IN CONVERSATION: Kate Forsyth & Sophie Masson talk Fairy Tales (Part 3)
Kate Forsyth and Sophie Masson are both award-winning and internationally published Australian authors whose novels are often inspired by fairytales. Although Kate and Sophie live six hours drive away from each other, they often meet at literary festivals and conferences, or, when their paths cross, for lunch or dinner. They share a love of fairy tales, gardens, cooking, reading, writing, and living the big life.
Today they get together to talk about the craft of writing, and the challenge of rewriting fairytales. Kate's novel Bitter Greens is a retelling of the Rapunzel fairytale, interwoven with the dramatic life story of the woman who first told the tale, the 17th century French writer, Charlotte-Rose de la Force. Sophie’s novel Moonlight and Ashes, was inspired by Aschenputtel, the Grimm’s version of the well-known Cinderella tale. This conversation was first published on the wondrous fairy tale e-magazine ENCHANTED CONVERSATIONS.
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Kate: What are the biggest challenges of retelling such a well-known tale as Cinderella?
Sophie: The biggest challenges of retelling such a well-known tale as Cinderella is that people have certain assumptions about the character and the way the story goes. But it's my story, and so I've made it very much my vision of the character and the story arc. In fact the challenges are what make the story so good to write as you are constantly open to the unexpected that will transform familiar territory into surprising discovery.
Kate: I think the key word there is ‘surprising’. Many fairytale retellings lose that sense of surprise and wonder that is so important in hooking in the reader, and keep them wanting to turn the pages till long past midnight. I saw that as one of the biggest challenges in writing Bitter Greens. I decided one way to reinvigorate the story was to tell it as if it really happened, in our own world. The Rapunzel sections of Bitter Greens are set in Renaissance Venice, and feature real historical personages, such as the painter Titian and the fairytale teller Giambattista Basile (who wrote one of the earliest known versions of the Maiden in the Tower tale). I also chose to interweave the fairy tale retelling with the story of Charlotte-Rose de la Force, a scandalous writer of the late 17th century who wrote the version of Rapunzel that we know now. By making the story seem real, and entirely possible, I hoped to give the story new energy, filling it with suspense and surprise and spectacle.
Sophie: Oh, yes, I do agree. Setting the story in a real place, albeit transformed, as Ashberg is a transformed version of Prague, really helps with that as the usual fairy tale territory is rather vague--once upon a time in a land far away. That said, the story really took off when I started with 'Once upon a time'--only that too was transformed, as readers will see when they read the book!
Kate: How closely do you stick to the known story? Do you feel free to invert, subvert, or generally play around with it?
Sophie: I start from that familiar territory; I just make the journey go into different directions. I certainly feel completely free to do what I want, only I don't like to invert or subvert just for the sake of it, there's got to be a good reason for it. There's also a good reason why fairy tales continue to resonate with us--they really feel like they describe human nature and if you do too much consciously-ideological 'subverting' of that, it doesn't feel satisfying. But there's lots of scope to play around, still!
Kate: Cinderella has been retold so many times – what have you done with the tale that makes your work different?
Sophie: Well, most of all, my Cinderella--Selena--is no meek, resigned character. She can be prickly, and tough, but she's also got great tenderness and great intelligence. I wanted her to really be the heroine of her own story. But I also wanted the love interest to be interesting and strong, and to bring the whole setting alive in an unusual and exciting way.
Kate: Oh, I love a bit of romance in a novel. Though isn’t that one of the reasons why we all love fairy tales so much? They’re so romantic!
Sophie: There’s more than ‘a bit of’ romance in Bitter Greens, Kate! It’s very steamy in parts.
Kate: Oh, I know. But the original tale told by Charlotte-Rose de la Force was really very sexy. Her heroine Persinette was seduced by the prince and fell pregnant to him, and their love affair was betrayed by the growing size of her belly. Later, when the witch cast her out, Persinette bore twins by herself in the wilderness. The Grimm Brothers changed the story so that any hint of sex was taken out, to make it more suitable for a childish readership.
Sophie: Charlotte-Rose de la Force was not the retiring type either, by your account.
Kate: Oh, no, she was banished from the court because of her scandalous love affairs. One time she even dressed up as a dancing bear to gain access to her much younger lover, who had been locked away by his parents. It was this anecdote which first sparked my interest in her.
Sophie: one thing that draws many of us to re-writing fairy tales is the chance to give a voice and a sense of spirit to these fairy tale heroines who have been made so passive by re-tellers such as the Grimm brothers.
Kate: Okay, Sophie, let’s talk about craft. What’s your favourite part of writing a novel? And least favourite part?
Sophie: My favourite part of writing a novel is the beginning--so exciting, like being in love, an intense yet floaty feeling! Everything seems possible. And I love the end, when everything comes together in a kind of perfect symphony (hopefully!) I also love getting to know my characters, and also, in this kind of novel, creating magic. My least favourite part is the middle--sometimes I have to push myself through it! What about you, Kate, what's your favourite and least favourite part?
Kate: I love everything about WRITING the novel, even the times in the middle when the way forward seems unclear and you’re afraid you’ve lost the way. The only part I’m not fond of is the proofreading at the end, when I’ve read every sentence so many times it loses its freshness. However, I know it’s important, and it’s my last chance to make the book as good as I possibly can, and so I knuckle down and do the job. And it’s worth it when you finally get to hold the beautiful finished book in your hands ... now that’s a truly wonderful feeling!
