Making the leap to fiction: An interview with Anna Celeste Burke
A: I met Anna Celeste Burke (who goes by Celeste, thank goodness) over on Marcia's blog,
where she caught my interest because, like me, she did a lot of
non-fiction writing (traditionally published, in her case) before
delving into the world of fiction (self-published). Her books A Dead Husband (on sale for 99 cents this week) and A Dead Sister
are cozy mysteries that owe a lot to Celeste's experience working in
the fields of mental health and substance abuse. "Some of the
themes that interest me in writing fiction have to do with pondering
whether human problems are psychological or existential…sickness or
evil, problems ‘determined’ by our circumstance or entered into by
choice," Celeste explained when I asked her how her previous career has
fed into her current fiction writing.
I thought you might all enjoy hearing about Celeste's experiences spanning the fiction and non-fiction divide, so I figured I'd follow Aimee's lead
and do an author interview. Thanks for dropping by,
Celeste! You mentioned in an email that part of the learning curve
involved in switching over to fiction included having to wage war
against "weasel words." I made some similar changes in my writing
style even before starting to write fiction since my non-fiction writing
is for the popular, rather than the academic, press, and it felt very
freeing to let go of conventions like writing in the third person.
What made you decide to branch out into fiction instead of popular
non-fiction when you chose to self-publish? Was it a marketing
decision or simply a book itching to be written?
C:
Writing fiction began as a way to break out of the confines of the
academic writing I was doing. The methods required of you in
science place such strictures on what you say and how you say it.
Progress, when it occurs, is incremental, and bounded. When I talk
about using weasel words, I'm talking about all the disclaimers and
conditions you put into every sentence to make sure you're not
overstating your case about a research finding or treatment
outcome. It is valuable work, but complex and tedious. Like
coloring within the lines. There's even something satisfying about
that, and I suppose that's why I chose that line of work. Most
often, I studied unbounded, out of control subjects like madness,
drunkenness, compulsions and addictions to drugs and other things.
So a cool medium in which to explore hot subjects makes sense. I
did consider writing in the self-help genre at some point. In
addition to research, I did lots and lots of teaching and training of
practitioners in helping professions. Some in the classroom, but
in community agencies as well. Mostly about how to evaluate the
outcomes of prevention and intervention practice. So figuring out
how to translate scientific knowledge into practice matters.
I was drawn to fiction
because it's so different. More use of visual imagery, a freer
flow of ideas, a faster pace, and more expansive use of language than
what I used to in academic writing. So, I think you could say I
had the itch to do a different kind of writing without regard to
marketing. Making stuff up is just more fun.
A: I
know what you mean about making stuff up being more fun. Writing
non-fiction is restful for me, while writing fiction is invigorating
(and sometimes heart-wrenching). I've also found that the two
different types of writing are very different from a marketing
standpoint. Readers seem to really enjoy short non-fiction (10,000
to 20,000 words, with photos) and I've found it's easy to get into the
mid-list range with non-fiction (selling 1 to 10 copies per day) and
stick there. With fiction you either sell a lot of copies or very
few since there's so much competition for the top-100 lists. Plus,
reviewers often complain if your book is shorter than about 50,000
words, even if you're only charging 99 cents. Have you had a
similar experience with the differences between marketing fiction and
non-fiction?
C: Marketing is a whole
new world to me. My previous publishing was done through
established outlets with very specific, targeted audiences. They
generally accept articles in that 10,000 to 20,000 word range, by the
way. They often have strict guidelines about that, and the format
in which the article must be written. That structure is good and
bad. Makes it clear what you need to do but chafes!
The
best 'marketing tool' you have is to pick the right journal
outlet. If you do that, and your article is accepted after going
through a peer-review process, it'll get read by the audience you're
seeking. The idea is to reach the community of scholars, doing
similar work in your field, so you can learn from each other and move
the field of study along. Many of those journals have small
numbers of subscribers so the 'targeted audience' may only be a few
hundred people. Some practice journals have larger audiences,
since both academics and practitioners may subscribe and read what you
publish. There's an anti-marketing ethos in academia, although
departments in universities that sponsor particular journals do so
because it brings them 'greater visibility'. Professors are also
encouraged to participate in conferences to gain visibility for their
work, often before it's published.
Novel-writing is still
pretty new to me, so I still have a lot to learn. Yes, you're
right that there's a threshold somewhere around 50 or 60,000 words
that's expected for novels. Even more ambiguous, but floating out
there, is some kind up upper limit at around 100-125,000 words. Authors
of young adult novels are expected to stick to the lower end of the
range, while most adult novels are expected to be in the 80-100,000 word
range. Writer's Digest posted a piece on this matter in 2012. There is the 'novella' category for shorter pieces, but I haven't explored that format, much, have you?
A: In
my experience, customer reviewers don't seem to understand what a
novella is, so it's a bit dicey to market a work with that
description. A lot of the authors I see simply use the term "short
story" even for longer works as a way of bypassing bad reviews from
confused customers.
It's
interesting to hear how small the audience is for many of the journals
you wrote for. I sometimes feel a bit daunted when I realize how
many thousands of people read my ebooks, and how diverse their wishes
and experiences are. At the same time, it's exciting to live in an
era when anyone can put an ebook up on Amazon and, if the book captures
the public imagination, the text can be downloaded hundreds or
thousands of times per month. Do you feel like Amazon (and, to a
lesser degree, other e-retailers) have changed the face of publishing in
the last decade? Would you have tried your hand at
fiction-writing if we still lived in an era when you had to query agents
and publishers in hopes of getting your work out into the world?
I
did go, for several years, to the Maui Writer's Conference and loved
it. Interesting courses on writing, meetings with authors, agents
and publishers. I got good feedback and encouragement to keep
writing. Several agents were interested enough to offer
representation. What they asked in return was more than I could
do! Things like register with the National Speakers Bureau, guest
appearances, and other promotional activities. I already had a 60+
hour per week job. Everybody knows the best advice to struggling
writers is "don't quit your day job."
Call me chicken, but the
traditional publishing industry has been challenging for decades.
Stories abound about well-regarded, best-sellers finding the light of
day only after amassing dozens of rejections slips. Even with
representation! Years ago, a traditionally published book had an
average shelf life of 3 days! And that was before the decimation
of independent book stores and the demise of Borders. I'm a 'bird
in the hand' kind of girl, I guess, so I put off fiction writing until
after retirement.
There's a lot to be said
for the self-publishing revolution. The future for books depends
on it. I feel nostalgic, at times, about the loss of book
stores. Libraries, too, that are struggling all across the
country. Still, it's miraculous when you realize, with ebooks, you
can carry an entire library on a reader, smartphone, tablet or
laptop. How cool is that? Those of us who love books, will
never be without one again--one or two or ten or one hundred or
more! No more getting caught waiting without something wonderful
to read, yay!
A: I
agree --- having so many ebooks at my fingertips makes it hard to do
anything except read some days. Thanks so much for taking the time
to share your experiences, Celeste. It's been a pleasure chatting
with you. I hope our readers enjoyed this as much as I did.
