Why can't Babs grow up?

stanleynichols:

gailsimone:

zaataronpita:

You know, I’m not a fan of Batgirl right now.  It has less to do with Gail Simone specifically and more to do with Babs’ demotion.  She isn’t a leader.  She isn’t a woman.  She’s a girl stuck in a sidekick role forever, never allowed to grow up.  Batgirl.  The Batgirl role should be like Robin, something to eventually grow out of and pass on (hello, Cass and Steph), but DC isn’t letting her.  A twenty something year old character should have a future as something beyond Batgirl.  It isn’t Batwoman, Kate has that role.  It isn’t Oracle, not any more.  Babs is stuck.

Can you imagine Dick Grayson, who should be around Babs’ age, being called Batboy?  No.  Because he’s no longer a boy.  He’s a man.  He’s no longer Robin.  He’s Nightwing.  He’s grown up and out of his childhood vigilante identity.  So why can’t Babs?  Well, she did, way back when, before she became Oracle.  She retired the mantle of Batgirl, not because she was sick of vigilante-ing, but because she said she had outgrown it.  She wanted her own identity, separate from Bruce, and separate from girl, which she no longer was.

I had the opportunity to ask Gail Simone, writer of Batgirl, about this when I visited her booth at Emerald City Comic Con.  I was excited.  Gail Simone wrote Babs as the hero I loved in Birds of Prey.  I loved that title and I loved Secret Six.  I’m a huge fan of her Tumblr and the way she responds to fans.  So I had so much hope for the conversation. Unfortunately, I received the brush off.  

I started out telling Gail Simone the things I always wanted to say to her:  That Birds of Prey was one of my favorite comics of all times.  That Oracle gave me hope for women in leadership positions in comics.  That I loved her writing and her characters.  But when I started voicing curious concerns about what I’ve written above, she turned cold.  I don’t think she wanted to have this conversation at all.  I asked about Babs’ age and how that would relate to her current title, I was told she was barely twenty-one, she has many years of Batgirl ahead of her. As if that makes it okay for her to be only girl and not woman, stuck in this sidekick role.  When I asked about her future, if she had any other plans, I got the same answer.  Finally, as I was leaving, I got a joking answer about how she used to be interested in criminal psychology.  But that isn’t the stuff of comics  No, she was Batgirl and she would stay Batgirl.  

I’m going to give Ms. Simone the benefit of the doubt.  I am sure she gets a lot of flak from a lot of fans, and I’m sure many are less than respectful when they confront her.  Maybe she was expecting that from me and was trying to fend it off.  I don’t know.  But I left the booth very unsatisfied, just as I leave Batgirl comics.  Because Babs is a girl again, even as she ages.  She isn’t a leader, she isn’t a genius, and she isn’t a woman.  She’s a bat with a smile and a high kick.  And she’s never going to grow up.

What the hell?

What the hell, what? Everything said above was true. Babara has been regressed backwards, into an identity that she grew out of and that no longer suits her. The new comic is not your best work. It’s not even very good at all. I’ve seen you write screeds of gratitude and praise whenever someone says something positive. I’ve seen you absolutely refuse to shut up when people had less valid criticisms. So now, the person above has perfectly summed up why it’s shitty that Barbara is Batgirl again and how you’ve given them the brush off, and you simply respond with “What the hell?” And prove their point. You’re just brushing them off again. 

My “what the hell” had nothing to do with with the OP’s opinion on the book. They are absolutely entitled to them, as are you entitled to yours.

My ‘what the hell’ is because I guaran-fricking-tee this conversation never happened, not like this. That thing at the end, about Babs not being interested in criminology, and it ‘not being the stuff of comics,’ that’s absolutely absurd. I never, ever said that, I can’t even imagine saying anything that could be charitably misconstrued in that way. I know what Babs’ history is, I know what her interests are, and I had a zero issue plotted AT THE TIME that showed that criminology was her passion.

“Not the stuff of comics?”  No way, no way in the world. The original poster either misheard or misquoted, you might as well say that I said Ragdoll wasn’t interested in monkeys. No WAY that happened. I don’t believe it for a moment. I don’t think that, I don’t think anything like that, and it makes me very suspicious of the rest of this post.

