Brian Solis on Mindshift: Reimagining Customer Experience in the Age of AI

In this episode, we welcome Brian Solis, Head of Global Innovation at ServiceNow, a nine-time best-selling author, keynote speaker, and digital futurist. Starting the conversation, Brian shares the inspiration behind his latest book, “Mindshift“, and emphasizes the importance of empathy and a truly customer-centric mindset. Through examples from Amazon, Disney, and IKEA, Brian illustrates how organizations can create meaningful and memorable experiences that drive both loyalty and growth.

The conversation also explores the evolving role of AI, shifting from automation and cost savings to augmenting human interactions and delivering personalization. Finally, Brian calls on leaders to embrace innovation, cultivate empathy, and invest in customer experience as a catalyst for transformation and long-term success!

[00:31] Guest Introduction

[02:00] The Concept behind “Mindshift”

[04:07] Empathy and Customer-Centric Approach

[13:30] The Role of AI in Customer Experience

[26:34] Developing Leadership Skills for Customer Experience

[31:25] The Future of AI in Customer and Employee Experience

Transcript0:00[Music] Welcome to be customer-led, where we’ll explore how leading experts in customer0:08

and employee experience are navigating organizations through their own journey

0:14

to be customer-led and the actions and behaviors employees and businesses

0:20

exhibit to get there. And now, your host, Maru Brown.

0:29[Music] Hi everyone and thanks for tuning in to another episode of Be Customerled.0:37

Boy, do we have a treat for you. Today we have Brian Solless, one of the

0:43

leading authorities on how to navigate technologydriven disruptive change so that it doesn’t overwhelm you or derail

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you, but instead it delivers exceptional value for your business. Now, Brian has

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so many accolades, I could take up half the program just listing them, but we won’t do that. So, I’ll just give you a

1:01

few. He’s a nine times best-selling author, including his latest book, Mind Shift: Transform Leadership, Drive

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Innovation, and Reshape the Future. We’re going to talk about that some today. He’s also an international

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keynote speaker and he’s a renowned expert on the future of technology and business trends with more than 60

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research papers published in leading publications like Forbes and CIO magazine and Fast Company. Welcome to

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the program, Brian. Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thank you for that uh generous introduction.

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Well, we’re really glad to have you and excited about uh what we’re going to

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talk about. And you know, to write a book, I mean, I’ve written a couple myself, so I know you got to have fire

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in your belly to write a book, especially when you you’re holding down a full-time job, you know, at the same

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time. And you’ve done it nine times, right? So, tell me, what was the fire in your belly that got you to write Mind

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Shift? That’s going to be a whole program right there, but I’ll do my best to keep it uh to keep it short. Yeah. I

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love the way you described it, fire in your belly, because that one was

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certainly hot. Uh and it was burning for a long time. I just had watched massive

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disruptive waves crash over and over and over again. Uh and there are specific

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events that that really drove this, but let’s just say more recently with the

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pandemic, uh the climate change, uh artificial intelligence, just the incredible

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disconnect that’s happening between people and technology and disinformation. I

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mean, we’ve got no shortage of disruptions, right? Yeah. Just all of these things. And and I think the one pattern that they all

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have is that we generally whether as a business or as a society or as

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governments, we don’t see them as disruptions. We see them as let’s try to understand them and let’s put them into

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the box of business as usual. Uh and I think artificial intelligence of all of

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them is the one where we could start by putting it in the box of of uh business as usual like i.e. automation, chat

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bots, etc. But it is going to require absolute transformation because it

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allows us to do something that other disruptions haven’t given us. And that is the ability to do what we didn’t do

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yesterday. Whereas we tend to look at every disruptive wave as how can we use

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this to do what we did or navigate what we did yesterday better tomorrow. I I guess the the the uh the pandemic was

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one of those disruptions that made us realize that we had to fundamentally shift how we think about some things

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because you couldn’t just do things uh the the same way that that you have done before, right? But hey, listen. Uh what

