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But what actually caused me to respond is the beginning of your post about female character. One would think that female writers in this genre would understand female characters, unfortunately my impression is to the contrary based on how female characters are written in the *vast* and I mean vast majority of the books I have read in this genre. And I am quite well read in the genre by now. Basically "women characters in this genre are usually relegated to bitch or whore position" is something I am 100% agree with.
I know few exceptions of course and happy and delighted every time I see it, but for every exception I can quote probably ten titles where we have horrible, awful, either STOOPID or caricature evil woman and I just wonder why. Why does the genre where vast majority of the writers is female does that to the characters of their own gender?
I am honestly curious about your opinion on that matter.
Please forgive me for the derailing of your post, it is not caused by any book you wrote, it is just been piling up and piling up and piling up with almost every book I read for the review and pleasure and reading your post just was a catalist for this rant :-)
Sirius
I wonder why as well! Maybe we're all so fascinated with men that we don't bother to think deeply about our women characters. Because if we think deeply about them at all, the women are going to have a profound impact on the lives of men, being their mothers, daughters, wives, ex-wives, neighbors, nieces, etc. Positive or negative impacts, but the impact is there. Who doesn't work with women? We don't exist in isolation, maybe with the exception of Chinatown in San Francisco- I suspect that is as isolated a community as exists on the planet. (I have just come from a visit.)
I was actually worried about this latest manuscript, because my female character is so real, and her grievance so valid, I'm afraid many readers are going to side with her- or at the very least, empathize with her to the point that they have no empathy for the guys. Part of the challenge, and why I wanted to explore this.
Maybe we all just need to write better characters? And better stories? Work harder on craft, and pay attention to what we're doing?
I was actually worried about this latest manuscript, because my female character is so real, and her grievance so valid, I'm afraid many readers are going to side with her- or at the very least, empathize with her to the point that they have no empathy for the guys. Part of the challenge, and why I wanted to explore this.
Maybe we all just need to write better characters? And better stories? Work harder on craft, and pay attention to what we're doing?
To follow up on what you said- new writers so often are encouraged to "write what you know"-- with the idea of a degree of familiarity adding some polish or expertise to the narrative. This is why women writers have so often in the past been encouraged to write women characters. We have the details down already. It's easier. It's not as much work. We have some degree of automatic credibility. It hasn't been that long ago that I caught myself staring at a man's name on the cover of a book written from the POV of a woman, and thinking, Ha! What the hell does he know about women? Good luck with that, buddy.
But speaking for myself as a writer, I want the challenge that comes from writing from the POV of a character of a different gender. Writing challenges can also come from form, structure, other craft issues, but I really love character. I don't want it to be easy. I have to work for it, otherwise I'm bored before I start.
I suspect lots of people still wonder, what the hell does she know about men, about being gay, about being 24- none of which I am. I know they do. I've done it myself. I think if I was a young gay man, I would resent being a source of entertainment for all these women. I would question if I was being exploited.
I would just say, let's not be so hasty to put up walls between us. Let's take some of those labels down- labels are really important for forming identity- so it's good for teenagers to be able to put all the labels on themselves they want. Put it all on a tee shirt! But then, when you're older, let's take some of those walls down. We are all so much more alike than we are different. And now, I would say to men wanting to write about women- have at it! Let's see what you can come up with.
But speaking for myself as a writer, I want the challenge that comes from writing from the POV of a character of a different gender. Writing challenges can also come from form, structure, other craft issues, but I really love character. I don't want it to be easy. I have to work for it, otherwise I'm bored before I start.
I suspect lots of people still wonder, what the hell does she know about men, about being gay, about being 24- none of which I am. I know they do. I've done it myself. I think if I was a young gay man, I would resent being a source of entertainment for all these women. I would question if I was being exploited.
I would just say, let's not be so hasty to put up walls between us. Let's take some of those labels down- labels are really important for forming identity- so it's good for teenagers to be able to put all the labels on themselves they want. Put it all on a tee shirt! But then, when you're older, let's take some of those walls down. We are all so much more alike than we are different. And now, I would say to men wanting to write about women- have at it! Let's see what you can come up with.

Right, certainly agree with what you said, only as a reader, not writer :-). And certainly - I think some books make gay men question whether they are being exploited and justifiably so. It is just to me it is different from questioning whether men can write women or women can write men. I guess to me the answer is that any good writer who set the goal of writing respectfully and sensitively about marginalized people can do so if they put their mind to it.
Obviously straight woman writer would never know personally what it means to be a gay man and straight man writing about lesbian women would never know that as well, but if they are writing for something other than fetish, well I have faith in their writing abilities.
If they want to put on paper what they learned from research and by empasizing, I think it could be a very good thing.

Maybe. I mean, certainly asking for some depth in the secondary characters is not too much to ask I hope :). And maybe making the only woman in the story a villain is also not always a way to go? Anyway, thanks for listening.
Yes!!! And that is what I love to read.