daggerpen: gailsimone: daggerpen: gailsimone: daggerpen: 13l...

daggerpen: gailsimone: daggerpen: <...

daggerpen:

gailsimone:

daggerpen:

gailsimone:

daggerpen:

13l...

gailsimone:

daggerpen:

gailsimone:

daggerpen:

13luckywishes:

daggerpen:

gailsimone:

airawyn:

gailsimone:

ihaveaphdinhorribleness:

liquidiousfleshbag:

gailsimone:

I moved my toes, Dinah. I moved my toes.

This was inspired by Christopher Reeve.

I know many pwd have a problem with some of how Reeve talked about his paralysis, as something that could be ‘beaten,’ and that’s all perfectly valid. For many, that is never an option. And he had access to treatment most people would never be able to afford.

But I found some of his story very inspirational. After years of therapy, Reeve became able to move his wrist and a little bit of one hand, and he regained sensation in his legs. Now, this can’t happen to everyone in his situation. But he did work at it every agonizing day, and eventually, he could feel his family touching his legs, he could feel water in the therapy pool, and he could move his hand at least a bit. That sounds like not much, maybe.

But it must have felt like moving mountains to him.

I had been talking quite a bit with people at Reeve’s institute, which was doing research and rehab of this kind. And I felt we should reflect that a little bit in the book. We got tons of mail about it from pwd, almost all positive, I think they knew the story was intended to be hopeful, not castigating or condescending.

Again, it reminds me what an Oracle-shaped whole we have in comics right now. :(

my problem with oracle getting “cured” or however you wanna phrase it i don’t know is that it ALWAYS happens like that

disabled people in media never stay disabled AND actual people, they’re either evil or jokes, or they’re fixed before they can become one of those things

things like this encourages nondisabled people to think of disabled people as less than “normal” people, or just temporarily stuck in some awful place

fixing oracle was bullshit because it took away the one goddamned person in comics who looked like me

there are MILLIONS of fucking people in comics who can walk, did you really need to add another one

it was just nice to have one person who was in a wheelchair, and i could look at her and smile because she is like me

the thing is, yes, technically i can move my legs and walk, except for the part where i really can’t because it completely destroys and exhausts me

it’s so frustrating to see the one person like you “cured” when you will most likely never ever get that opportunity

it feels like a slight against me and against people like me

maybe it wasn’t meant that way

but it doesn’t stop it from feeling that way anyway

It’s totally understandable, and it sucks that ONE character had all that on her shoulders, when there should be LOTS of pwd characters people can look up to.

If there were a ton of PWDs in comics, it might be slightly less offensive to cure one. But there’s not. Don’t try to shift the blame, Gail.

“Shift the blame?”

I’ve talked about this ENDLESSLY. I have said repeatedly that taking Oracle out left a huge hole in PWD representation of comics.

It was going to happen with or without me. I wanted it to be done as respectfully as possible. People can blame me for taking the assignment, certainly. But I have never denied that losing Oracle is a big deal. I’ve never tried to talk anyone out of being mad about it.

I said what I said here because it’s true, and irritating. It IS screwed up that one character in comics seemed to be holding the mantle of pwd representation on her shoulders. Saying that doesn’t discount anyone’s feelings about Oracle’s disappearance in the new universe, including my own, which I have stated so often people are sick of hearing me talk about it.

If I were trying to shift the blame, I wouldn’t be here talking about it constantly.

… can I… maybe… interject here?

Gail, you know the endless respect I have for you and your writing, but…
I really, really don’t think you should have taken the Batgirl assignment.

Like. Yes, it was going to happen with or without you, but your name being attached to it was a huge factor in the book’s success. Oracle fans trust you. People trusted you to handle that story properly. You saw the huge outcry when you were dismissed from the book, and all the people talking about how you were the reason they continued to buy the book.

And what’s more… there is no way to make removing Babs’s disabled status nonproblematic.

None.

Everything you have done, the respectful way you have treated the narrative, the questions you have dealt with, that has all made the story less gross, but in the end, it’s still gross. And more than that… by choosing to have Babs be “cured” via surgery rather than deaging her to before the Joker and his gun, I feel like you’ve made it almost impossible for Babs to be Oracle again without some other huge continuity shakeup.

Like, say the current climate changes and we do want to return Babs’s disabled status. What happens? Does she spontaneously revert to her old injuries? Does she get in another accident? It’s a plot very difficult to do without it feeling contrived or gross. The thing with the other adaptations of Babs as Batgirl, such as in Young Justice, is that you always get the feeling that Oracle is in her future. It’s always possible somewhere down the road. But now, it feels like Oracle is gone. Not just absent the possibility from the future, but absent apparently from the past, as there is no indication of her as Oracle in the DCnU.