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are some of the give me one or two of the key takeaways you want for people to to to take from mind shift? We’ll jump

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in right there and then we’ll start, you know, digging deeper into some of these things. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let’s put it

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into the context of your audience. To be customerled, a mind shift is to see something, to

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recognize something that you couldn’t see before that you give yourself the

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space to explore what you didn’t see before to then inspire new ideas, new

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opportunities, and new ways forward. I think that’s the mind shift in its most simplistic sense. But what it’s really

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calling for is a new generation of leaders. I think we’re often waiting for someone to tell us what to do. We’re

4:41

often waiting for that leader to guide us, kind of give us the insights around like for example, what do we need to know about AI so we know we can move

4:47

forward together. But I actually believe that this is a moment that we are that leader. We need to become that leader.

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We need to convince ourselves that if we’re waiting for someone to tell us what to do, we might be on the wrong side of innovation. Uh and so one of the

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biggest takeaways for the book or is to recognize that as you’re reading it, you

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are that leader even if it’s not a role or a title or a hierarchy that you have

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a voice in how to shape the future. So for example, if you think about the

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pandemic, we saw overnight transformations uh for customer centric

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technologies like e-commerce or curbside pickup for example. uh suddenly

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everything needed to be digital and mobile so that the customer could get in contact with your business. Uh the same

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thing happened for employees. They had to be able to work from home. And so that sudden shift shouldn’t have taken a

5:43

pandemic to accelerate that digital accessibility and that digital engagement because it had been happening

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for a long time. Same is true for artificial intelligence. The only wave

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of AI that’s new to us is generative AI. uh and because it was consumerfacing

6:00

technology this time it blew up in terms of adoption and disruption. So when when

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I think about being customer-led the mind shift for me is that customer should always be front and center. How

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is that customer different than me? How is their day-to-day life or their

6:20

day-to-day work different in the day in the life of to the my day in the life

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of? So, for example, as someone who’s worked in CX, uh someone who’s worked in marketing, someone who’s worked in

6:31

business transformation, it’s always an inside out job, meaning

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I’ve got my processes, I’ve got my systems, I’ve got my budgets and resources and all of the constraints that come with it. We have a way of

6:43

working and when something new comes along, we try to bring it into this system and bolt it on, plug it in, uh

6:50

and create new touch points, for example. But it’s not it’s not anything that it’s truly customer-led or

6:56

customer- centered. So if I step back and I look at my mind shift and I think

7:03

all right well what am I not seeing? Well for example we know the customer 70% to 80% of all decisions start right

7:10

here and they don’t always end there because something’s broken in the

7:16

process. Uh and that is an opportunity for us to say well how do they want to make a decision? How do they how are

7:21

they influenced? What’s intuitive to them? Uh how does their brain work? For example, if you if you look at a Tik Tok

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user and you put them on a regular website with with forms and chat bots, that’s that’s just a different brain. So

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I think about it I think about I know it’s a long answer, but I’ll I’ll come to the end here. I think about it this

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way. To be customer led is to be empathetic. And to be empathetic is to see the world as your customer sees it

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and let it inspire you. And then go back to your journey. go back to your your processes, your systems to see what’s

7:54

not in alignment with them. Well, you know, it it it’s kind of interesting because I wrote a book of my

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own called uh a blueprint for customer obsession where I laid out these principles of customer obsession. And

8:05

one of them is to give customers what they want before they know they need it,

8:10

right? You think about some things that that you know have done that. I mean, like, uh, who ever thought that you’d be

8:17

using your watch a as part of your your navigation in your car, right? Because

8:22

it’s it’s kind of pinging you when it’s time for you to make a turn or or maybe your watch using, you know, helping you

8:29

with uh health things like, you know, your heart rate and all of those kinds of things. That was giving customers

8:35

something that that they wanted before they knew they even needed. And I and and I’m thinking like the principles

