surrounded by traitors and it was not until I read John Guy's book on her, that I changed my opinion of her. She didn't stand a chance. Lord Burghley was not going to be happy until he had her gone. John Guy opened my eyes to Mary Queen of Scots, just as Paul Murray Kendall, Philippa Langley and Michael Stone have for Richard III. It is a shame that Mary Queen of Scots is still getting a bad rap. But as with Richard III, I believe that will begin to change as more information is uncovered about her. My daughter recently visited Scotland, and she said that the Scots now are proud of her, and they now consider her to have been a much maligned queen. If you are a fan of non fiction, there is also a book written by Sarah Gristwood, about Arbella: England's Lost Queen. It is believed that at one time Elizabeth I was grooming her to be the successor to the throne. I had never heard of Arbella, so naturally I wanted to read this book. Sarah Gristwood is a non fiction author as is John Guy, who are blessed with the ability to make non fiction read like historical fiction.
Once more, it has been an honor to communicate thoughts with you. You are obviously well educated and therefore I look forward to reading your posts. Are you into the Romanovs? I have read some non fiction books on them as well. The books written about them are difficult to handle at the end...
Hi Marilyn,many thanks for your kind words and yes SKP's books are the best when it comes to the Plantagenet's and also her wonderful Welsh trilogy. Have you read them? They are brilliant!
I had to leave high school in year two in order to help my family when my father was fighting cancer, so as far as education you can say I am self taught. I'm fortunate in that I have an inquiring mind and I love books. But you can probably tell by my terrible grammatical errors lol.
When it comes to Edward VI I think England may have been spared another tyrant, this may sound harsh as the boy was so young, but his own account of his uncles death(Edward Seymour)is rather chilling. But in those days I don't think life was as valued as it is now.
Mary Queen of Scots made some appalling decisions, but then again, unlike her cousin Elizabeth, she was surrounded by enemies and could trust no-one and she also had to contend with the fiery John Knox. But I believe her reign was doomed when she married Lord Darnley who seemed to show signs of being a psychopath or suffering some mental derangement(he was also connected to the Tudors thru his mother, Margaret Douglas). I think this began a downward spiral where no-one was willing to truly help her, but she was a fighter and one has to admire that at least.
I did see the book about Arbella but for some reason I did not buy it, maybe I should. I have also read Jon Guy's book on Thomas More and enjoyed it.
I do have a collection on the Romanov's From Nicholas & Alexandra by Robert K Massie-I think just about everyone has read that.
The Last Empress by Greg King
A Lifelong Passion....By Andrei Maylunas
Little Mother of Russa by Coryne Hall
Michael and Natasha...by Rosemary Crawford
The Romanovs:Love, Power and Tragedy by Alexander Bockanov
Ella: Princess, Saint and Martyr by Christopher Warwick
The Last Tsar by Edvard Radzinsky(I balled my eyes out with that one)
I have more but I don't want to bore you...I am wondering whether to buy the book on Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna as I have read about her in the other books; she sounds like a very formidable lady.
Your daughter was very fortunate as I would love to visit Scotland, the birth place of my late grandfather....
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It's a very interesting, and I must say rather convicing, case.