The Golden Age – An Interview with Gerard Jones

In his 2004 Eisner Award-winning book MEN OF TOMORROW: GEEKS, GANGSTERS AND THE BIRTH OF THE COMIC BOOK, author and comics writer Gerard Jones (GREEN LANTERN, THE SHADOW, BATMAN, PRIME, ULTRAFORCE and numerous others) deftly told the stories of the early comics creators, the writers and artists who were in the trenches of the dawn of the medium and, in a collision of shady business deals, inspiring idealism and ink, created the most iconic characters of the past century.  At once a history and a cautionary tale, MEN OF TOMORROW is a defining addition to the comics history lexicon. I’m honored to present a brief interview with Gerard Jones, in which we talk about Siegel and Shuster, Bill Finger, the uncertain circumstances behind the creation of Wonder Woman and a brief mid-90s fanboy sidetrack into “whatever happened with your GREEN LANTERN run?”

 

In MEN OF TOMORROW, you say, in reference to the success of Superman, that “the great missing piece of archaeology in kids culture is what the kids themselves were saying.”  If you had to take an educated guess, what do you think happened to take Superman from last-minute fill-in to cultural phenomenon in the space of less than a year? What was it about him that appealed to kids, or to adults, that touched a nerve?

For one thing, Superman was new. There had never been anything quite like him. That alone can be intensely exciting to a kid. He came with very little explanation and didn’t fit any genre expectations, so kids got to figure him out on their own and met with constant surprises. I’m sure he was fun to talk about and to argue about–even about whether he was a completely good guy or not. He also arrived in a venue that was largely relegated to kids, unlike the newspaper comic strips–there was no question that he was *theirs*, he wasn’t something they were sharing with their parents or older siblings. Finally, he was just so simple, so raw–as close to little kid fantasies as anything they’d seen in print.

Regarding Marston and his, for the time, amazing deal with the creation of Wonder Woman, you say that “early comics publishers would give away a lot if they were pushed.” But, the classic, cautionary image of the early days of comics is of Siegel and Shuster and the $130 check for Superman. First, can you describe the deal that Marston worked out with Gaines, and then comment on business practices of the early publishers and the business acumen of early comics creators? For example, a contrast between Siegel and Shuster and say, Will Eisner?

There are some mysteries about the creation of Wonder Woman, and maybe always will be–but I’m pretty well convinced that Marston and Gaines came up with the character together, and that whole “Marston wrote a column for Family Circle on his own and Gaines saw it and contacted him” is made up. So Marston was in a very good position to make sure that Gaines paid him well, gave him a lot of creative control, couldn’t fire him, and either had to keep the character in print or had to give it back. It’s also impressive that he made the deal applicable to his heirs and not just himself.

As for the different approaches–there were guys who saw it as a business and learned to work the business, like Marston and Eisner and all the publishers, and there were guys who just wanted to tell stories and looked at comics as a way to get their work out there, like Siegel and Shuster. They didn’t put the time or thought into figuring out how things worked, and they got run over. I think it’s largely a personality issue–some very creative people don’t like to have to learn how reality works, which can be both a gift and a curse.

What leads you to believe that Gaines and Marston collaborated in the creation of Wonder Woman? 

First, Marston was a hustler. Between being fired from Tufts and selling Wonder Woman (and to an extent while he was still at Tufts), he devoted his entire career to an effort to turn his modest accomplishments into money, usually rewriting his own past and resumé, often in cahoots with movie studio publicity departments, ad agencies, and other less than respectable clients. So any time Marston pulled something off, you almost have to look for the maneuvering behind the scenes.

Second, in the FAMILY CIRCLE article where he proclaims the need for a super-heroine, he (if I remember right) actually names M. C. Gaines and praises him as one publisher with higher standards than the rest. There was absolutely no legitimate reason for anyone to name M. C. Gaines in a context like that. For one thing, although Gaines was well-known in the business, it’s unlikely that any outsider observer would even have been aware of him. Maybe someone would have noticed ALL-AMERICAN COMICS, but not Gaines as a person. And even if they had noticed him, what possible reason would they have to say he did more tasteful work than anyone else? His comics were just inferior imitations of DC. Who’s going to look at a copy of ALL-AMERICAN COMICS from 1940 and say, “This is the publisher who’s going to lift the standards of the medium”?

So it makes no sense–unless we assume that Marston already had a reason to promote Gaines. And why else would he promote Gaines specifically in the context of “the world needs a female equivalent to Superman” unless they were already going down exactly that path?

You called Bill Finger “the one real writer in the business” in MEN OF TOMORROW. With the current surge for recognition of his incalculable contributions to the Batman mythos, what do you see as his greatest contribution? What did he bring to the early Batman stories that has made the character endure for 75 years?

First, Finger wrote complete stories in a way that hardly anyone else in the early superhero days did–that is, he structured them with foreshadowings and twists and all the other stuff of real stories rather than just running from start to finish in a straight line. That immediately made Batman seem like the “smart” superhero comic. Then he followed that up by having Batman himself be convincingly smart–putting him in the detective tradition, not just the strong-man tradition. Which, even though he didn’t really do much with characterization in those early days, enabled Batman to seem like a more complete human being. Overall, he balanced the goofy fantasy of costumed superheroes with almost plausible human stories that brought a new dimension to comics.

(How) has fandom evolved since Gernsbach’s social network of “scientifiction” fans in the pages of AMAZING STORIES versus the message boards and social networks of today? Has discussion between fans always been a cornerstone of comics and kid culture? 

Yes–fandoms have always been based on long-distance discussions. It happens a lot faster now, which is, overall, probably better for a vital subculture. Although I have to say, taking it more slowly–having to boil your thoughts down for a letter and then having time to think about what you’re said–can make for a more rewarding conversation that you’re likely to get from the free-for-all of the internet. There are no trolls in a magazine letter column, if nothing else.

What can modern-day comics learn from the Golden Age of comics? What lessons have been forgotten?

I think a little more of that fast, wild, try-anything spirit of the early days would be welcome. When art forms become too sophisticated and self-serious, they can lose something.

As a fan of your run on GREEN LANTERN, I have to ask this from a fan’s perspective: what were your plans for Hal Jordan after #46? Was that your intended last issue, or was your run cut short?

I had written through issue 48 and had plots in for 49 and 50. My basic idea, if I remember correctly, was that the Guardians we saw on Oa would turn out to be impostors and Hal would go “rogue” in order to oppose them. Then, at some point, he’d find the real Guardians and lead them in retaking the universe. Or something like that. The editors were looking for more of a “reboot,” so went with a new creative team and new GL.

What are you working on now?

I’m finishing up a book called THE UNDRESSING OF AMERICA, about the origins of our “culture wars” over sex and privacy in the 19th Century, and I’m starting one, in collaboration with Nicky Wheeler-Nicholson, about her grandfather, Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson, who founded DC Comics.

Many thanks to Gerard for the interview and insight. To find out more about his work, you can connect with him at his blog, http://gerardjones.blogspot.com or on Facebook.