8:41

that you have in mind shift, how can that help companies like deliver on that

8:47

that you know tenant of of customer obsession? How how can it help people unlock the ability to give customers

8:54

what they want before they know they need it? It’s a philosophy that is is both

9:00

wonderful but also difficult. And what makes it difficult is is the

9:06

lack of empathy. And it’s not that people don’t care. It’s just that we’re we’re human beings and

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we have biases. And those biases are really how we see the world versus how someone else sees the world. Uh as an

9:20

executive, I have I have my my constraints. I have my politics. I have things I have to try to navigate. And I

9:26

try to do my best within that paradigm to deliver for the customer. But if I’m

9:32

not taking the time to understand life from the customer’s perspective,

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then I’m never I’m never going to be able to see the challenges they have, the struggles that they have, and to

9:46

introduce new opportunities for them to better experience something or to better

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do something in a way that becomes refreshing.

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That’s something that they they can’t live without. So if you think about how Steve Jobs approached it, we could go

10:02

back to the Xerox days where he discovered the mouse or he discovered

10:07

graphical user interface. He didn’t invent them. He just saw that it could make the lives

10:13

easier for someone who was using a computer for the first time. Those were not intuitive. They were DOSsbased, very

10:21

difficult. and he recognized that if I could if I could unlock the power of

10:26

these machines so that the everyday person could embrace them, then that would be magical. Uh, and that same way

10:33

with Disney with his cartoons and the and Snow White, the first uh animated motion picture. Nobody was waiting

10:40

around for an hour and a half cartoon until he gave it to them. But he studied he studied how people can be engaged uh

10:47

and and and how and and and what they might be lacking in their day-to-day life. So he stepped out of his world and

10:54

into theirs. That’s the mind shift. The first few chapters are really about how do you get out of your own mind so that

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you can embrace a beginner’s mind so that you can see things as if it was a new because when you can see things like

11:05

with childlike wonder, everything becomes possible. Maybe even too much. Uh so but that that’s the opportunity

11:14

and one of the analogies I love to use uh it’s an old show. I don’t know if you ever used to watch it, Undercover Boss.

11:19

Yeah. Yeah. That is that is for me the manifestation of empathy because what ends up

11:26

happening this the stories are always the same. somebody at the top

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goes into disguise, whether it’s working uh in the back of the store room or it’s

11:37

working on the front line with other with other employees or it’s actually being the customer. Then they actually

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see and feel what it’s like to be someone else. And then they can’t unsee

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it. They can’t unfeill it. And everything changes by the end of the episode. There’s crying, there’s

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laughter, there’s applause because now suddenly we were one. We were together. And that that’s the

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power of that mind shift. Well, you know, it’s interesting because I I’ll give you one that doesn’t even require

12:09

you to to be undercover, right? So, uh Jeff Bezos was uh taking calls in in a

12:15

contact center. a call came in and you know the the customer’s information

12:20

popped up on the screen and and the the rep sitting next to him says, “Well, they’re going to want to return that.”

12:27

And sure enough, that’s what the customer wanted. And he he was like, “Well, you know, how’d you know that?”

12:33

And she says, “Well, you know, I see that all the time. They they always want to return that, right?” And uh it was

12:40

like okay something’s wrong with that picture because you should have a way to communicate that so we can stop that

12:45

from happening right and that gave rise to you know uh something called the

12:50

andon cord at Amazon you know something that I had I got the privilege of

12:56

running for a while but that that was an innovation that made it possible for us to take down things that were were

13:01

causing issues uh for for customers so that we could fix them systemically right and and I think that kind of lines

13:08

up with with with what you’re describing. But so what do you think of this notion then that if people work

13:16

backwards from the customer or they work backwards from the employee, they would

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identify some of the most innovative and some of the most disruptive disruptive opportunities to utilize AI in their

13:29

environments. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So if you think about the box of business as usual

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uh with AI, what we’re seeing right now out of uh out of the box is automation. Let’s take out costs. Let’s increase

13:42

efficiencies and scale. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s sound business thinking. So I don’t want to I don’t

13:47

want to tell anyone that they’re not doing the right thing. You have to do that. But now

13:52

that becomes the new AI powered status quo, right? Everybody’s doing that. So what are you going to do differently?