And what’s more, it’s a huge downgrade for Babs. She used to be the (wo)man behind the curtain, the shadowy figure whose name the most powerful feared. She had a wide network of operatives, a huge circle of friends and allies, nearly all of whom are now absent from the DCnU, while Babs herself runs around Gotham kicking criminals in the head. She was a powerful woman and an icon for people with mobility issues. I admittedly don’t know much about what has been happening in your Batgirl run, because I have been purposefully avoiding it due to my qualms with both the decision to remove Babs’s disability and with the DCnU in general, but I really don’t know in what way the DCnU Babs is anything but a downgrade in terms of competency, power, and, most importantly, media representation.

Yes, it would have happened with or without you. But you still chose to help make it happen. You chose to write this when your refusal would have spoken volumes, to cheerlead for the DCnU rather than condemn it, and the fact that you have openly criticized it doesn’t negate that.

Woah. Can- can we just not, daggerpen? Look, I quietly stalk you. I admire a lot of what you say. But this attitude really just bothers me.

Somehow it’s perfectly acceptable to attack not just the people who actually made the decision to take Babs back out the wheelchair, but also a really fantastic person who took the job of writing her character because she wanted the transition to be respectful as possible. You’re attacking a woman for fighting to keep Barbara Gordon upstanding and respected, because she didn’t take exactly the course you would have, and didn’t put her job on hold to fight a crusade that, unfortunately, isn’t and can’t be her entire life, and who may have well helped the problem avoiding tanking to disastrous places.

Saying that Gail Simone is at fault for any of this, passing the blame onto her, is ignorant and self-absorbed in the way that says she should have tackled the situation like you would have. Like because she didn’t stop to ask the social justice bloggers what to do before she took a job, suddenly she’s some kind of supervillain of the writers world.

Look, maybe not all the best choices were made for the new book. Maybe they were. I don’t know, because like you, I haven’t read it.

But attacking Gail like that just isn’t okay. Go after the people who made the decision to pull her out, not a woman who’s fighting the good fight by redirecting the damage, who’s fighting for the same things you are in a different way.

I don’t see how that helps anyone.

In what way am I “attacking” Gail? I’m saying that while I understand why she took the assignment, I’m not sure it was really the best move. Gail has often said that she only took the job because, knowing that the removal of Babs’s disability would happen either way, she wanted to do damage control. I’m saying that I appreciate the sentiment, but I feel like it was the wrong decision, and that I sympathize with the people who are bitter about Gail agreeing to write the series, including several close friends of mine. I don’t respect Gail any less for it, but the discussion of whether it’s better to try to make something less problematic even though it will never not be problematic or whether it’s better not to further the success of something problematic is worth having, and this thread seems to be the place to do it.

That is a pretty egregious retcon of what I’ve actually said, Amy. If you frame my argument in terms that only support your position, well, you know that’s not exactly fair.

I agree losing Oracle sucks for a variety of reasons. Probably the same reasons you feel it and more.

But please, don’t change my words to make your point. I will do you the same courtesy.

No distortion was intended, but I feel like I may have misinterpreted your statements, then. I took “It was going to happen with or without me. I wanted it to be done as respectfully as possible.” to mean that you took the assignment with the intent of doing damage control.

Perhaps, but to me, as a writer, those two statements are miles apart. “Respectfully as possible,” vs. “damage control?”

They are vastly different.

Listen, when conversations get down to this level of parsing, I really find they are not very useful. You say no distortion was intended and I completely accept that. I believe those two statements imply vastly different things. But I accept that it was unintentional. Fair?

Unfortunately, it’s my night to spend some time with my delightful fella, and I think this comes down to some people feeling I shouldn’t have agreed to write this book. I’m sorry, but that’s always going to be my choice. Someone will always, always decide they know what you should do with your life and art better than you do, but looking at the reasons and the situation, I chose to not abandon a character that means a lot to me. That was my choice, if that choice causes people not to read my work or follow Batgirl, I regretfully understand and wish them well.

I consider them to be pretty much the same thing? The idea behind both to me as a writer with a rather blunt bent is minimizing harm to both Babs and PWDs. Either way, though, you’re right that a semantics debate gets us nowhere. You made your decision to write Batgirl, and I made my decision not to buy it, and neither of those decisions are likely to change anytime soon. I still wish you well and really do hope you will find another assignment you like sometime soon, either in stead of or in addition to Batgirl, that I will be comfortable buying sometime soon, as I do very much enjoy your work.