Sophie: Isn’t it?
Today they get together to talk about the craft of writing, and the challenge of rewriting fairytales. Kate's novel Bitter Greens is a retelling of the Rapunzel fairytale, interwoven with the dramatic life story of the woman who first told the tale, the 17th century French writer, Charlotte-Rose de la Force. Sophie’s novel Moonlight and Ashes, was inspired by Aschenputtel, the Grimm’s version of the well-known Cinderella tale. This conversation was first published on the wondrous fairy tale e-magazine ENCHANTED CONVERSATIONS.
[image error] [image error]
Kate: What are the biggest challenges of retelling such a well-known tale as Cinderella?
Sophie: The biggest challenges of retelling such a well-known tale as Cinderella is that people have certain assumptions about the character and the way the story goes. But it's my story, and so I've made it very much my vision of the character and the story arc. In fact the challenges are what make the story so good to write as you are constantly open to the unexpected that will transform familiar territory into surprising discovery.
Kate: I think the key word there is ‘surprising’. Many fairytale retellings lose that sense of surprise and wonder that is so important in hooking in the reader, and keep them wanting to turn the pages till long past midnight. I saw that as one of the biggest challenges in writing Bitter Greens. I decided one way to reinvigorate the story was to tell it as if it really happened, in our own world. The Rapunzel sections of Bitter Greens are set in Renaissance Venice, and feature real historical personages, such as the painter Titian and the fairytale teller Giambattista Basile (who wrote one of the earliest known versions of the Maiden in the Tower tale). I also chose to interweave the fairy tale retelling with the story of Charlotte-Rose de la Force, a scandalous writer of the late 17th century who wrote the version of Rapunzel that we know now. By making the story seem real, and entirely possible, I hoped to give the story new energy, filling it with suspense and surprise and spectacle.
Sophie: Oh, yes, I do agree. Setting the story in a real place, albeit transformed, as Ashberg is a transformed version of Prague, really helps with that as the usual fairy tale territory is rather vague--once upon a time in a land far away. That said, the story really took off when I started with 'Once upon a time'--only that too was transformed, as readers will see when they read the book!
Kate: How closely do you stick to the known story? Do you feel free to invert, subvert, or generally play around with it?
Sophie: I start from that familiar territory; I just make the journey go into different directions. I certainly feel completely free to do what I want, only I don't like to invert or subvert just for the sake of it, there's got to be a good reason for it. There's also a good reason why fairy tales continue to resonate with us--they really feel like they describe human nature and if you do too much consciously-ideological 'subverting' of that, it doesn't feel satisfying. But there's lots of scope to play around, still!
Kate: Cinderella has been retold so many times – what have you done with the tale that makes your work different?
Sophie: Well, most of all, my Cinderella--Selena--is no meek, resigned character. She can be prickly, and tough, but she's also got great tenderness and great intelligence. I wanted her to really be the heroine of her own story. But I also wanted the love interest to be interesting and strong, and to bring the whole setting alive in an unusual and exciting way.
Kate: Oh, I love a bit of romance in a novel. Though isn’t that one of the reasons why we all love fairy tales so much? They’re so romantic!
Sophie: There’s more than ‘a bit of’ romance in Bitter Greens, Kate! It’s very steamy in parts.
Kate: Oh, I know. But the original tale told by Charlotte-Rose de la Force was really very sexy. Her heroine Persinette was seduced by the prince and fell pregnant to him, and their love affair was betrayed by the growing size of her belly. Later, when the witch cast her out, Persinette bore twins by herself in the wilderness. The Grimm Brothers changed the story so that any hint of sex was taken out, to make it more suitable for a childish readership.
Sophie: Charlotte-Rose de la Force was not the retiring type either, by your account.
Kate: Oh, no, she was banished from the court because of her scandalous love affairs. One time she even dressed up as a dancing bear to gain access to her much younger lover, who had been locked away by his parents. It was this anecdote which first sparked my interest in her.
Sophie: one thing that draws many of us to re-writing fairy tales is the chance to give a voice and a sense of spirit to these fairy tale heroines who have been made so passive by re-tellers such as the Grimm brothers.
Kate: Okay, Sophie, let’s talk about craft. What’s your favourite part of writing a novel? And least favourite part?
Sophie: My favourite part of writing a novel is the beginning--so exciting, like being in love, an intense yet floaty feeling! Everything seems possible. And I love the end, when everything comes together in a kind of perfect symphony (hopefully!) I also love getting to know my characters, and also, in this kind of novel, creating magic. My least favourite part is the middle--sometimes I have to push myself through it! What about you, Kate, what's your favourite and least favourite part?
Kate: I love everything about WRITING the novel, even the times in the middle when the way forward seems unclear and you’re afraid you’ve lost the way. The only part I’m not fond of is the proofreading at the end, when I’ve read every sentence so many times it loses its freshness. However, I know it’s important, and it’s my last chance to make the book as good as I possibly can, and so I knuckle down and do the job. And it’s worth it when you finally get to hold the beautiful finished book in your hands ... now that’s a truly wonderful feeling!
Sophie: Isn’t it?
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