Richard III and Ned Stark

I probably won’t be able to resume my Today in History posts until the book is done since I will have to flee the country if I miss the deadline. But I couldn’t resist taking a brief break today to link history and Game of Thrones. Most know that the Martin series is loosely, very loosely, based on the Wars of the Roses. His readers have amused themselves over the years by speculating who his characters are supposed to be. Everyone thinks that Cersei and Robert are Elizabeth Woodville and Edward IV, although I personally think Martin has maligned Edward if that is so. But after that, it is anyone’s guess. Is Danaerys a much more attractive stand-in for Henry Tudor? Is Ned Stark a version of Richard III or, as I’ve heard it suggested, his father, the Duke of York? Who in the world is Joffroi modeled after? Even George of Clarence would consider that character assassination. I’ve come across some very intriguing and imaginative theories from Martin readers, many of whom should clearly be writing their own books. I confess that at times I saw Richard III in Ned Stark. But they differed in some important aspects as today’s historical happening proves. On June 13, 1483, Richard sent Will Hastings to the block after an acrimonious council meeting at the Tower. And I think all Game of Thrones fans can agree on this—that the honorable Ned Stark would never have executed a man without benefit of trial. I am not saying honor did not matter to Richard, too, merely that he had more finely honed survival skills than Ned. Sadly, men who always put honor first did not thrive, either in the MA or the Martin universe.
Very nasty weather in the US. Good luck to all of us in the paths of these dangerous storms.
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Published on June 13, 2013 07:34
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message 1: by Kelly (new)

Kelly I honestly don't think GRRM has put as much thought into that as fans of the series have, but maybe I'm just bitter. :)


message 2: by Loretta (new)

Loretta Stay safe! And if you flee the country, come to the UK and do a book signing. I would love to say hi.


message 3: by Sharon (new)

Sharon LOL, Kelly. I was just reading that he still gets hate mail from readers who've not forgiven him for the Red Wedding.
Loretta, I'll be in the UK in September when the new hardcover edition of Sunne comes out, and I am sure my publisher will line up some book signings. I've been invited to do one at Bosworth Field, which is way cool.


message 4: by Loretta (last edited Jun 13, 2013 08:59AM) (new)

Loretta Sharon wrote: "LOL, Kelly. I was just reading that he still gets hate mail from readers who've not forgiven him for the Red Wedding.
Loretta, I'll be in the UK in September when the new hardcover edition of Sunn..."


Wow, it would be fantastic if I was well enough to meet you. I have a tiny little book signing myself in September - I do hope it isn't on the same day. Mine will not be a big draw, lol! I probably won't be able to get to Bosworth Field - which would be amazing, but if you have any in the Hertfordshire or Buckinhamshire area and my husband isn't busy (I can't drive) I really hope I can make it! Would be awesome to meet you. I already have Sunne, will you be signing your upcoming one too? How exciting. I hope you'll post pics of the Bosworth Field one! So very thrilling.


message 5: by Kelly (new)

Kelly Sharon wrote: "LOL, Kelly. I was just reading that he still gets hate mail from readers who've not forgiven him for the Red Wedding.
Loretta, I'll be in the UK in September when the new hardcover edition of Sunn..."


Oh I have no issue with ANYTHING in "A Storm of Swords" - that's the best book out of the series, in my opinion!


message 6: by Sharon (new)

Sharon I'd love to meet you, too, Loretta. We'll have to see if we can make it happen.


message 7: by Samantha (new)

Samantha Kelly wrote: "I honestly don't think GRRM has put as much thought into that as fans of the series have, but maybe I'm just bitter. :)"

I don't know if he hasn't put as much thought into it as much as he seems to have combined qualities and events involving multiple people into one character, rather than having them line up cleanly. He clearly studies history and enjoys messing with our heads!


message 8: by Loretta (last edited Jun 13, 2013 11:29AM) (new)

Loretta Sharon wrote: "I'd love to meet you, too, Loretta. We'll have to see if we can make it happen."

That would be fantastic, Sharon.


message 9: by R (new)

R real life is never as honourable as people think, is it


message 10: by Joanne (new)

Joanne what's the book you're finishing? Have loved them all!


message 11: by Tina (new)

Tina Galli Joanne wrote: "what's the book you're finishing? Have loved them all!"

