When doppelgangers diverge
I have met only a small handful of people on the internet so far who are so ridiculously like me I kind of think we might be a bunch of doppelgangers. I always feel happy about this, though, because as I'm sure I've mentioned before, I've felt alienated for most of my life.
Always the kid who did the things you were Supposed To Do while everyone else flagrantly disregarded all the rules like we later learn we're Expected To Do.
So even though I was raised in Midwest middle class America, probably downright wholesome compared to a lot of peoples' childhoods, I've always felt like I didn't belong.
But then, when you're the kid that says no to drinking, smoking, drugs, partying; when you're the girl who DOESN'T want to date a new boy every week in high school because you don't yet realize you're gay; when you were raised without religion but surrounded by Christians and later realize you feel more Pagan than anything; when you become vegetarian at 14, years before it's the "in" thing to do and years before you can even find vegetarian restaurants or fake meat options in the grocery store; and when you're the kid whose greatest punishment when young was apparently not being allowed to go to the library-- yeah, you're kind of a freak of nature even in Midwest middle class America, and you're always going to feel like there's something really fucking fucked up about you that will never properly be fixed.
What I've been thinking about lately is the way we develop preferences as people, and how those play out so subjectively when looking at the same thing.
One of the people I love to talk to about books the most is one of the very few doppelgangers I know. She and I are on the same wavelength about so many things it's kind of ridiculous. For the most part, we agree about the things we don't like in writing/books. We agree in theory about the things we like to see.
And yet, when we bring up specific examples, we read them completely opposite of each other.
My current favorite two stories she doesn't like at all. One of them she hated the MC and read the exact opposite into his intentions than I did. In the other, she couldn't make herself care about any of the characters because she felt that they were all too damaged. Yet, her favorite series is one I didn't like. I spent about 90% of the series extremely frustrated and if I'd had to describe the series in two words it would be "missed opportunities." And yet she loves that series.
Interestingly, when we discuss the specifics of what we did/didn't like, for the most part the other person can say, "yes, I can see where that part was" but their answer is "but it didn't matter to me because ___" while the other's is "and this is the reason the story is dead to me."
How is it that we as people can be so in line on everything but then when looking at the same source material, interpret it exactly opposite of each other?
It's fascinating to me. And sometimes a bit saddening, because after pretty much never feeling like I belong in my peer group my whole life, whenever I find someone I do understand on a deeper level I have this automatic expectation that we'll agree on everything. That finally there will be someone who sees the world the same way I do. And when that theory is proven wrong, there's a tiny bit of kickback. A feeling like once more, somewhere along the way I veered off course from everyone else and maybe one of these days I should just sit the fuck down and stop trying.
Because seriously, how can I still not belong even at 30?
Yet, the other side of that double edged sword is that I've always felt like it was a good thing to not be mainstream about everything. So I feel no pressure to fit in because I don't want to have to be someone I'm not, but the simple act of always being different is itself something that wears at a person over time.
There isn't an answer to that conundrum so I'm not really searching for one anymore. I never felt the need to fit into peer pressure even when I was 7 or 17 and I'm certainly not going to start now. I would support the hell out of people being themselves, whether or not it's mainstream, so it's not like mainstream is bad. It's mainstream for a reason. Most people belong there and are happy there and are able to be who they really want to be there, and that's incredibly important.
It's just apparently very rarely Me. And apparently that fact will continue to make itself evident throughout my life.
Still, today I was thinking about these viewpoints. I was thinking about the way we rate stories, the way we review them, the way everything we do is filtered by the lenses of our childhoods and opinions and beliefs.
There's no such thing as a 'perfect story.' Everyone is going to see it from a different angle, and that will be the facet of the diamond that reflects their impression. Was it brilliant or dull, was it sharp or soft, was it deep or superficial, was it long or short? Was it meaningful or was the meaning lost in that scant space between reality and perception?
All we can really do is calibrate our views to others' when we need it. All we can do is try to shift our stance a step to the left or right to see the world for that one moment in the eyes of a friend, and know whether or not they view the world the same as us.
