Legendary Inventor Danny Hillis (Plus Kevin Kelly) — Unorthodox Lessons from 400+ Patents, Solving the Impossible, Real Al vs. “AI,” Hiring Richard Feynman, Working with Steve Jobs, Creating Parallel Computing, and Much More (#782)
Danny Hillis is an inventor, scientist, author, and engineer. While completing his doctorate at MIT, he pioneered the parallel computers that are the basis for the processors used for AI and most high-performance computer chips. He has more than 400 issued patents, covering parallel computers; disk arrays; cancer diagnostics and treatment; various electronic, optical, and mechanical devices; and the pinch-to-zoom display interface. He is a co-founder of The Long Now Foundation and the designer of its 10,000-year mechanical clock.
Danny has founded multiple companies, but his only regular job was as the first Disney Fellow at Disney Imagineering. He has published scientific papers in Science, Nature, Modern Biology, and International Journal of Theoretical Physics and written extensively on technology for Newsweek, Wired, and Scientific American. He is the author of The Pattern on the Stone: The Simple Ideas That Make Computers Work and Connection Machine. He is now a founding partner with Applied Invention, working on new ideas in cybersecurity, medicine, and agriculture.
Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is the founding executive editor of WIRED magazine, the former editor and publisher of the Whole Earth Review, and a bestselling author of books on technology and culture, including Excellent Advice for Living; The Inevitable; What Technology Wants; and Vanishing Asia, his three-volume photo-book set that captures West, Central, and East Asia. Kevin is the author of the popular essay “1000 True Fans.” Subscribe to Kevin’s newsletter, Recomendo, at recomendo.com. Every edition features 6 brief personal recommendations of cool stuff.
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Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercast#782: Legendary Inventor Danny Hillis (Plus Kevin Kelly) — Unorthodox Lessons from 400+ Patents, Solving the Impossible, Real Al vs. 'AI', Hiring Richard Feynman, Working with Steve Jobs, Creating Parallel Computing, and Much MoreThis episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep, and heat is my personal nemesis. I’ve suffered for decades, tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling them back on, and repeating ad nauseam. But a few years ago, I started using the Pod Cover, and it has transformed my sleep. Eight Sleep has launched their newest generation of the Pod: Pod 4 Ultra. It cools, it heats, and now it elevates, automatically. With the best temperature performance to date, Pod 4 Ultra ensures you and your partner stay cool in the heat and cozy warm in the cold. Plus, it automatically tracks your sleep time, snoring, sleep stages, and HRV, all with high precision. For example, their heart rate tracking is at an incredible 99% accuracy.
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Want to hear the last time Kevin Kelly was on this show? Listen to our conversation here in which we discussed Kevin’s long bet against the human population, resurrecting extinct species, active optimism vs. passive optimism, Kevin’s $20 time machine, the “dumbsmarten” future of AI, tips for traveling with children, the joys of being a tourist in one’s own town, sabbaticals, and much more.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Danny Hillis:Connect with Kevin Kelly:Website | Twitter | Instagram | YouTube
A Multidisciplinary Innovation Company | Applied Invention Six Brief Personal Recommendations of Cool Stuff | Recomendo Interview of Kevin Kelly, Co-Founder of WIRED, Polymath, Most Interesting Man In The World? | The Tim Ferriss Show #25, #26, & #27Stewart Brand – The Polymath of Polymaths | The Tim Ferriss Show #281Sierra Diablo Mountain Range | 10,000-Year ClockNatra Mogen Clamp | eBayW. Daniel Hillis: Becoming a Disney Fellow | Web of StoriesDefense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)World Leader in Artificial Intelligence Computing | NVIDIAMoore’s Law | IntelSun Microsystems | WikipediaFive Facts You May Not Know About Disney and Dali’s Lost Project ‘Destino’ | Park West GalleryDisney Online | Disney WikiHow to Do a Tombstone Rubbing | ThoughtCo.The Steve Jobs Effect: Why We Need Visionary Founders and Professional Leaders (Who Are a Little of Both) | Inc.Thinking Machines Corporation | WikipediaWhat Is Parallel Computing? | IBMDanny Hillis: The Biological Connection (Excerpt from Out of Their Minds) | NYUIntelligence as an Emergent Behavior or, The Songs of Eden | The Long NowAmdahl’s Law: Understanding the Basics | SplunkA New Identity-Aware Network Security Layer | ZPRIsland by Aldous Huxley | AmazonOcean’s Eleven (2001) | Prime VideoLogo History | Logo FoundationW. Daniel Hillis: Programming Slot Machine | Web of StoriesTinkertoy Computer | Computer History MuseumA