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Julio
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Apr 05, 2014 11:24PM

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I could ask for no greater, or more disturbing, endorsement.

I know research for many isn't fun, but when it's historical research, that's almost as fun as then using what you find when writing.
Hey LeGutbucket, got bacon?

I'm not clued up enough to be that concerned with accuracy, but a modern seeming word or more, some modern phrasing, can really throw me from the story.
I've read books where I've not been able to set the decade because the facts don't seem to correlate. Electric points, tv, indoor plumbing, phones... Even modern novels can be dated with a VHS tape.

My modern brain finds that necessary pretense to be depressing as hell. (And, of course, there's still many parts of the world where this pretense is still very necessary. That's also depressing as hell.)
When I do read historical MM, I like the fantasy stuff like Megan Derr's Regency-esque series. I find it more believable. (Still haven't read the Magpie Lord, though it's sitting prettily on my Kindle.)
Anyway, I do have a history degree, which is fairly useless except for impressing strangers with weird facts & getting annoyed over obvious historical inaccuracy. Getting titles wrong is SHEER EFFING LAZINESS. Ahem.
My favorite MM historicals are The Gentleman and the Rogue (though I do wonder at Jem's easy acceptance of his homosexuality) and Dulce et Decorum Est. The latter is especially fantastic.

This is a very interesting question, because while I agree that some books do glide over difficulties in a fast and loose way, there's some fascinating research going on that suggests that homosexuality wasn't necessarily the total unmentionable we might believe. Which doesn't imply that life was a paradise of acceptance, more that it does seem that people sometimes just shrugged their shoulders and let their neighbours get on with it, certainly didn't seek to have them killed for it. It's impossible to tell, except that we can be sure that, as with all crimes, the prosecutions don't really reflect the number of people actually doing the thing.
That said, when the book ends with the entire country house full of family and friends including servants applauding the happy couple or whatever, I do have a powerful urge to ask, why did you bother writing it as historical?
You might try The Reluctant Berserker or Brothers of the Wild North Sea? They go so much further back into completely different times, and I found them both fascinating as well as wonderful romances.

Yeah, I was more referring my annoyance over the "entire country house" scenario, not a situation where someone was "reported" (if it even worked that way) & then hung for his crimes.
What I find depressing about it is that for most people, not all, the best you could expect as far as acceptance was "I'll accept that he's your roommate/flatmate or just a "very close friend" as long as we never have to discuss your homosexual leanings." (Still a popular attitude today.)
I didn't mean to say that they necessarily feared being killed for their orientation, but that even with close friends & family, there may have been a fear of exposure (public exposure) that required some sort of (however loose) pretense. Or maybe, instead of fear, an acknowledgement that a pretense was necessary if not for survival, but for the continuation of whatever type of relationship they may have had. (Yeah, that's more like what I meant to say. :))
(I want to mention Oscar Wilde, but I really don't know enough about him to use him as an example.)
On the other hand, I'm also annoyed (not out loud, just in my head) with people for thinking that what we may call "open-mindedness," or sex for the joy of sex, didn't develop until the 1960s or 70s. I feel like telling them to read I, Claudius (or see the movie) and then get back to me.
(And then I tell myself to stop being such a judgmental asshat.)







I recently read a book with a conversation like this on the first page:
"Jennifer, you heard your mother, girl. Sit your ass down before I sit it down for you."
Followed by narrative notes saying, "Awesome! Just fan-fucking-tastic. Just who in the hell did he think he was talking to her like that."
It was set in Jamestown, Virginia in 1625!
Sorry about the language, but if it hadn't been so amusingly, eye-catchingly wrong I never would have made it through the book. I feel hugely vindicated to know I'm not the only one's bothered by this sort of thing.

Back to historical inaccuracies, has anyone seen the Sherlock Holmes movie with Basil Rathbone -- can't remember the title -- that takes place in the late 19th c but features Nazis? That's the kind of anachronism that's done so boldly I think it's awesome. Of course, if it was in a book Id hate it.

To paraphrase: if you've got something bitter to say, come sit next to me.;)

Don't think so. In the 40s they were sticking Nazis in everything. Everbody enjoyed watching Nazis gettin' whooped.

Re Alan Turing, take a look at what Aldous Mercer did with hisThe Prince and the Program. No historical accuracy necessary in this as it is a fantasy.

ditto

Yeah, I've heard a lot of good things about the author & the book (I do have his Royce Ree Omnibus (The Emperor's New Clothes), Volume 1). Thanks for the rec!