And when you really think about it, it's beautiful that we all see it a little bit different from each other, because in that way we can stitch the stories together and bring out all the contours of light and shadow. We can see it from more than our one, limited side for the few seconds it takes to believe that everyone else's view is just as important as our own.
Always the kid who did the things you were Supposed To Do while everyone else flagrantly disregarded all the rules like we later learn we're Expected To Do.
So even though I was raised in Midwest middle class America, probably downright wholesome compared to a lot of peoples' childhoods, I've always felt like I didn't belong.
But then, when you're the kid that says no to drinking, smoking, drugs, partying; when you're the girl who DOESN'T want to date a new boy every week in high school because you don't yet realize you're gay; when you were raised without religion but surrounded by Christians and later realize you feel more Pagan than anything; when you become vegetarian at 14, years before it's the "in" thing to do and years before you can even find vegetarian restaurants or fake meat options in the grocery store; and when you're the kid whose greatest punishment when young was apparently not being allowed to go to the library-- yeah, you're kind of a freak of nature even in Midwest middle class America, and you're always going to feel like there's something really fucking fucked up about you that will never properly be fixed.
What I've been thinking about lately is the way we develop preferences as people, and how those play out so subjectively when looking at the same thing.
One of the people I love to talk to about books the most is one of the very few doppelgangers I know. She and I are on the same wavelength about so many things it's kind of ridiculous. For the most part, we agree about the things we don't like in writing/books. We agree in theory about the things we like to see.
And yet, when we bring up specific examples, we read them completely opposite of each other.
My current favorite two stories she doesn't like at all. One of them she hated the MC and read the exact opposite into his intentions than I did. In the other, she couldn't make herself care about any of the characters because she felt that they were all too damaged. Yet, her favorite series is one I didn't like. I spent about 90% of the series extremely frustrated and if I'd had to describe the series in two words it would be "missed opportunities." And yet she loves that series.
Interestingly, when we discuss the specifics of what we did/didn't like, for the most part the other person can say, "yes, I can see where that part was" but their answer is "but it didn't matter to me because ___" while the other's is "and this is the reason the story is dead to me."
How is it that we as people can be so in line on everything but then when looking at the same source material, interpret it exactly opposite of each other?
It's fascinating to me. And sometimes a bit saddening, because after pretty much never feeling like I belong in my peer group my whole life, whenever I find someone I do understand on a deeper level I have this automatic expectation that we'll agree on everything. That finally there will be someone who sees the world the same way I do. And when that theory is proven wrong, there's a tiny bit of kickback. A feeling like once more, somewhere along the way I veered off course from everyone else and maybe one of these days I should just sit the fuck down and stop trying.
Because seriously, how can I still not belong even at 30?
Yet, the other side of that double edged sword is that I've always felt like it was a good thing to not be mainstream about everything. So I feel no pressure to fit in because I don't want to have to be someone I'm not, but the simple act of always being different is itself something that wears at a person over time.
There isn't an answer to that conundrum so I'm not really searching for one anymore. I never felt the need to fit into peer pressure even when I was 7 or 17 and I'm certainly not going to start now. I would support the hell out of people being themselves, whether or not it's mainstream, so it's not like mainstream is bad. It's mainstream for a reason. Most people belong there and are happy there and are able to be who they really want to be there, and that's incredibly important.
It's just apparently very rarely Me. And apparently that fact will continue to make itself evident throughout my life.
Still, today I was thinking about these viewpoints. I was thinking about the way we rate stories, the way we review them, the way everything we do is filtered by the lenses of our childhoods and opinions and beliefs.
There's no such thing as a 'perfect story.' Everyone is going to see it from a different angle, and that will be the facet of the diamond that reflects their impression. Was it brilliant or dull, was it sharp or soft, was it deep or superficial, was it long or short? Was it meaningful or was the meaning lost in that scant space between reality and perception?
All we can really do is calibrate our views to others' when we need it. All we can do is try to shift our stance a step to the left or right to see the world for that one moment in the eyes of a friend, and know whether or not they view the world the same as us.
