Crafting Ethical AI Worlds with Abigail Hing Wen
Crafting Ethical AI Worlds with Abigail Hing Wen – How To Write the Future podcast, episode 180
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“I try to write worlds that I believe are attainable and that I think we can aspire towards.” – Abigail Hing Wen
In this future‑forward episode of How To Write The Future, host Beth Barany chats with author‑filmmaker Abigail Hing Wen about The Vale — a middle‑grade fantasy where a family builds a clean, AI‑generated virtual world. They get into why ethical AI matters for storytellers, what “clean AI” looks like, and the real‑world tradeoffs creators face as tech evolves.
Why ethical AI matters for writers and readersWhat “clean AI” means: trained on your work and public‑domain classicsCraft meets tech: worldbuilding across book, short film, and RobloxPractical questions around indemnification, settlements, and building responsiblyPlatforms the podcast is available on: Apple Podcasts | Buzzsprout | Spotify| YouTube
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About the How To Write the Future podcastThe How To Write The Future podcast is for science fiction and fantasy writers who want to write positive futures and successfully bring those stories out into the marketplace. Hosted by Beth Barany, science fiction novelist and creativity coach for writers. We cover tips for fiction writers.This podcast is for readers too if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.
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This podcast is for readers, too, if you’re at all curious about the future of humanity.
ABOUT ABIGAIL HING WEN
Abigail Hing Wen is an author, film producer and director as well as former tech executive. She is the New York Times best selling author of multiple novels for young people, including Loveboat, Taipei, which has been adapted as the movie Love in Taipei, now on Netflix. Abigail served as an executive producer and on set during production. Abigail is directing her first short film starring Lea Salonga, a prequel to her middle grade debut THE VALE, coming September 2025, and featuring an inventor family that builds an AI generated virtual world. She serves on the board of Harvardwood and as a judge for the 2025 Golden Trailer Awards recognizing the industry’s most outstanding film trailers.
Abigail is a frequent keynote speaker for young people, including Y’Allfest, US Presidential Scholars, and the Los Altos High Writer’s Week, as well as libraries, colleges, schools and bookstores around the country. She’s also given keynotes and fireside chats for the National Conference of State Legislatures, Meta, Google, Paramount, Paypal and other companies, and spoken on panels at SDCC, LACC, LA Times Festival of Books and ALA.
Website: www.abigailhingwen.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/abigailhingwen/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/search?q=abigailhingwen
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abigailhingwen/
Transcript for episode 180 – Crafting Ethical AI Worlds with Abigail Hing Wen Introduction and Host’s BackgroundBETH BARANY: Hi everyone. Welcome to How to Write the Future podcast. I am your host, Beth Barany. I’m a science fiction and fantasy writer, also a creativity coach, editor, podcaster and filmmaker. And I also help creative entrepreneurs get their businesses started. So yeah, like a lot of creatives, I have a lot going on.
My passion is how do we make the world a better place for everyone? And that was one of my goals in starting this podcast is talking to story writers about the amazing thing that happens when we create stories, which is we can help new things come into the world because I believe that what we vision we can help make so.
So I love talking to other creatives, writers, futurists, and people who care about the future. And today I’m really excited to have a guest with us who is gonna talk about her book. And that pertains to these topics. I’m so excited.
[00:54] Guest Introduction: Abigail Hing WenSo Abigail, please join us in and if you wouldn’t, if you would please introduce yourself, that would be awesome.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me, Beth. I am Abigail Hing Wen. I’m an author and now filmmaker. And I have published five books. This is my fifth one, The Vale, that just came into the world on Tuesday, about a week ago. And um, it’s kind of exploding in all these different directions. There’s a Roblox game and there’s a short film prequel starring my childhood hero, Lea Salonga, and lots of good things.
So I’m excited to be sharing this book with the world.
BETH BARANY: Oh, wow. I am so excited to have you here with us.
[01:27] Abigail’s Journey with “The Vale”And if you could start out by saying like, what inspired you to write this book and also just for some context, if this is your fifth book, what are all your books? Middle grade, young, you know it’s middle grade, right?
Not young adult,
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Yeah. Although it reads up for sure. It’s a, there’s a lot of technology and there’s some, there’s some hardships of the family. But I actually wrote The Vale in 2015, so ten years ago, and it was actually the last book I wrote that was a drawer novel. So for those who don’t know what a drawer novel is, it’s the novels that you write that don’t get published that you have to shelve.
And, it was because it’s a story about a family that creates an AI generated virtual fantasy world, there was no market for it at the time, so my agent at the time said, you know, she couldn’t take it out. And I think that’s probably right, that nobody knew what AI generation was. So I ended up writing Loveboat Taipei and that was my breakout novel that became the movie “Love in Taipei” on Netflix.
And, um. Then with, you know, times changed. I had another book. I had four more books in the world. And so, I was able to kind of make edits to this one and adjust it, and the short film got underway. And so now ten years later, the world is ready, so I finally get to publish it.
BETH BARANY: Wow. I love that. So you’re, you’re a futurist too.