Joanne It will be called Ransom and I can't wait for it to hit the press!


message 12: by Sharon (new)

Sharon A King's Ransom is the full title and it is the sequel to Lionheart, ending my telling of the story of the Angevins since I'd already dealt with John's reign in Here be Dragons. I give Eleanor a much deserved death scene in it since I had her die off-stage in Dragons.


message 13: by Joanne (new)

Joanne thanks! Might have to reread Dragons. Utah Shakespeare is doing King John this summer and am refreshing on the period. Just started Lionheart.


message 14: by Loretta (new)

Loretta Sharon wrote: "A King's Ransom is the full title and it is the sequel to Lionheart, ending my telling of the story of the Angevins since I'd already dealt with John's reign in Here be Dragons. I give Eleanor a m..."

Can't wait to get my hands on it.


message 15: by Tina (new)

Tina Galli I got my deal of the day this morning at a yard sale An original hardback edition of sunne in a yard sale for a buck! It is in immaculate condition! Cannot wait for A kings Ransom to complete the set!


message 16: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca Oh I do hope you can Loretta will meet up. How fantastic that will be for you both!

@ Kelly I loved 'Storm of Swords' but I did throw it across the room when I reached a particular point in the book, but after a few hours of fuming, I picked it up again. I did find 'A Feast for Crows' hard going mainly because Tyrion had no POV. I enjoyed it better the second time round.

I will also be looking forward to 'A Kings Ransom.'

Good luck Sharon and Loretta!:)


message 17: by Jon (new)

Jon I think the mistake people make is trying to find a direct one to one correlation between the historical figures and the characters in ASOIAF.
It is evident that many characteristics are indeed shared but, in general, I think GRRM picked various traits from several historical figures and imbued them in his characters.

For example, Tywin is inspired mostly by Edward I, but he also shares traits with several other historical figures.

Re Joffrey: the crazy part is easy and could've been inspired by many of the crazy rulers throughout history. As to whom he resembles from Enlighs history, I have a pretty controversial opinion on that, so I'll keep it to myself for now :)


message 18: by Sharon (new)

Sharon Jon, that's mean! Don't keep us in suspense; we love controversial opinions here.


message 19: by Jon (new)

Jon Well... Ok.

Richard II (the Second)!

*runs away*


message 20: by Sharon (new)

Sharon Interesting. Some of my readers on Facebook posted some really surprising and creative ideas about this subject, and once I get the book done, I'll share some of them here. I used to think Joffrey was the resident psycho on Thrones, but I think he has been dethroned by Ramsay Bolton. Joffrey, for all his cruelty, often shows that he is still a child. While that does not excuse what he does, it does make him less culpable than Ramsay, at least IMHO. Ramsay is pure evil.


message 21: by Loretta (new)

Loretta Rebecca wrote: "Oh I do hope you can Loretta will meet up. How fantastic that will be for you both!

@ Kelly I loved 'Storm of Swords' but I did throw it across the room when I reached a particular point in the bo..."


:-)


message 22: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca I agree when it comes to Tywin being loosely based on Edward I, but, I think also there is a pinch of Philippe IV. I read the Iron King and can see they share some similar characteristics.
When it comes to Joffrey my thoughts flew to the Romansj such as Caligula, Nero with a touch of Herod(the murder of the Baratheon bastards). As for Ramsay Bolton, he is just heinous, and yes, total evil.

“If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.'

*shudders*


message 23: by Jennifer (new)

Jennifer Don't you think Joffrey is a little bit like Henry VI's son Edward?


message 24: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca The first thing that sprung to my mind when reading about Joffrey were the Romans. I have to add what a superb job Jack Gleeson does with this heinous character-I only wish that Tyrion could slap him again! lol


message 25: by Robin (new)

Robin While I was reading Alison Weir's The Wars of the Roses there were some moments that reminded me of scenes from ASOIAF:

(view spoiler)

Also, not Wars of the Roses but I saw parallels between Margaery Tyrell and Anne Boleyn. (view spoiler)


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