And when you really think about it, it's beautiful that we all see it a little bit different from each other, because in that way we can stitch the stories together and bring out all the contours of light and shadow. We can see it from more than our one, limited side for the few seconds it takes to believe that everyone else's view is just as important as our own.
date
newest »
newest »
Hi V! It's not strange at all :) Thanks for commenting!When I was younger, I believed in this illusion of greatest.
You know, I think I did too. I think I always believed there was something to aspire to, and within that I also became a perfectionist. That perfectionist streak has been a huge disservice to me at times, even sort of damaging, but at other times it's been helpful. Still, it's an impossible battle. As you said, it's all a matter of perspective and degrees. Realizing that and coming to grips with that has helped me a lot in ways. It's helped me be less damaging to myself in my thought process but it's probably always going to be an uphill battle to maintain that equilibrium because when you are so committed to a certain idea for so long, it's hard to remove that from your thought process entirely.
Andrew Solomon talked about the fact that when you're of a different sexual identity, or not heterosexual, you feel different from everyone else at a very young age. But it wasn't just sexuality. My parents never raised me with a set of religious beliefs and I was surrounded by some rather devoutly religious kids. Instead of seeming normal, it all seemed very strange to me. I was constantly confused by my peers.
I've only just started to wonder how much of the time I spent feeling different was because I'm gay and how much wasn't. When I was young, I had no idea I was gay. Although it's hilarious in retrospect because one of my earliest memories is being on the elementary school playground, and I can't at all remember what precipitated it but I do distinctly recall going up to one of the recess teachers and saying, "What's a lesbian?" after someone must have called me that. I remember my teacher sputtering, and I don't remember what they said, but I remember getting the impression it was something bad and I should have been offended by being called one.
Religion... it's such a strange subject. The people who grew up on it sometimes can't really disengage from the concept of the religion because it's so closely tied into their sense of home or self or childhood or identity. It might be integral to their sense of community as well. But when you're like us, raised without religion, I just find the whole concept of organized religion to be kind of bizarre and at times not good at all for the person in question.
There's a difference with spirituality and religiousness, I believe, and the people who are spiritual seem to be genuinely uplifted by whatever religion they follow, and it seems to honestly bring them some sense of peace. But then there are all these people who seem to cling to the ideas of their religion more out of desperation or routine than anything, and they are the ones who are much more difficult to discuss the topic with because they jump immediately into defensiveness or ignorance as their strategy to cope. I feel sad for them and to me, objectively, it all seems kind of unhealthy.
But what really gets me are the people who don't have any concept that their religion is not the be all and end all to everything. They don't even realize there is a world outside the viewpoints they had pressed upon them since childhood. They'll slide these comments into everyday conversation like it's totally normal, like everyone should just nod and totally get it. As ubiquitous as the concept of time. And they also don't realize that doing things like sending greeting card talking about God and such to someone who is not religious or of their religion might be offensive at the worst and kind of uncomfortable or awkward or not welcome in the least.
It would probably be way too boring of a story but essentially my parents raised my siblings and I without religion because one side of my family is full of extremely devout Seventh Day Adventists and the other side is full of devout Catholics, and both my grandmothers were extremely devout. My mom never questioned anything growing up until she was about 50 and then she had a crisis when she started questioning things and realized things didn't line up, and she felt she had been lied to. My dad hated organized religion from the start because he was sent into all these religious boarding schools and such and no one appreciated it when he questioned things.
I have only met one other person (aside from you now :)) who was specifically raised without religion, and interestingly, while I believe it was the greatest thing my parents did for me growing up because it let me form my own opinions, she felt her parents did her a huge disservice because she thought she missed out on some larger sense of community and so she blamed them for this. When she ended up marrying a Jewish man, she said she couldn't wait to convert and was definitely going to raise her kids in the religion from the start.
And I'm always fascinated to find someone who is on the same vein as I am because it's a moment of, "finally, someone with a different view-point on the same subject."
That's a cool way to look at it :) Much more positive than "Goddamnit, why am I always such a freak?" lol I do personally really like discussing things with people, though, and identifying where we shifted our opinions on things because it helps me understand my friends even more as people.
I still have difficulty relating to people my age and some of this has to do with the fact that I majored in English. When people talk to me about books, we're on different strands of conversations. And I often think to myself, "You're 27. Get your act together and start making some friends."