I mean, writing things that then get set aside. I too just resurrected a novel that I wrote ten years ago in, uh, this paranormal romantic suspense, kind of this global theme of women’s power and which is what I, one of the things I write about, but it’s like, oh, now I’m ready to work on this. I’m ready. Maybe the world’s ready. We’ll see, I’m still not a hundred percent sure.
Yeah. And so, you wrote it ten years ago and then just, it sounds like things just evolved that now just became the time that this book was ready to be born.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: That’s right. Yeah. Everyone knows what chat GPT is and, um, using chat bots and artificial intelligence.
So, there’s just more people that it’s relevant to.
BETH BARANY: Yeah. That is so interesting. So just a shout out to all you writers. Keep writing. You never know. Maybe if now is not the time for your book, then later. We don’t even know. Yeah.
My next question is: what do you hope that readers, and viewers, because you’ve got this short prequel film, what do you hope everyone is gonna take away from your project, from The Vale?
[03:40] The Concept of Clean AI and Ethical TechnologyABIGAIL HING WEN: So one of the things I am excited about with this Vale is that the family creates clean AI. So it’s AI that’s not been trained on copyright works, it’s been trained on their own works, their own art and works that are outta the copyright. So classics, fairytales, the Brothers Grimm, Arabian Knights and uh, the Magic Paintbrush where everything you paint comes to life.
And that is kind of like the world of The Vale. Everything that Bran creates in The Vale grows through AI and becomes real. So there’s a village of elves that evolve over time. There’s a blue forest that grows using the Fibonacci sequence behind it. Um, there’s a castle that he gets to build and decides everything he wants to do with it.
And so part of the hope is that, the, one of the stories that the Vale is good because the Lee family is good. And that is a theme of the story. Like we need ethical people to make ethical technology because the ones at the front lines of making technology are the ones making decisions about how this technology is built.
BETH BARANY: I love that so much. Two things you said: one clean AI and ethical technology. It’s so interesting ’cause the way I use AI, I use it inside of Notion and I trained it on my material and then I ask it to adapt from that. I’ve given it my guidelines, my brand voices. All the things.
So I purposely don’t use chat GPT because I’m like, that’s not okay. That’s, that’s based on stolen work. I wanna use the tool, but based on my own work.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Yeah.
BETH BARANY: And the work I feed it. So, uh, it’s, it’s a second brain cubed or something, ’cause I also feed it all my research notes and just anything that interests me just goes into this big pot.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: That’s amazing.
BETH BARANY: Yeah. My podcast notes, all my event things and the events I market for other people, you know, my friends and stuff as an affiliate or, my thoughts, my, my business journaling check-ins, and then I have some private things that I’ve gated away from the AI. I’m like, eh, yeah. I’m keeping that private.
This whole notion of clean AI, that’s such a wonderful idea for people to play with. and then your notion of, of ethical technology.
[05:35] Challenges and Ethics in AI DevelopmentI guess I have a side question to that, which is, how can we build ethical technology on top of the AI when the AIs were trained and created in basically, uh, unethical way?
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Mm-hmm. How can we build it? You know, that is a very, that’s like the million dollar question. It is very complicated. You’re right, these technologies are already built and there are lawsuits now, as you know. Um. Lib Live Gen has trained on my works, has trained on the works of many author friends that I know, and I know there are settlements that are going around, so it’s possible that with enough settlements that they’ll be able to button up things.
But what I do know is, um, a lot of the big tech companies, what they’re doing is they’re indemnifying, they’re saying like, if use our AI technologies, like, and you get in trouble, we’ll take care of you. So that also in some ways is a solution for the lay person, but it doesn’t really solve the bigger issue.
And I think it’s not a, it’s not an easy answer.
BETH BARANY: Yeah, it’s almost like that whole ethos of, um, break things. Or, you know, take action and ask for forgiveness later. Even that whole thing. So it’s like the, the ethical conversation, and this is, this could be its own show. I really need to do a show on ethics.
The ethical conversation of what underpins our technology, but also what underpins our economics.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Mm-hmm.
BETH BARANY: Political systems. I mean, it’s all, you could say, built on the backs of unpaid labor. Which is like, oh, we’re all exactly that, we’re all a product of that. So it’s like how do you rank wrangle with that as you, as you step into trying to create something ethically good.
I guess that’s a question for you too, and me.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Yeah. No, I, again, I don’t think there’s an easy answer. Um, but I think it’s small choices along the way. As you are developing these products, as you create them, like people need to be asking the questions so that they can try to choose. The routes that are, are for safety or for inclusion, and not take shortcuts.
I mean, that’s really what it kind of comes down to. Like it was easy to just take advantage of things that were out there and, and try to fix the problem later. But I think people who are forward thinking and, and can anticipate these things that, that, that makes a big difference. And just being in the room, having a seat at the table, and being able to use your discretion, like I think all that makes a big difference.
BETH BARANY: That’s really great. So it’s, it’s back to like critical thinking and kind of being really clear-eyed about what’s going on.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Right.
