INTERVIEW: J. Michael Straczynski
Last Updated on October 14, 2024
Harlan Ellison’s influence on today’s storytelling is profound and far-reaching. Ellison, a figure known for his sometimes controversial and combative but always interesting nature, was a staunch advocate of the idea that stories have the potential to be transformative or ‘dangerous.’ His self-perception, as described in King’s 1981 Danse Macabre, is revealing: ‘My work is foursquare for chaos. I spend my life personally and my work professionally, keeping the soup boiling. Gadfly is what they call you when you are no longer dangerous; I much prefer troublemaker, malcontent, desperado. I see myself as a combination of Zorro and Jiminy Cricket. My stories go out from here and raise hell. From time to time some denigrator or critic with umbrage will say of my work, ‘He only wrote that to shock.’ I smile and nod. Precisely.’
However, Ellison’s influence on today’s literature, specifically grimdark, is significant but often overlooked. Grimdark, in its purest form, is not about violence; it is about characters pushing the boundaries of the situations they are in; it is saying ‘fuck you ‘ to authority and burning bridges behind them because they want to feel warm. Characters have the autonomy to step outside the “hero’s journey” and live in the gray area of humanity. Because honestly, the world is not black and white; it is shades of dangerous gray. As Ellison defined it, this ‘dangerous’ essence reflects his belief in the power of stories. It is a testament to his enduring influence, and this connection made me so excited to interview J. Michael Straczynski.
Straczynski is a great writer, producer, and the creator of the beloved science fiction television series Babylon 5, Jeremiah, and Sense8. All of these shows pushed the boundaries of the human condition. He is also the executor of the estate of Harlan Ellison and took on the monumental task of bringing forth The Last Dangerous Visions, an anthology that has been 50 years in the making. It is the capstone of what some would say is the most influential science fiction anthology collection ever written starting with Dangerous Visions (1967), Again, Dangerous Visions (1972), and now, finally, The Last Dangerous Visions (2024), a long-awaited and highly anticipated culmination of Ellison’s influence on speculative literature. I am honored that he took some time in his busy schedule to chat with me about this monumental task, Ellison’s Legacy, and the future.
[GdM] In the intro to “The Last Dangerous Visions,” you share a compelling story of discovering Ellison’s work and braving dangerous streets and busses to reach used bookstores to find more of it. Could you elaborate on that journey? I know that when finding a new author that speaks to me, I also become obsessed with their work and reading everything they have written.
[JMS] Like every other genre fan, I went through phases with different writers. At a very early age I went through an Edgar Allan Poe stage, where I would read everything he wrote and memorize as much of it as I could, ditto Bradbury, Lovecraft and Asimov. In time each of those obsessions burned themselves out to be replaced by something else. But that never happened with Harlan’s work, I kept coming back to it over and over, and it never felt old, with new aspects presenting themselves that I hadn’t noticed before. This was how I realized that reading Harlan Ellison wasn’t a phase, it was a paradigm shift.
[GdM] Can you explain your perspective, and, by extension, Ellison’s, on what makes a story “dangerous” in speculative fiction?
[JMS] The distinction you draw is correct, in terms of how this relates to speculative or science fiction. There has been a lot of hard-edged, socially challenging writing in other forms and genres. Alan Ginsberg’s Howl, Jack Kerouac’s On the Road, the raw emotionalism of Lawrence Ferlinghetti’s A Coney Island of the Mind, JD Salinger’s Catcher in the Rye…all of them pushed the frontiers of writing, and many of them got banned or ended up in court on obscenity charges. But they kept on writing, because it was necessary to take a stand for literary freedom.
The SF genre was (and to a degree still is) fairly conservative and, seeing what happened to the writers noted above, tended to steer clear of controversy. This persisted up until the time of Harlan’s first Dangerous Visions anthology and the slow birth of New Wave Science Fiction (with writers like Michael Moorcock, Ursula K. Leguin, Samuel R. Delany and others poking at the walls of conservatism) which DV codified from individual efforts into a movement.
What makes a story dangerous in speculative fiction? Anyone who is willing to risk controversy, to speak to the flaws of society, to sexual and political issues even though they might get in trouble as a result. Harlan once wrote that “the chief commodity a writer has to sell is their courage,” and for me, that’s what a dangerous vision is all about: a story that requires a modicum of courage to tell it.
[GdM] What does science fiction mean to you as an author and reader, and what part do you think it plays in society and cultural zeitgeist?
[JMS] At its best, science fiction points to a spot on the horizon that illuminates the human condition and where we may be going, and asks, “Are you really sure you want to continue going in this direction?” It illuminates what Faulkner called “the human heart in conflict with itself.” SF, by definition, is rooted in the effect of change and technology on human beings. (By this logic, Singing in the Rain is a science fiction movie.) We are in a time of rapid technological and social change, and science fiction can be one of the ways we can interrogate and better grasp the changes going on around us. But institutionalized SF, which retreated from the New Wave a while back, is still dragging its feet, leaving the work to be done by upcoming writers willing to talk about racism, misogyny, brutality…but also the great potential of the human heart to overcome adversity and effect positive change.
[GdM] In what ways do you think “Dangerous Visions” influenced and shaped contemporary speculative fiction? Are genres like Grimdark a byproduct of this?