Modern, Open-Source Smalltalk Programming System | SqueakHow Feynman Diagrams Almost Saved Space | Quanta MagazineQuantum Electrodynamics | FermilabComprehensive Cancer Information | National Cancer InstituteDanny Hillis: Understanding Cancer Through Proteomics | TED TalkDavid Agus: A New Strategy in the War on Cancer | TED TalkTalking with Walt Disney | The Disney ConnectionLife on the Pond | Mount Grace Land Conservation TrustPermaculture: You’ve Heard of It, But What the Heck Is It? | Modern FarmerTL;DR Shorts: Dr. Danny Hillis on the Automated Future of Research | Digital ScienceThe Alliance for Learning Innovation | ALIThe Big AI Research DARPA Is Funding This Year | Defense OneDr. William Hillis: Man on a Mission | Baylor College of Arts & SciencesW. Daniel Hillis: My Father Was a Doctor | Web of StoriesThe Wonderful Flight to the Mushroom Planet by Eleanor Cameron | AmazonThe Pros and Cons of Homeschooling | ParentsThe Rise and Fall of Thinking Machines | Inc.The Enlightenment is Dead, Long Live the Entanglement | Journal of Design and ScienceThe Coming Entanglement: Bill Joy and Danny Hillis | Science TalkOut of Control: The New Biology of Machines, Social Systems, & the Economic World by Kevin Kelly | AmazonFostering Long-Term Thinking | The Long Now FoundationThe Big Picture | WIREDWhat is a Neural Network? | IBMThe History of Artificial Intelligence: Complete AI Timeline | TechTargetW. Daniel Hillis: The Evolution of Artificial Intelligence | Web of StoriesHere’s Why We Don’t Understand What Electricity Is | Ribbon FarmPlants of the Gods — Dr. Mark Plotkin on Ayahuasca, Shamanic Knowledge, the Curse and Blessing of Coca, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #508Mantis Shrimp | Great Barrier Reef FoundationArtificial Intelligence Concerns: Is Skynet or The Matrix Possible? | Ontario Society of Professional EngineersDuck And Cover (1951) | Nuclear VaultSmallpox and the Story of Vaccination | Science Museum1950s: Explore a Decade in LGBTQ+ History | Pride & ProgressDanny Hillis: Should We Create a Solar Shade to Cool the Earth? | TED TalkBy 2060 the Total Population of Humans on Earth Will Be Less than It Is Today. | Long BetsStar Trek: The Original Series | Prime VideoSmartphone History: A Complete Timeline | TextlineSeven Ways the Internet Has Changed the World (for Better and for Worse) | Race CommunicationsBabble: A Real “Cone of Silence” | LifehackerThe Jetsons | Prime VideoHerman Miller Babble | The BE CollectionAlzheimer’s Treatments: What’s on the Horizon? | Mayo ClinicTheranos: A Fallen Unicorn | InvestopediaDanny Hillis: Breakthrough Tools for Neuroscience | BrainMind SummitW. Daniel Hillis: Seeing the Future Emerging from Dreams | Web of StoriesW. Daniel Hillis: My ‘Pinch-to-Zoom’ Invention | Web of StoriesPinch-to-Zoom: Apple Versus Samsung | Canadian Intellectual Property BlogWhat Is a Patent in Simple Terms? | InvestopediaOn the 20th Anniversary, An Oral History of the Web’s First Banner Ads | Internet History PodcastDaniel Hillis Inventions, Patents, and Patent Applications | Justia Patents SearchHow Claude Shannon Invented the Future | Quanta MagazineW. Daniel Hillis: Why I Don’t Believe In Cause and Effect | Web of StoriesQuantum Computing: Definition, How It’s Used, and Example | InvestopediaThe Pattern on the Stone by W. Daniel Hillis | AmazonW. Daniel Hillis: Francis Crick and Consciousness | Web of StoriesSomething That Goes Beyond Ourselves | EdgeNeuroscientist David Eagleman — Exploring Consciousness, Sensory Augmentation, The Lazy Susan Method of Extraordinary Productivity, Dreaming, Improving Hearing with a Wristband, Synesthesia, Stretching Time with Novelty, Lessons from Titans of Science, and Much More | The Tim Ferriss Show #674The “Long Tail” of Research Impact Is Engendered by Innovative Dissemination Tools and Meaningful Community Engagement | LSEThe Clock of the Long Now | The Long Now FoundationIndiana Jones and the Last Crusade | Prime VideoSHOW NOTES[07:56] How Danny and Kevin first met through Stewart Brand.[09:58] The funniest person who ever opened Danny’s interview box of unusual objects.[14:01] Danny’s transition to Disney as a Disney Fellow and Vice President of Imagineering.[19:12] The contrast between engineering and artistic approaches to problem-solving.[28:56] The development of parallel computing and founding Thinking Machines.[37:15] The three criteria by which projects are chosen at Applied Invention.[40:36] Zero-trust packet routing (ZPR) and the future of cybersecurity.[46:46] Learning by “hanging out” with experts like Seymour Papert, Marvin Minsky, and Richard Feynman.[59:20] Danny’s work in biotechnology and cancer research with David Agus.[01:07:44] Staying sustainable with systems-oriented thinking in agriculture — as nature intended.[01:16:10] Danny’s superpower.[01:17:48] Homeschooling, education on the move, and the influence of Mrs. Wilner.[01:22:00] The failure of Thinking Machines and other regrets/surprises.