BETH BARANY: And also not naive, like it’s not a black and white situation. It, there’s a lot of nuance here.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Mm-hmm.
BETH BARANY: Yeah.
[07:56] Engaging with Young AudiencesSo how, um, can people support your project? ’cause I know like you’re in your car right now for those of you watching on YouTube and you’ve just done a school visit.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: I just had a school visit. It was so wonderful. It was to the fourth and fifth grade class of an elementary school, and we showed them the short film, which is about Bran. Um, my main character when he’s six, five, six years old, it’s, it’s called The Vale Origins and it’s about why this world was built in the first place.
So we showed them the short film in fifteen minutes, and then we had a Q and A and it was really fun. They were so engaged, so I definitely wanna do more school visits if folks are interested. Um, you can reach out to me. I’m pretty much like on social media or you can reach out to my assistant, which is just assist@abigailhingwen.com.
But I think getting word out. That’s really kind of our, our next big step. Getting word out for the book as widely as possible, um, and building from there.
BETH BARANY: That’s so great. And just for everyone listening, like when we say middle grade, we’re talking what, fourth graders, fifth graders.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Mm-hmm.
BETH BARANY: Um, also, what about middle school? Would they be interested in this or would they think, oh, it’s a little too young?
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Yeah, no middle school, my protagonist is thirteen, so it’s like Harry Potter age.
BETH BARANY: Okay.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: And I definitely feel like, like all my books, it can be read up because there’s so much about the technology and there’s a parent storyline. I actually wrote it Four-Quadrant the way a Disney movie would be made, so there’s, you know, older people, younger people, and everyone in between so that, that everyone can be engaged and the family can sit down and, and watch it together. So it’s similar for this book.
BETH BARANY: That’s great. And even a parent could read it to their child.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Absolutely.
BETH BARANY: Yeah. That’s really wonderful. And when you say Four-Quadrant, meaning like you have characters at all the age groups so that they all feel seen and heard and,
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Mm-hmm.
BETH BARANY: Story. Yeah. We have a little bit more time. I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about your.
[09:38] The Making of ‘The Vale’ Prequel Filmthe, how the film came about, how did the, the prequel come about? Can you tell us a bit about that?
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Yeah, so that,I had, I was, after Loveboat,Taipei, um, was made into a movie. I was meeting with producers in Hollywood and I happened to meet one that was at Netflix and he told me he did hybrid films that were half live action, half animation.
And that got my wheels turning ’cause I’m like, oh, I actually have a project like that. It’s a novel that I shelved. And you could see from the cover, the idea is that it’s half animation, half live action. And so I was like, I talked to my agent, like I could finish the book and maybe we could do something with it.
And so I did finish the book, but at the same time I was thinking about being a director and I was advised that the best way forward is to have a sample. So I,I thought about The Vale Origins. That was the most discreet story I had in my portfolio. I’m like, I could do that. And it would be a really fun proof of concept to show how it can go back and forth between the real world and the virtual world.
And so that’s how it started going and actually ended up having that off get, getting that off the ground before I even had the book deal.
BETH BARANY: Oh, that is so wonderful. I love how you have, you’re also, your creative wheels are in different domains as well. That’s so great.
[10:39] Where to Find ‘The Vale’ and Final ThoughtsAnd is there anything else, um, that you wanna share about your project?How long is the book? Where can people find the book? Can they just
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Yes
BETH BARANY: Buy it anywhere.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: The book is available pretty much everywhere books are sold. Um, you can get it like, you know, Barnes and Noble’s picked my very first novel as a young adult book club pick. So I always love supporting Barnes and Noble.
Um, the indie stores also can carry it. You can order from them or some of ’em have it in store. And then of course Amazon, Books A Million. It’s pretty much everywhere. So you can, you’ll be able to find it.
BETH BARANY: That’s so great. That’s wonderful.
[11:09] Conclusion and Future VisionSo as we wrap up today, I always like to ask people, um, since this is a podcast about the future is what does it mean for you to write the future?
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Ah, great question. I love fiction because you can imagine a better world and, you know, you can imagine a worse world too, that those are dystopian novels. But for me, I, I try to write worlds that I believe are attainable, and that I think we can aspire towards. And so The Vale is a book about, kind, good hearted people that create technology that is also kind and good hearted.
And I think that is a very reachable dream. And part of my hope is that our future engineers and scientists and ethicists and thought leaders who are reading my books, um, today will go forth and make a better world for all of us.
BETH BARANY: I love that. I love that so much. I believe fiction, I mean, it shapes our imagination and it shapes who we think we can become, so thank you for putting that vision out into the world.
Uh, well I just wanna thank you so much, Abigail, for being a guest on How To Write The Future.
So, it’s so fun to see you in your car. Like you’re on your way.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Exactly how it is. This is how life is.
BETH BARANY: Yeah. So great. So thank you so much for being a guest on How To Write The Future.
ABIGAIL HING WEN: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Beth.
BETH BARANY: All right everyone. That’s it for this week. Write long and prosper.
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