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[deleted user]
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Sep 23, 2013 01:10PM
You go. Amen to that!
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first- thank you for expressing what we as readers have been feeling regarding this new policy.second- my respect for you hasn't increased; it couldn't as I already have such high regard for you as a person and artist, there really isn't anywhere to go :D
Great post - I hope it gets the credit it deserves. Unfortunately, Amazon (and GR in association) has shown time and time again how much they love to ignore valid critism.
Thank you for writing this. You've managed to concisely say why there ought to be a reader's site that is unbiased and open to readers to say what they want. Very well done!
This could not have been expressed more perfectly. Yes as someone has already posted I tip my hat to you and I join in their standing ovation. If there is any justice in the world goodreads will listen, if not then perhaps they too will go the way of the dinosaur. I guess we all need to hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
My husband calls my book selection process "reading social activism." One of the things that helps me choose is (or used to be,) seeing how authors interact in reader spaces. Bad behavior = no sale for you. More than that though, I appreciate reviews that comment on author behavior and beliefs in other spaces, such as racism, misogyny, unwanted sexual advances at professional events (boob-grabbers, butt-pinchers, propositioners and serial creepers, etc.) I want to know before I read, because these things are relevant to my reading experience, not some tangential factoids.
A review that tells me gender, race/nationality, political and/or social views, activism, and so on, is highly relevant, and I actively seek out voices that contribute diversity and inclusion to my choices. GR used to be the place I could count on to help me locate that information.
I would like Goodreads to explain to me how it shouldn't have bearing on my decision-making if (frex) an author donates money to anti-equality lobbyists, and why that information does not belong on an individual's review of a part of that author's body of work.
My friends and I talk about books, in person and in online spaces. We follow each other's reviews, we share recommendations. If on occasion, I want to make some commentary under my own name, on a book that everybody is reading, regarding why I refuse to read it related to EITHER problematic themes within the book, OR problematic behavior by the author, then HOW IS THIS IRRELEVANT TO THE DISCUSSION?
Here's a real, true personal experience from a year or so past:
I attended an author event by a BIG NAME AUTHOR with a very large catalog. He spent nearly the entire event bragging about his output, telling us his plans for future 12-18 book series, and telling us what was wrong with stories by other big name authors, how they screwed up their story, and how he was going to rewrite the series to fix everything. I can't recall a single complimentary thing he said about another author, his entire tone was sneering and authoritarian, I found it very distasteful. I swore to never read one of his books, although I had several in my shelves, both on GR, and on my physical dtb shelves.
My personal decision regarding this event that I personally witnessed, was to just remove all of his books from my GR shelves, and to take the few hard copies I owned from my tbr pile and give them to Goodwill, because he wasn't worth my valuable time. However, I would like to know why, if I had chosen to update a TBR on GR to a DNR with an explanation and account of his appalling arrogance, that this wouldn't have anything to do with reading and reviewing? And yet, under the new TOS, my experience at a book event, for a particular book, with this author, is now somehow off-topic.
I'm so cranky about this I'm blithering.
Thank you to everyone who's commented and liked this. ♥@Stacey: "Reading social activism" - LOVE THIS. Hell to the yes.
It's going to be a HUGE issue when the Ender's Game movie comes out in November and people check out the book. And I'm incredibly pissed that GR is going to censor any discussion of OSC's raging homophobia and general crackpottery.
The dude is seriously noxious:
http://skipendersgame.com/
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/201...
Since when is GoodReads supposed to be a community? I know, I know, that's an incredibly harsh way of putting it, but would you consider FaceBook a community? Would you say that Twitter is one big family? Of course not - just like GoodReads, they're social networks. And when running a social network, your first priority has to be deleting objectionable content. Giving people warning would be nice, but if they feel like it's important for the content to be deleted now, they have every right to delete it. After all, it's their website. They control anything that people post, and one should go into any social network aware of this. As a result, stuff will be unfairly taken down anywhere. Are they out of line for some of what they deleted? Probably. I agree with most of what you said about the content changes, although I don't think it's nearly as big a deal as all that. But GR doesn't have to say shit to it's users before deleting content it thinks is a violation of its rules. And really, saying that they're 'slapping duct tape over people's mouths' is going too far with it, in my opinion. It's not like they're stopping people from expressing opinions, just stopping them from bullying (for the most part - the Mien Kampf thing was indeed ridiculous.)
And never mind how we go about reviewing autobiographies of sub-perfect people under this new policy...
Mike wrote: "Since when is GoodReads supposed to be a community? I know, I know, that's an incredibly harsh way of putting it, but would you consider FaceBook a community? Would you say that Twitter is one bi..."You're being unnecessarily literal here. Of course Goodreads "can" do anything they want. They can delete the entire site tomorrow if they desire.
We're discussing this with the assumption that GR wants to retain their userbase and minimize abuse issues.
As for "stopping them from bullying," that is the entire point of my post: shelving an author as a BBA or discussing that author's public RL activities is not "bullying."
Perfectly said! I am totally with you - I am first and foremost a reader and while I do not support bullying and needless personal attacks, the deletion of first negative, and now several "too positive" reviews deeply worries me. I am afraid that, once the door has been opened to such deletions, there is no stopping the damage being done. Especially since there was no discussion, no warning, and there is still a lack of clarity as to what becomes "deletable".And what about some sort of "checks and balances"? Some sort of oversight over what gets deleted? A way to appeal a decision?
Beyond that, the example of Hitler as an author of "Mein Kampf" is what went through my head - how can you not see the author's persona and beliefs as part of the evaluation of his "work"????? This case may be extreme, but it makes the point very well.
Hi again, Mike. As someone who was bullied every day for a long time, I take issue with the word "bullying" being used to describe calling out authors for their own bad behaviour and/or stating your reason for not reading a book as being due to a dislike of the author. I think goodreads is stopping people from expressing their opinions on books, this is an interesting post on the matter: http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/3...
Leah: I loved every word of your post, and thank you for taking the time to write it.The thing that puzzles me about GR's deletion of shelves mentioning "author behavior" is that typically, these shelves reflect PUBLIC behavior. Perhaps they are actions that the author now regrets, but nevertheless, these actions were put out for the world to observe. I don't recall ever seeing a shelf like "Picks His Nose In His Car" or "She Is Mean To Her Husband At Home."
But an author who gets in Twitter arguments with reviewers, for example, made the decision to share that with the world. Why do we, as reviewers, have to ignore and hide that author's behavior?
One of Mike's recent comments: "I honestly feel a little sorry for Klein. Based on my interactions with her, she seems like a nice person who deserves to be respected as an author. But if she's going to do that, she needs badly to edit her books better than this. Because quite frankly, this is an absolute mess." Is your comment above MEANT to be ironic, Mike?
Leah, I LOVE your post! You are SPOT-ON, you've nailed how I (and most of GR, I think) feel about their poor decision. Thank you so very, very much!!
I don't think anyone could have said it better. I'm going to look for your books right now because if they're anywhere near as awesomely well written as this post, they should be great reading!































not just good but GREAT post. Well said