[01:26:00] The “Entanglement” that blurs natural and technological boundaries.[01:30:54] The current state of AI versus true intelligence.[01:34:34] How AI may help humanity better understand its place on the intelligence spectrum.[01:39:42] What the future looks like to a short-term pessimist/long-term optimist.[01:50:50] The cone of silence we never heard from again.[01:53:10] Debugging dementia and other diseases.[01:58:05] The MRI alternative Danny’s tackling.[02:00:51] We don’t we have a freezer version of the consumer microwave oven?[02:01:23] Danny’s place in pinch-to-zoom iPhone innovation history.[02:04:51] The pros and cons of patents for inventors and society.[02:08:01] Inventors Danny finds inspiring.[02:10:04] Danny’s cause-and-effect heresy.[02:14:47] Quantum computing and its implications.[02:18:34] The scientific pursuit of understanding consciousness.[02:23:00] The question Danny asks himself before investing time in a project.[02:25:26] Danny’s 10,000-year billboard.[02:29:49] Parting thoughts.MORE DANNY HILLIS QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW“What the inventor does is actually a very small piece of it. What society does is it creates these preconditions for invention. And once those preconditions are in place, then it’s just a matter of putting together the puzzle pieces and making it work.”
— Danny Hillis
“I’ve also developed the ability to search out the people who really know the thing and hang out with them … It’s not that I know things other people don’t, but maybe I know a different combination of things that other people do know and I’m kind of willing to learn the things I don’t know and have a technique of doing it by just hanging out with people who are smarter than I am.”
— Danny Hillis
“Intelligence is a very complicated multifactored thing like life. It’s not just one thing. At the beginnings of AI, we thought the things that were hard for us to do were the intelligence … As it turns out … the hard part was the stuff that we were so good at, we didn’t even notice — like recognizing a face, jumping to a conclusion, having an intuition about something.”
— Danny Hillis
“It’s much harder to imagine solutions to problems than it is to imagine problems.”
— Danny Hillis
“Maybe I’ve kept a superpower that kids have … They’re not afraid to go in and see something new and strange and start playing with it.”
— Danny Hillis
“I try to ask the question, ‘Will this make a difference over how much time and how long will that difference matter?’ If it makes a lot of difference after I’m dead, I’d rather do that.”
— Danny Hillis
“I read enough papers that I have questions, because you’re wasting the time of a Marvin Minsky or a Richard Feynman if you don’t ask them something that makes them think. So I would say most of my learning was from the people, not the papers. But I always do homework beforehand to see where the interesting questions are.”
— Danny Hillis
“Great teachers … see where you are and they stretch you to someplace you can get to.”
— Danny Hillis
“A lot of people’s use of computers is now, they kind of know the magic incantations that cause this library to do that, but they don’t really know all the things that are going on underneath that that make it work. And so it’s becoming more like nature. Nature, we used to kind of know, ‘Well, here’s the magic incantations we use for making beer. We don’t know really why this makes good beer, this makes bad beer, or this makes champagne, but we know when we do this, it does that,’ and that’s kind of becoming our relationship with computers. So I think that what’s happening … the distinction between the natural and the artificial is becoming entangled … it may just kind of go away because there almost is no pure nature and there almost is no pure technology that we fully understand.”
— Danny Hillis
“I have a granddaughter [who] can sit and talk to an electrician as if she knows what electricity is, just by using the right words and saying phrases that she’s heard before and so on. And she can kind of fake it pretty well, but she has no idea what she’s talking about. And that’s mostly where AI is right at this moment.”
— Danny Hillis
“It may be easier to actually make intelligence than to understand intelligence.”
— Danny Hillis
“I think humans, as we know them today, are kind of halfway between monkeys and what we’re going to become. … We’re in this transitional phase. We’ve still got a lot of monkey in us, and I’m really excited by that thing that we’re going to become.”
— Danny Hillis
“In general, I’m a short-term pessimist and a long-term optimist.”
— Danny Hillis
“Much better to be a peasant today than to be a king a couple of centuries ago in terms of your health, food that you ate, how you spend your time … your comfort, everything.”
— Danny Hillis
“I don’t believe in cause and effect.”
— Danny Hillis
“An idea has a lot more sticking power than any physical thing you could build.”
— Danny Hillis
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