It can definitely be frustrating not being able to connect with people of your own age. In thinking on it, I really only have a few friends irl who are my own age. Most of the people I get along with best outside of friends I've had since high school and college are people who are usually much older than me, and sometimes younger. But I've always connected more with people who were older than me than I have those younger. Even as a kid I didn't like other kids, and always wanted to sit at the adult table. That hasn't really changed even with decades passing.
But you know, some people just don't form a lot of strong friendships on a large scale. There are very few people I interact with on my free time because, like you, I've always found it a bit difficult to relate to people my age. I mean, I can talk superficial topics with anyone, but actually discussing anything of import? There's a reason I really only interact with two friends from college and one friend from high school on any sort of regular basis. I may like people conceptually but consistently being on the same wavelength has been much more difficult to achieve in general throughout my life. And I've never been the sort of person to go places just to say I was there.
I guess I want everything to be meaningful in some manner. Being around someone I truly like or care about as a person makes it meaningful to me, but I've never been good at being able to figure out how to bridge the gap between acquaintance at school/work and friend to hang out with at home.
Eh, that ended up being really rambly. Sorry :(
Wow, most of that can describe me pretty well. I have a really hard time relating to people my age. Going partying? Not my thing. Boyfriends? No thank you. Big crowd of friends? Nope. I only have 1 friend that I would actually hang out with outside of the University, and that's more than enough for me. Our views on certain things still differ, but I have always appreciated the different points of views that one 'thing' can have.
I'd much rather, as you put it, sit at the adult table and listen in to their conversation, most likely learning something new and asking questions till we exhaust which ever topic they are currently talking about. It's much more fulfilling to me than most of the conversations people my age are having. Not that I don't join those occasionally, but I much rather prefer the adult one.
I'm also a huge perfectionist. You are so right, it's a major struggle to keep that balance. To keep reminding yourself that there is no actual perfect, and that just maybe, what you did is actually just right for you. And being different does wear you down. I don't actually mind it, but it just really hits home every so often and it's just tiring sometimes to think about, but I always come to the same conclusion. If I weren't different, I wouldn't be ME, and there is nothing better than just being plain me :)
And being different does wear you down. I don't actually mind it, but it just really hits home every so often and it's just tiring sometimes to think about, but I always come to the same conclusion. If I weren't different, I wouldn't be ME, and there is nothing better than just being plain me :) Exactly this! Most of the time it doesn't bother me at all, despite how morose I probably sounded in the original post lol I've always felt like it's more important to be myself than to try to be someone others want (if that makes sense) so when I weigh the idea of not feeling worn down now and then to the idea of trying to be someone I'm not, I'll always choose feeling worn down at times.
Still, it always makes me really happy to learn I'm not alone. So I'm really glad you and V both commented because it made me feel like, "Yaay! Kindred spirits! *fist bump*" haha
Also, I was really lucky in college. I ran across a person in line on my first day there who had a mutual dorky love for Gundam Wing, and through her I met other people on her floor. We ended up being 6 friends who were quite different in a lot of ways but had just enough in common that we were all on the same wavelength overall, and even called ourselves the hive mind. That was a really unusual time period for me because aside from that I've always sort of been closest to 1-3 people at most at a time. But I do think early twenties is one of the most disorienting times for being different from the norm because that's where it's most in your face that people are expecting you to be big drinkers, partying it up and going out with others.
I went through college sticking to my guns and I don't regret that at all. I really enjoyed college without needing to do things I didn't want to do. So if you do continue feeling the way you do throughout university, know you aren't alone in it-- I went through the same thing-- and it worked out fine for me, even if at times it was aggravating.
It does get a bit easier as you get older because people become less obsessed with the idea that everyone should be into those things when you start getting into late twenties. I guess people assume you did all that when you were a teenager and in college so they put less implicit emphasis on the idea that you should obviously Just Get It when they talk about being involved in these things and expect you to respond with stories of your own or become involved with it at that moment. There's still an expectation that people would drink to relax, like in happy hour, but it's been less socially unacceptable to say no. I get the odd look now and then but it's not a huge deal.