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And if we take that customer centric approach, how does the customer experience this? Well, let’s let’s go

14:08

back to the good old days of contact centers, decision trees, and automated

14:13

systems and IVRs. No customer to this day wakes up and says, “Boy, I cannot wait to call a contact center and talk

14:20

to a machine where I have to scream representative 30,000 times until I can talk to a human being.” No customer ever

14:27

says that. It sucks. It’s a horrible experience. But businesses do it because it saves costs. It’s efficient. It still

14:33

gets them hopefully to the outcome that they need. But all of these things, including AI powered automation, comes

14:39

at the cost of the customer’s experience. And I always I always put

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that apostrophe s. It’s the customer’s experience, not customer experience, it’s theirs.

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And so that’s a that’s a mind shift for me to constantly remind myself that I am not the customer. So if you take Tik Tok

14:59

for example, say we have someone who is actively looking using Tik Tok,

15:04

constantly scrolling. One of the things that happens to their brain is that it moves so much faster than the normal

15:12

brain uh for better or worse. So they listen to podcasts, they watch videos at 1.2

15:18

1.5x speed because that’s just the way that their brain’s working. They’re consuming much more information. And now

15:25

you put that brain into your customer journey and you are going to find parts

15:31

where they are just going to break down or get frustrated or feel horrible. Um,

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and so I say that because what you’re looking to do is to deliver a better

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experience. That word itself is something I think we take for granted in in the world of customer service,

15:47

customer experience, customer marketing. Experience is actually an emotion. It’s

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not a series of transactions. It’s not technology. It’s just an emotional reaction to at any given moment. And

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there are only two experiences that people will remember. Experiences that are amazing and experiences that suck.

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And and you got to ask yourself, what are you designing for? Uh because most of the time we’re just we’re designing

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for the forgettable or worse, the ones that are awful. And that for me is that

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mind shift. How can I use AI? How can I use technology to deliver a more

16:27

meaningful, relevant experience that people will remember in

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some way, shape or form. And that I learned all of that uh by studying

16:38

Disney Imagineers. Yeah. Yeah. that that that actually is one of the things that uh I spent some

16:45

time on uh in blueprint for customer obsession. I delved into how Walt Disney

16:51

pioneered the Disney method with if it can be dreamt, it can be built and how

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he allowed himself to pursue ideas that others would have found to be fantastical or even preposterous. And he

17:03

kicked the tires on those things and it led to some amazing stuff. So tell me

17:09

about what you’ve learned from the Disney Imagineers and how folks can can use that to to have a mind shift about

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how they tackle some of these things like AI. Oh wow. Well, first of all, I love that

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message. To this day, I still have two mentors as part of my AI. Uh, one is

17:29

Steve Jobs and the other one is Walt Disney. I use them as personas for inspiration as I think about um getting

17:36

that type of push that type of inspiration and motivations because it’s it’s very easy to fall into complacency.

17:45

It’s very easy to fall into the trap of well we can’t do that. Uh we’ll never make that happen. There’s no resources.

17:52

How are we going to get budget? This is the way it’s always been done. But what I learned from Imagineers is just that

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one is that fantastical is the aspiration,

18:03

but more so uh one of the things that I learned Joe Roie was a was a big inspiration of mine as well. He’s a

18:10

former Imagineer was to remember the person on the other

18:16

side of the experience. Coming from Silicon Valley, it’s very easy to get caught up in the tech and and and and

18:23

the amazing capabilities that you couldn’t do before. And but it’s it’s also important to remember that someone

18:29

on the other side is going to use it, experience it, to feel it, to to

18:34

remember it. And those those lessons that I that I that I got from the Imagineering the Imagineers reminded me