Please do read Royce, I loved it, it's different, good, intelligent, funny ........ (better stop Sofia)

A couple of recent spottings of using the word before its time: boondoggle during Richard I's crusade and the peanut gallery in a regency. I'm more forgiving with books published pre-internet, but these days there's no excuse. Like the Victorian era book that had her characters rummaging through a box of artifacts marked Czar Nicholas II.



I could not manage Long John either, but I love The Spanish Bride (don't know how many times I read this) and read the last of the Alistair Trilogy as well An Infamous Army(read once only)

Not OKhomo, methinks historically accurate, includes some interesting details of life of that time that are no longer in use.

Oh, right, An Infamous Army. I think my problem with that book was that I really didn't like Lady Barbra. She was very Scarlett O'Hara. But I know other readers who really respect her historical accuracy re Waterloo.
Jerry wrote: "May I be so bold as to recommend Restraint?
Not OKhomo, methinks historically accurate, includes some interesting details of life of that time that are no longer in use."
Okhomo is funny. And Restraint looks good.


Apparently in her later books Heyer would make up just one phrase of her own so she could identify who was plagiarising her rather than doing their own research. Like a barium meal. We used to do that when I worked in travel guides: other publishers were constantly, ah, publishing text with a strong resemblance to our justly famous art and architecture sections, so the authors would put in made-up quotes from non-existent poets and see who quoted them. Happy days.

Simon the Coldheart I only got a chapter in I'm afraid. I also never managed Royal Escape.

Yes, all those books mentioned are the ones I just couldn't get through. I think I managed Simon the Coldheart though. And Royal Escape just pissed me off because the 1970s cover I have CLEARLY INFERS A ROMANCE. Please excuse my yelling. :)
Heyer's one of the few authors I own entirely in paperback. I love those cheesy covers from the 1960s & 70s. Like this.
KJ -- I've never heard that about Heyer. I wonder what she'd think about all the Regency romance authors that are still popular today. Like Mary Balogh & Carla Kelly... or Barbara Cartland, though they were publishing at the same time, I think.

Tamara Allen writes good m/m historicals that give a feel for times.
Mergan Derr's regency are all alternative reality where m/m relations are aceptable and the norm, I understand the reasoning of wanting fiction to be about good things not the uglyness of prosecution, but I don't consider them historical fiction. Some are cute stories though.

Agreed, they are au & shouldn't be taken as examples of historical accuracy. But I like that they give me a little taste of the Regency era.

I haven't read this book - Heart To Hart - but I think it's interesting that it's described on Amazon as "Nostalgic Contemporary" (takes place in Ireland in the 1920s.) Which I think means some attitudes are "softened" maybe? Like the author/publisher is using that tag to warn readers not to read it if they're looking for strict historical accuracy?

Was it supposed to be Steampunk? Otherwise - Huh?
Steampunk gives leyway for merging period details with modern/creative technologies.
Regency with telephones sounds bad. I kind of want to read it! Shows modern attitudes too. In the 'good old days' when I was little, mobile phones were a novelty not a necessity, now it seems phones get everywhere, even regency period ;)


You would have to bin a lot of plot twists :D

I have heard tell of a m/m historical romance where two men in the 1800s fall in love and get married. Openly. In a church. I've seen it mocked, and I'm sure it's every bit as bad as people say it is. But I think that somewhere in the world, there are at least a few writers who could write a story like that and the hell of it is that in their hands it'd be GOOD. I'd know it wasn't realistic, of course, but in the moment I could buy into it. I think. And if that's the story a writer's moved to tell, then I think they should take their shot, even if generally it will end up being mockable.
All romance novels ARE fantasy to me - contemporary, historical, whatever, I'm not in it for the realism - which is probably why I find it easy (...ish) to forgive mistakes as long as I love the story. (And I do have to LOVE it. Otherwise, I will probably get knocked out of the story and I might even make fun of it after and those are the chances an author takes when deciding their medieval heroes should microwave their dinner. Or whatever liberties they've decided to take.) And I especially will accept inaccuracy if it will get the characters to a HEA I can believe in. Oh, Lord, yes, will I ever.
*slinks out before she gets pelted with rotten produce*

Right now I'm listening to The Back Passage. It's takes place in the 1920s but I couldn't care less about historical inaccuracies -- it's erotica (or erotica ++ -- there is a ton of sex).