I don't know if that helps or not but that's been my experience, at least.
Yes *fist bump*! Lol.Ah yes, the social drinking. University here operates differently from the US. We don't have dorms and such, so it's a lot more laid back than I imagine it would have been if I was in the states or most of anywhere else for that matter.
There is still the usual partying and peer pressure to just drink but it's the thing to do at the time (which I have honestly never really understood that reasoning, but what ever xD), but since my class is incredibly small it makes it much easier for me all around. It was tough when I first started but once I got settled down and got know everyone else more or less it was much easier to navigate.
I actually get more strange looks with the no boyfriend (or girlfriend for that matter) part than the no drinking ha! I don't know why it's such a hard concept for people to grasp. They all seem to expect that by 23 you are supposed to have some kind of marrying prospect at the least and not having one is just crazy talk, specially when I'm so completely unconcerned with the notion. Expectations...
It does help, always good to know things do get better eventually :)
Ornella (Nyx) wrote: "I actually get more strange looks with the no boyfriend (or girlfriend for that matter) part than the no drinking ha! I don't know why it's such a hard concept for people to grasp. They all seem to expect that by 23 you are supposed to have some kind of marrying prospect at the least and not having one is just crazy talk, specially when I'm so completely unconcerned with the notion. Expectations..."lol I know what you mean. That hasn't changed a ton for me personally unfortunately haha That's the first question out of everyone's mouth when they haven't seen me for a while. "Anything new? Are you seeing anyone?" It's awkward since I'm not out to most people who ask this (namely, extended family) so they also tend to specify boyfriend but whatever.
I don't know why people think it's 1) imperative to have some sort of Significant Other and 2) any of their business whether or not a person DOES have one. Jesus. We can exist quite well on our own, thank you. We don't need to be dependent on another human being every day of our lives.
Ais wrote: "I don't know why people think it's 1) imperative to have some sort of Significant Other and 2) any of their business whether or not a person DOES have one. Jesus. We can exist quite well on our own, thank you. We don't need to be dependent on another human being every day of our lives. "THIS! Exactly! My god. I'm perfectly happy by myself thank you very much. If a Significant other appears, great, if not, great too. It's not NEEDED.
People are so damn nosy. Family gatherings here are a gossip fest. The only thing they talk about is who is marrying who, someone getting married or divorced or having kids, who did what with whom. It's beyond ridiculous. Hence why I attend few and far between xD
lol I guess people feel like they have to get caught up on all the latest gossip at some point. But yeah it's pretty much the same for me too. Also, for my family they aren't very cognizant of LGBT stuff. I remember when my cousin came out probably 15 years ago, they stood around awkwardly hedging around the topic by calling her girlfriend her "friend" and when she showed up at a family gathering with her girlfriend and her girlfriend's daughter, there was a lot of "this is her roommate" introductions and not a single one even saying something like "this is her special friend." It was probably exacerbated by the fact that they were a mixed race couple and the girlfriend's daughter was probably 9 or so. I thought her girlfriend was very nice but I hardly got a chance to talk to her.Anyway it always strikes me as a bit ridiculous that they constantly ask if I have an S.O. and even if I did, they wouldn't acknowledge her because my god, we can't be having those ladies with the ladies. That's just not something we can talk about in polite company.
Although one of my aunts, who I thought would be most against it, was surprisingly awesome when I came out to her a few years ago. Another aunt I know I will not until it's necessary because she's already said repeatedly that if she finds out someone she knows is gay, she'll feel it's her duty to bombard them with Pray the Gay Away Camp information and try to make sure they go, so their soul can be saved. And she was the one I would have thought would be coolest about it.
So I guess the tl;dr is: people are weird.