18:42

that you have to design for those emotions. In fact, Joe Roie u he famously said that if you design an

18:51

experience it has to be extraordinary because if it’s not extraordinary it’s

18:56

forgettable and that was that was powerful uh to me and so what I

19:02

translated that into is in the study of psychology and the study of experience

19:08

itself which is the word means how you feel in a particular moment how I’m

19:14

experiencing this right now is is how I’m feeling about it. And how I’m feeling about it is how I’m going to

19:21

remember it or how I’m not going to remember it. And there the there are two experiences that people remember,

19:28

experiences that are wonderful and experiences that suck. And so being here in Southern California, I have a Disney

19:35

pass and I go to Disney of one because my my my daughters love it, but two

19:40

because I I want to I want to touch that magic. I want to remind myself of what that experience is like. And so I know this is a long answer to your question,

19:47

but the Imagineers who designed the Disney experiences at the park go

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through painstaking detail around the the the trees, the paint to hide things

19:58

to make you feel like you’re immersed in a completely different world where outside of that park is Anaheim, for

20:04

example. You don’t see it, you don’t hear it, you don’t feel it. But even the concrete and the things that they put in

20:10

the concrete, the trash cans, everything goes to this this incredible amount of detail. So that the experience you feel

20:17

and the experience you remember is by design. And so when we talk about

20:22

customer experience or CX, we forget that that X, that word experience is

20:28

about how people feel on the other side of a touch point. How people feel along the way of a journey, how people feel

20:35

after they become a customer. So, for example, we take experience out of the equation. We automate, we put chat bots

20:43

in place. We we put automation systems in place so that you’re never talking to

20:49

a human being or at least getting a human-like experience. Why? Because it’s

20:54

expensive to serve a customer. So, therefore, uh we have to look for ways to take costs out at the expense of your

21:01

experience, which is ironic. So I think about Peter Ducker who who famously said

21:07

that the purpose of a business is to create and keep a customer. It is more expensive to lose a customer and have to

21:14

get another customer than it is to keep that customer and to keep that customer happy. And I’d love to see CX

21:19

professionals earn a seat at the seauite table to remind leaders that when you

21:25

invest in experience, you get it back in ways that go beyond NPS, in ways that go

21:32

beyond advocacy. You get growth. And if you can cultivate that relationship, you

21:39

have a you don’t just have a customer for life. you have a customer who is

21:44

spending more time and more of their resources with you. And that is another

21:49

thing that I’ve learned from Disney, especially going to the parks cuz it’s getting more and more expensive. But but

21:55

I I I love it and they love it and the memories we have together are appreciative of those experiences that

22:02

are designed and the memories that they create. You know, the interesting thing is that they call it the most magical place on

22:08

earth. You know, some people would say you can’t sustain that level of

22:15

excitement over and over and over and over and somehow they seem to do it,

22:22

right? And other businesses seem to do it. I mean, like, you know, Chick-fil-A has this notion of what they call the

22:27

second mile, right? and and so their folks are basically

22:33

um you know trained that you don’t just deliver what the customer asks for, you

22:39

give something over and above. What is that thing that you give as your second

22:44

mile thing and obviously Chick-fil-A has a religious bent and and they take that

22:50

right out of a place where Jesus said, “Hey, if somebody tells you to go with you one mile, go with them too.” and and

22:56

and so they actually are basing it on that and telling their folks, hey, listen, don’t just do what the person asked you

23:03

to do. Do something extra. And that of course creates that specialness in the

23:09

experience for you, right? I open the door for you and I put an umbrella over your head to take you out to the car so

23:15

you don’t have to walk in the rain, you know? I come over and fill your cup or something like that. So, and it’s in the

23:21

same spirit of what the Imagineers do and what you just described, right?