Here’s what it means to be a writer in comics at a convention, when you write characters people care about. At ECCC, I was swamped, swamped like I have almost never been before. I don’t know why, but I was busy from the moment I walked into the hall until ten minutes before closing the final day. There were lines almost the whole time and never a break of more than a few seconds. I barely had time to go to the bathroom and I hurried back whenever I had to go, so people didn’t have to wait. I didn’t have time for lunch, and every time I did a panel, when I came back, there were people waiting for signings. I am positive most anyone who was there will back me up on this.

I hate to make readers wait, so I stayed at my table, I never took any breaks, not even to go speak with friends or colleagues or to see a panel. I speak to every single person in line, and I try to be as kind and helpful as I can be. The idea that I was some hostile presence because someone doesn’t like the new Batgirl…well, I am skeptical in the extreme.

I don’t recall this conversation. I am doing a lot of cons, I speak to thousands of readers. My stock response if someone doesn’t like a book is some variation of, I’m sorry you didn’t care for the book.

That’s about it. That’s mostly what I have time for if there are people waiting for a signature. I defy most anyone to do much better in a crowded, busy con when you are swamped for three straight days.

As to the ‘brush off,’ well, I have spoken about these topics endlessly. Repeatedly. How anyone can follow my tumblr and never have seen me address this stuff, well, again, it makes me wonder how honest they are being. And posting praise…whatever. People say nice things, sometimes I repost it. It’s probably maybe 1 thing out of fifty I receive. I have also reposted criticism. If the ratio isn’t what you would prefer, I don’t know what to say to that.

Do I believe this poster came to me with concerns and criticisms and I probably didn’t answer them to their satisfaction? Very probably. But I have people every day of every con with VERY SERIOUS FEELINGS and I can rarely answer them as I would if we were having a discussion anywhere but across a noisy table at a packed con with other people waiting in line.

I have no skepticism whatsoever about the op’s sincerity in their beliefs about the new book, and one of the reasons I don’t screed about it is simply, what DO you say? Someone doesn’t like a book or a direction, who am I to argue them out of it? It’s obnoxious, I’ve seen writers do that, I’ve done it myself, it just makes them look foolish.

I disagree with a lot of the poster’s points. I agree with some. If we had talked on Tumblr or at a less busy signing, maybe it would have been more in-depth, but I doubt I would have had the answers to make them happy, because Barbara IS being shown at an earlier point in her life and career. She hasn’t achieved everything yet, she can’t topple kingdoms with a button. That is kind of the point. Agree or don’t agree, that’s fine, but I certainly didn’t make that decision. We are showing an earlier Batgirl, and just as the Batgirl in DC animation isn’t yet fully evolved, a lot of people enjoy seeing her at this earlier stage. Not everyone does. I understand that. If I didn’t sit down and address this stuff point by point in detail, it is because it’s hard as hell to hold ANY decent conversation when you are swamped, the con is noisy, you are talking across a table and there are people talking right next to you, some readers barely speak above a whisper, and some are very angry about something when they show up, often about things I have little to no control over at all.

I do my best. I don’t give people the ‘brush off.’ I spend my time at cons trying to talk to as many readers as possible for as long as possible. I just finished San Diego Comicon, which I paid for totally at my expense, and it was expensive as hell. I didn’t see a single panel for myself, I didn’t spend time in the green room sipping iced tea, I spent almost every moment I could doing things for readers, including three social justice panels and charity signings, I endlessly tweeted about small press books from people just breaking in, I answered every question as best I could until I went back to my hotel and collapsed after every night.

I do my best. This op may not have gotten the answer they wanted, but I am completely skeptical about the alleged tone of this conversation. Frankly, I don’t believe it for a moment. Maybe they didn’t like what I said, but the idea that I ignored them or dismissed them completely…

…I’m sorry, that’s extremely unlikely at best.

I’m sorry I didn’t give them the answers they wanted to hear. But that doesn’t translate into being ignored or treated badly, which seems to be what they are alleging.