Yes they are xD Overly religious people make me incredibly uncomfortable (more than the average person *read socially awkward* lol). Their complete and steadfast point of views are both scary and astounding.
haha me too, I'm never quite sure how to respond. On the one hand, I think it's awesome that they found something they care that much about, and that they can devote their entire being to as a belief system. On the other hand, I never want people pushing their beliefs on anyone else. Period. We all are our own people for a reason. If a person wants to say "If you have questions I'm happy to answer" that's different than "You will live your life according to my religion." And getting into discussions can be interesting because there are some people who won't listen to what seems to me logical steps of thought and they won't listen even if you use evidence from the Bible, because they were told a different interpretation by their religious leader in whatever form and therefore that's what's right. My favorite religious people are the spiritual ones, who may be steadfast in their faith, but they also can take a step back and look at it from another way, and they can debate points while still believing what they believe.
Luckily I've really only met a very small subset of people who can't discuss anything/shove their religion on others, and a larger contingent of people who are willing to let others do their thing. But it always throws me off when I meet someone who IS from that subset lol I end up getting really confused by their way of going about everything.
My perfectionist nature got me to a point where I wasn't doing any writing at all, because I was too afraid of failing. But you can also be brave enough to fail. I always go back to Samuel Beckett's quote of, "Fail. Fail again. Fail better." I've had so many encounters with people who are intrusive about their religion. I must have a non-religious sign taped to my forehead because they always find me. But on the other end, there are so many people out there who truly follow their religion, never push it on other people, and are quite accepting. There was one extremely religious friend I had in high school and when I revealed my religious leanings to her, she told me, "Some people get upset about that sort of thing. I don't."
But there are those people who act as though religion is a truth and everyone should be aware of it. And it was very strange to be told as a child that of course my family attended church on Sunday. Well, no, they didn't. Why, should we? I was told constantly that I was growing up in a Christian nation, which made no sense when I was in class with kids who were of variegated religious backgrounds. Or non-backgrounds, but I think I was the only one in that category.
I think that these "truths" are actually quite harmful. It's raising children to have certain expectations about their country that don't really exist.
Both of my parents came from dogmatic religious backgrounds, which is what repulsed them initially. My mom went to Catholic school. She told me that she felt as though she never had the personality for religion, because she was always asking questions at a very young age. One of the nuns said to her, "If you want to be a good Catholic, you had better learn to stop asking questions." And her logical reply was, "But why?"
The rest of my family is much more religious, so my mom always felt as though she was the black sheep. Through my experiences, I think that I just don't have a religious personality. When I explained this to a Japanese teacher once, she told me that in place of religious beliefs, I have personal beliefs. But I don't think it's something that is necessarily me as it was passed on to me from my parents.
I didn't realize how appreciative I was of my non-religious background until I went to a Buddhist meeting. A friend had asked me to come along and I didn't realize until I was there that they were trying to convert me - which is shocking, I didn't know Buddhists were like that, but maybe they were more western. There was an older man I was talking to who kept asking me if my parents approved of me going to the meeting. I told him that I was an adult and could do as I please, and then told him that my parents weren't religious anyway and didn't care if I attended religious meetings. And suddenly, there was a tender look to his eyes. "I wish my parents had been like that."
By the time the meeting was over, I had already constructed a completely fictional story about him in my head: perhaps he was raised by dogmatic parents who never approved of his beliefs, who saw him as a continuation of their beliefs rather than an independent being. And maybe when he decided to become a Buddhist, they cut off all ties to him. It made me realize how much I appreciate the fact that my parents have never tried to form me one way or another.
Being around someone I truly like or care about as a person makes it meaningful to me, but I've never been good at being able to figure out how to bridge the gap between acquaintance at school/work and friend to hang out with at home.
I'm exceptionally horrible at small talk, but I feel as if I have to master that in order to lure people into friendship. At the same time, I can't stand small talk and I feel as though it's just beating around the bush in order to say, "You're a really interesting person." But it feels really awkward to blurt out something like that. There's some kind of invisible construct about socializing that I feel as if I've never grasped, that everyone else knows the steps to get through that maze while I'm always stuck at the very beginning.
There's always fear too, and I think it might be the perfectionist in me, but I'm always afraid that if I ever get around to impressing someone, there's going to be the moment when I don't impress them.
I've always had an easier time getting along with older people because it seems as though there are no hoops to jump through. I don't feel the need to impress them. But those 20-somethings are jigsaw puzzles.