23:27

Can I just build on that real quick cuz you reminded me of something. Um, it’s also it’s not just the Imagineers, it’s

23:33

the cast members at the park who find special ways to make you feel like you

23:38

that you matter. Uh, I used to actually do work with Chick-fil-A and the experience team and I remember I had an

23:46

observation role just kind of sitting in the restaurant and watching watching a manager and the manager’s team do

23:54

exactly what you what you just described, the second mile. It was magical to watch it. There’s the the

23:59

food is one one thing, but people come back for that experience.

24:04

They want to feel like they felt that day again. Uh and that’s and that’s what you want. Uh and

24:11

the thing about that is as a leader you have to do two things. One, I get that you have a P&L, but if you can drive

24:19

growth by delivering better experiences, Allah Disney or Chick-fil-A, we know

24:26

from a business standpoint, it works. You just have to want to do that. And

24:31

then also, you have to hire the people who want to do that. And you have you have to measure them for doing that and

24:39

you have to reward them for doing that because if if you do not it is very easy

24:45

to get caught up in the transaction of the business and that’s where most

24:50

businesses fall down. Most customer journeys are incredibly transactional. They’re connected. Well, they’re not a

24:56

connected, but they are a string of touch points all with different

25:01

measures, all run from different groups. And therefore, that that second mile can

25:07

never be integrated across the whole experience unless you want it to. And

25:12

that that is where I think the controldelete moment needs to happen. What kind of experience do you want to

25:18

deliver? Do you value your customer? And do you believe that if you invest in your customers experience and that

25:24

relationship that you will make that back multiffold versus it being a cost

25:30

setter? How do you help leaders hone or or develop their skills around um you

25:38

know this this ability to to kind of go after go after these things. But I think

25:44

in some businesses the whole notion of of bringing forward even some of these

25:49

types of ideas gets shut down very fast. I mean I imagine you know like in

25:54

another business when somebody came up with the whole idea of cashierless checkout which you know Amazon kind of

26:01

like brought to the four somebody might have been shut down right out of the gate and like what are you talking about

26:07

cashierless checkout? But in a company like Amazon and me having been on the inside, I understand exactly how that

26:14

does not get shut down and how it rises to the top. How can you help leaders to develop this and you know do you do you

26:22

deal with that a bit in mind shift? Well, thank you for asking and uh the

26:27

mind shift is really about the journey of opening your mind,

26:33

changing your mind. Mhm. but more importantly to allow

26:38

yourself to receive the types of signals you were not able to receive before. So, for example, if I

26:46

was sitting in a Chick-fil-A and I was watching the manager and the manager’s team walk around the restaurant and do

26:52

something very nice for someone who’s sitting there, like offer to refill their cup or to put a little special

26:59

thing down on the table as a as a reward of a reward of recognition, for example.

27:04

Those are things that I might not have seen if I weren’t ready to see them. I might have just seen a busy restaurant.

27:10

I might have just seen people happily enjoying their lunch or their dinner. Um, but when when you have a a more open

27:16

mind and you’re ready to receive like the gifts that you see all around you, those are the things that inspire you to

27:22

want to do things differently, to want to to add your touch, your flavor to

27:28

that opportunity that you didn’t see before. And then you start seeing trends differently and how you might react to

27:34

those trends. And so that’s the whole idea of of what it means to to to go

27:39

through that mind shift journey. Now the way that I have to help executives sort

27:45

of have their own mind shift is we have to start from a place of of awareness.

27:53

And not to get too philosophical here but most of us are not self-aware. There’s a saying uh Anniian I believe is

28:01

who said this uh we don’t see the world as it is. We see the world as we are. And so when we see the world as we are,

28:07

we tend to miss all of those special things because we’re busy achieving the goals and the pressures and running from

28:14

meeting to meeting and all of the things that that we do that comprise our day in order for us to deliver the type of

28:21

success that we’re we’re being measured for. So, I got to take that I got to

28:26

take that person out of that mix and I have to inspire them in a way that they didn’t know they could be inspired. So,

28:34

let’s talk about that that that cashierless checkout experience. So, for

28:39

example, with one with one of the retailers that pioneered that, not Amazon, I worked with executives

28:47

uh to shop in their own stores. They hadn’t done that actually in a long

28:54

time. And I gave them homework. Different types of personas would need

28:59

different types of things. And they all took on that type of persona to shop for

29:05

those things, to ask for help, to or try to ask for help uh and then to check out

29:11

and then to come back and talk about what that experience was like. And the first thing that was really interesting

29:18

to me was that they just didn’t want to do it and hadn’t done it in a long time.