V wrote: "Fail. Fail again. Fail better."That's probably something I need to remember for myself. It's sort of like how the Mythbusters have that mantra: Failure is always an option. Despite how I sometimes feel, failing in and of itself isn't a bad thing, and neither are regrets. They help shape who we are and help us learn who we want to be. Thank you for quoting that because it's a good reminder :)
I was told constantly that I was growing up in a Christian nation, which made no sense when I was in class with kids who were of variegated religious backgrounds. Or non-backgrounds, but I think I was the only one in that category.
Agreed. I have never agreed with the premise that somehow Christianity should trump everything else. It should be all religions or no religions, and since it's hard to properly represent all religions, it should always be in the context of no religions. That's the whole point of the country-- for people to be able to forge their own lives, and pursue their own happiness and liberty. It flies directly in the face of the founding fathers' arguments and intentions, and yet it's the founding fathers that some of those zealot Christians cling to when they defend why their religion should be held above all others for the US.
But that seems to be a debate that will never be won because both sides can bring up enough evidence to support their argument but not enough to convince the other side.
The rest of my family is much more religious, so my mom always felt as though she was the black sheep.
That's my dad exactly. We actually used to specifically go to family reunions late so we made it there in time for the potluck and hanging out and didn't have to sit through the hours of SDA sermons beforehand. He's the only one in his family who isn't SDA. He's the only one who is also actively against the idea of it or at least outright questions it. He, too, constantly questioned things and was told not to do so.
I don't personally believe that anything-- religion or not-- can be trusted if it can't stand up to the questions of a seven year old.
When I explained this to a Japanese teacher once, she told me that in place of religious beliefs, I have personal beliefs. But I don't think it's something that is necessarily me as it was passed on to me from my parents.
That's a cool way of looking at it! I feel the same about myself, actually. My belief system is in part due to my parents, and the biggest two directives they ever gave us were the Golden Rule (treat others as you want to be treated yourself) and to question things and find the answer on my own. It's probably no wonder I became such a research freak lol
By the way, that was an interesting story about the Buddhist you met. The back story you created in your mind for him made me sad in conjunction with the description of his tender smile :(
I'm exceptionally horrible at small talk, but I feel as if I have to master that in order to lure people into friendship. [...] There's some kind of invisible construct about socializing that I feel as if I've never grasped, that everyone else knows the steps to get through that maze while I'm always stuck at the very beginning.
That's what it's like for me when I find someone I like. I have no idea how to go about expressing this idea. And I don't know how to try to ask them if they're interested in return without being super awkward about it.
I guess it's different for everyone but I think for me, personally, if someone I had just met who barely knew me said I was a really interesting person without all the small talk first, I wouldn't necessarily think that's weird, I'd just question their reason for believing that if we hadn't spoken much. So maybe it would work to say "I think ___ is interesting" -- whatever it is that you find of interest in that person -- and maybe that could be for you a more direct way of getting to the topic at hand and letting the person know that they interest you without having to do all the "some weather we're having lately, huh?" small talk in the meantime. Of course, most likely this would result in at least some amount of small talk about whatever topic you bring up.
But I also think honesty can go a long way. It might be a bit awkward to straight out say, "I'm not very good at small talk because I prefer to get straight to the point, so I'm sorry if this seems forward, but I think you're a really interesting person because ___." But if someone said that to me, I'd understand where they were coming from so then any awkwardness could easily be dismissed as simply them being unused to this sort of social interaction. I think people just need some bit of information to understand the context of whatever social interaction. If a person doesn't know the unspoken social cues for how to interact, at least being upfront about that gives the other person the chance to acknowledge that and ignore anything they might otherwise see as weird.
Some people might still be weirded out and not interact but those are probably also the same people you wouldn't want as friends anyway, because it would showcase an inability to be flexible when it comes to your personality, which means if you were to go on and be friends you would always feel like you had to hamstring yourself or change yourself in some way to be acceptable to them and that's definitely not fair to you and not a very healthy balance in a relationship for either of you.