29:25

And then afterwards, it’s like any team building exercise, I suppose. It’s like, ah, maybe you were you were trepidacious

29:31

of actually doing it. And then afterwards, it’s like, oh my gosh, that was amazing. It brought us closer together. Uh, and so once they feel what

29:38

that experience is like, you can’t unfeill it. You can’t unsee it. And so that led to innovations in in selfch

29:44

checkout. That led to innovations in experience. That led to innovations in in having someone there to help you when

29:50

you need it and how they approach you. Like maybe a cast member might approach you at Disney or how someone might

29:56

approach you in Chick-fil-A. So these are things that they almost have to experience for themselves. And then

30:02

that’s that’s one part of it. The other part is you still have to speak the language of the business. So it’s one thing to be an advocate for the customer

30:09

or the voice of the customer. The other thing is to tie everything that you’re saying into the language of the business

30:14

so that not only are you helping the customer get a better experience, but you’re demonstrating how doing so

30:20

impacts the business positively. So that there I I I hate to say this, but that so that there is actual ROI that all of

30:29

all of the leaders can then understand that we’re making this investment for something beyond just goosebumps.

30:36

Cool. One of the things we got to do be before we we finish this off, we got to

30:41

talk about the AI aspects of this and and you you you’ve hit on that a little bit, but I I’m wondering what do you see

30:48

as you know some of the best opportunities for AI to to really help disrupt the

30:56

status quo in the customer and the employee experience. And you know, like we’re we’re we’re thinking about mind

31:02

shifts and I just feel like we can plant the seed for people so that they can have some ideas about how to do that.

31:08

We’re obviously not going to exhaust that, but any thoughts on that subject? Oh, you boy, where do I start? I mean,

31:16

we’re we’re using AI in the way that we’ve used every technology revolution.

31:22

It’s in particular CX. Think about the IVR. um when you used to call a human

31:28

being then that got outsourced then the IVR came in and I there’s a joke like

31:34

the test of anyone’s true character is how you how you react as you’re trying to get a human being when you call

31:40

customer service uh operator representative a uh and if you if you if

31:48

you Google something like uh like an image search uh for customer service a lot of the images are someone screaming

31:54

into the phone But it is sort of the the use of technology, not sort of, it is

31:59

the use of technology to get further away from people. And I and I want people to hear that. Like that’s exactly

32:05

what you’re doing. You’re getting further away from people. And if you do it without trying to put some Disney

32:11

magic in the moment, in that touch point, even with technology, then you’re also doing it at the cost of how they

32:17

feel and what they remember. Okay. Yeah, you know, let me let me just throw in something here because I I I

32:24

think of Intel inside. You know, you remember Intel inside the Pentium chip.

32:30

Yeah. And I I I I always think that, you know, with AI, there’s got to be almost

32:36

like a sticker that says human inside because you got to bring that working backwards, you know, from the customer

32:43

and the human element into how AI is deployed so that people can feel like,

32:48

oh, somebody thought through this for me before they deployed this, right? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Cuz nobody wakes up

32:56

and says, “Boy, I can’t wait to call customer service today or I can’t wait to talk to a chatbot today.” You even if

33:03

you talk to a chatbot and you and you train it to be more personal or you train it to ask questions to make

33:10

someone feel a little bit more at ease or that you you’re you you remind them of how important they are. there are

33:17

nuances that you can design into the script or into the or into the model that are not only human but make someone