I don't know how many people would look at it the way I do, though, I guess. So I'm probably not being helpful at all, especially on a topic you didn't even ask advice for. But I was thinking about how I feel the same way as you and I always wish I could more often just come out and say something to people. And I guess in my experience the times I have it hasn't been as awkward as I thought it would be because, after the initial bout of surprise, people seem to generally take to honesty pretty well.
Samuel Beckett to the rescue! And Mythbusters! But I've found that sometimes the pieces that I think are awful and horrible can be good if I give myself enough time away from them. That's the whole point of the country-- for people to be able to forge their own lives, and pursue their own happiness and liberty.
Exactly. I think that some people don't really understand what the words "freedom" and "liberty" actually mean.
We actually used to specifically go to family reunions late so we made it there in time for the potluck and hanging out and didn't have to sit through the hours of SDA sermons beforehand.
My mom would do the exact same thing, to a point where I didn't even know how religious my family was. I always think of Easter as being about getting together with the family, eating good food, and hunting down eggs (which, as more children have been added to the family, means that the adults gain joy out of devilish hiding spots, myself included). Later, I learned that my family attended church in the morning.
There was one time when my mom mentioned that my cousin's son had a baptism. I took some time to process that because I never thought of my family as being that religious. But my uncle's family is also rather accepting. I've found that if I just never bring up religion, everything's a-okay. Actually, my sister is more dogmatic than my uncle's family and she's an atheist.
My belief system is in part due to my parents, and the biggest two directives they ever gave us were the Golden Rule (treat others as you want to be treated yourself) and to question things and find the answer on my own.
Though he never said it, my dad's always been very big on ethics over religion. But I think that was the point of religion in a much earlier time, too. A lot of the rules found in religious texts are simply societal norms, such as not killing people, because that's no good for survival of the species. I've met plenty of people who have said that religion created ethics and morals, but I think that humans have always had a sense of morality, because if we only worked for survival of the individual, we'd be a stagnant species. I think it's just built into us.
When your parents don't provide you with the answers of the world, even if one is from a religious background, because I knew of religious parents who allowed their children to choose, I believe it makes you learn to question and it cultivates curiosity. Rather than smash it, which is what indoctrination does.
"I'm not very good at small talk because I prefer to get straight to the point, so I'm sorry if this seems forward, but I think you're a really interesting person because ___."
In all my years of socializing, I never once thought to be honest. I think it's because I gained a habit of observing people and parroting back their behaviors and words while simultaneously not being myself. And then somewhere in my twenties, I realized I couldn't even do that anymore.
I've had some rather disastrous friendly relationships in my life due to the fact that I would attempt to act like someone else only to have them make fun of me behind my back. And the worst thing is to confuse that with friendship, which is easy to do at a young age. Or perhaps the worst thing is to continue on with that throughout life. If anything, I've learned through those relationships that it's not worth the derision.
I'm appreciative of the advice! It's something I need to work on. Some people have "Don't panic" written all over their palms. I think I need to start writing "Be honest" on my hands.
My friend, the one I thought was like my doppelganger in RL, just dropped a bomb on me a few days ago and it brought this topic right back to the forefront of my mind, because man did she divert! I mean she took a whole 180 degree turn which I wasn't expecting at all, and it's made me think that she hasn't really been anything close to my doppelganger for a good long while now and she was hiding it. I have been trying to get my feet back under me since then. And yeah anyway, it just tied in to this post so well, felt like sharing xD
Though I grew up in California, there are many similarities between your issues in school and mine. Andrew Solomon talked about the fact that when you're of a different sexual identity, or not heterosexual, you feel different from everyone else at a very young age. But it wasn't just sexuality. My parents never raised me with a set of religious beliefs and I was surrounded by some rather devoutly religious kids. Instead of seeming normal, it all seemed very strange to me. I was constantly confused by my peers.
I still have difficulty relating to people my age and some of this has to do with the fact that I majored in English. When people talk to me about books, we're on different strands of conversations. And I often think to myself, "You're 27. Get your act together and start making some friends."
The only consolation we have is that no one can see anything the way we do. Everyone has a variant look on things. And I'm always fascinated to find someone who is on the same vein as I am because it's a moment of, "finally, someone with a different view-point on the same subject."
It's not a matter of yes and no but of degrees, I guess.