33:25

feel special. So that’s that’s really all we have to do with AI. I mean it’s it’s inevitable we’re here we’re going

33:31

to use it to automate but we could also use it to augment. And so I’ll give you an example the IKEA story. I don’t know

33:37

if we talked about this behind the scenes, but the IKEA story, they in they

33:42

implemented a chatbot for customer service uh with the intention of like many contact centers to deflect. What

33:50

they did was the deflection was so effective. I think that they actually deflected 47% of inbounds, which was wow

33:58

pretty pretty big number. So they could have said, “Wow, that’s fantastic. We automated customer service. People seem

34:05

to like it.” And so maybe we don’t need these agents anymore and let’s take out costs, you know, because that’s what

34:11

customer service is. It’s a cost center. But instead, they looked at the other 53%. What are those what are those

34:18

customers not getting? What can’t we deliver? And they realized that actually

34:23

there’s a lot of opportunity for interior design. People had questions about the furniture or the design for

34:29

their office or for their home. And so what they did was they reskilled those agents to become interior designers and

34:37

they delivered a new type of service to the customer that actually generated revenue. So you save while still giving

34:44

a good experience and you deliver a new experience that that I think generated a billion euro in the in its first year.

34:51

That’s that’s an incredible story with the customer experience elevating as a

34:56

result too. Yep. That that is cool. And I’ve I’ve seen some things out there that that are

35:03

are pretty incredible that are um you know in the augmentation space like

35:08

where uh people are actually um where where where they’re they’re using

35:14

simulations to to train agents that that get agents,

35:20

you know, to the customers faster, more experienced, more ready. you know, I’ve

35:25

seen a number of different things that have been in the augmentation space that have uh that that have been uh super

35:32

helpful. Um and uh I know that there will be more disruptions. One that I

35:37

don’t think anybody ever thought about was uh you know using AI to actually um

35:43

score uh phones that were being uh traded in and so they could give more

35:49

accurate scoring on how to value those and and everything like that.

35:54

Well, look, uh, Brian, it’s been a pleasure talking to you about the mind shift and and all the different ways

36:01

that comes to life. You know, for for people who want to get in touch with you, maybe they want to continue this

36:07

conversation. What’s the best way for them to do that? Well, I’m pretty much at Brian Soloulless on all your favorite

36:13

platforms and then also Brians.com is is a good is a good hub or LinkedIn, I

36:20

suppose, is also is also good. I would love I’d love for you to read mind shift. Uh it is a book that basically

36:27

says we need a new type of leader especially in an era of AI so that we don’t just do we don’t just use

36:33

technology and every wave of of technology that’s to come that we that

36:38

we react to it in the ways that we’ve always reacted to it. instead that we start to get a little bit of foresight

36:45

and we start to put experience into the mix for employees and for customers and we start to be the type of leader that’s

36:51

looking forward and looking for ways to unlock new value and unlock new

36:57

experiences. So, I I just wanted to say Marmu, thank you for the opportunity to be part of this conversation and uh I

37:04

now have a another uh another Disney friend uh in the mix uh and to bring

37:10

that magic uh everywhere. Well, thank you. I certainly appreciate you uh making the time to join us on the

37:16

program. I’m sure that folks who have listened in have uh gotten some things

37:22

that they can take away, that they can go and that they can use right away. And thank you to all of you folks who have

37:28

have tuned in to to listen to this. Unfortunately, we’re going to have to wrap it up here for today. But please

37:34

come back again because we’re going to have another exciting program for you next time. But for now, that’s all and

37:42

uh look forward to you joining us again. Thank you, Brian. Thank you.

37:48

Thanks for listening to Be Customer with Maru Brown. We are grateful to our

37:54

audience for the gift of their time. Be sure to visit us at becussled.com

38:00

for more episodes. Leave us feedback on how we’re doing or tell us what you want to hear more about. Until next time,

38:08

we’re out.

 

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