[JMS] Dangerous Visions helped get the ball rolling, but very few of the upcoming writers tackling Grimdark, or Afro-Futurism, or writers in the LGBTQIA community telling their own stories, were/are aware of the first DV anthology. Which is understandable because the book has been out of the public eye for many years, in some cases before they were even born. When I co-created/wrote/produced Sense8 for Netflix, I heard from so many in the queer community who were moved and happy to have a story that dealt respectfully with their lives, interests and concerns. For some creators who emerged from that fandom, Sense8 may have had a more current influence, but now that the DV books are returning to the outside world, that may change.
[GdM] Do you believe we are in a cultural spot where authors can “let it all hang out,” or are we at a place where it is safer for authors to keep their heads down?
[JMS] I don’t think we will ever reach the point where nobody objects to anything. There will always be the outraged, the inflamed, the censorious. If anything, given the massive emphasis on banning books of alleged controversy, especially those that deal in any way with the simple existence of people in the queer community, the stakes and risks have gotten higher. But that makes it even more essential to keep pushing for freedom of speech.
In a strange way, we’ve come full circle to where the first Dangerous Visions was published. In the 50s and 60s books were routinely banned, burned, and censored, and its authors pilloried and persecute. Now, in many ways, after a honeymoon period where this subsided for a bit, we have come full circle, and the banners and burners are flexing their muscles once again. Playing and self-censoring cedes the battlefield to the forces of oppression.
It’s worth noting that when people say “keep your head down” that’s pretty much the exact position you have to assume when you’re about to be guillotined. I’d rather go down fighting.
[GdM] Do short-form science fiction act upon readers differently versus long-form novels? Can novels have the same form of dangerous impact?
[JMS] The difference in length and duration of short stories, in or out of science fiction, means they will invariably have less of an impact on society. They are more the sprint than the marathon, more the rabbit-punch than the boxing match. A short story sets out to make its point, or express a perspective or character moment, then gets the hell off the stage as quickly as possible. Which is why short stories tend to be either all first-acts, or all-third acts. (With each having a bit of the middle in there somewhere.) They begin at the beginning, and end leaving the reader to wonder what will happen next/where will this go, or they begin after the inciting incident has already taken place, and we see the consequences of that event. Consequently, they lack the arc of a novel that can go at length from beginning to end. In a short story, it’s easy to fall into (or be perceived as falling into) the trap of accepted cliché because things have to be shorthanded, but in a novel there’s room to not only explore the character-based implications of the story, but also to insert nuance into social issues or plot developments that allow the author to better avoid the threat of cliché. Novels also get more press, more reviews, and are more readily incorporated into university curricula, which is where they gain traction in society.
[GdM] Bringing “The Last Dangerous Visions” to fruition has been a labor of love and I would assume work and occasional frustration for you. Can you briefly talk about getting “The Last Dangerous Visions” to life with all its moving pieces?
[JMS] It was a significant undertaking to be sure. Knowing that Harlan would’ve wanted this to be finished, so it would not be an albatross hung around his neck by detractors all the way into the afterlife, I felt honor bound to get it done. The process began by reading all of the remaining stories that were still part of the project, parsing out those that had aged out or were too closely tied to their period to the point where they were quaint rather than dangerous, and finding the stories that were still as timely, relevant and important now as when first written. Then all the contracts had to be reissued, tracking down estates and surviving authors to get fresh money into their hands, making a deal with Tim Kirk for his amazing artwork, and then soliciting a small handful of stories from current writers to fill out the bill.
What I found of greatest interest is just how much we are still wrestling today with the same issues that were present when the first batch of LDV stories were written: racism, sexism, fear of technology, fear of the outsider, and the heavy hand of political repression. We’re still having the same arguments. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could finally resolve those things once and for all, and move on to new arguments about new subjects?
[GdM] Collating and publishing a historical juggernaut like “The Last Dangerous Visions” is monumental. What were your first thoughts when starting this project journey?
[JMS] The sure and certain knowledge that I wasn’t going to get much sleep for the next three years.
[GdM] In what ways do you hope the new crop of stories will challenge and engage today’s readers?
[JMS] That may be a little beyond my remit. It’s nearly impossible to predict what will or won’t land in the social zeitgeist. My first hope is that they entertain, because if they fail in that part, the rest doesn’t matter. There are certainly some stories in here, like the piece by Dan Simmons, and the final story by James SA Corey, that will generate a lot of conversation, and I think that’s always a good thing. Change starts by talking about things that weren’t considered polite to discuss previously.
[GdM] Can you share your thoughts on the original artistic contributions to “Dangerous Visions,” particularly the illustrations by Leo and Diane Dillon and their use of woodblock print style and the new contributions of illustrator Tim Kirk to “The Last Dangerous Visions?”
[JMS] Harlan was as much a good art director as he was an editor and writer. One look at his house confirms that. Words go into our brains by one pathway, requiring some degree of analytic thinking; art goes straight in through the emotions and is more immediately reactive. Putting them together increases the impact of the story. The work of the Dillons created a consistent vibe that unified the stories in tone. Tim Kirk’s illustrations do the same, but in much greater detail, and more depth in terms of the expressions of the characters and the worlds in which the stories take place. But both are exemplary.
[GdM] Do you have a favorite story within the “The Last Dangerous Visions” collection, and why?
[JMS] I love all the children equally.
[GdM] You use the term Shibboleth repeatedly in your essay, “Ellison Exogenisis.” Can you expound a bit on what that means to you in the context of Harlan Ellison?
[JMS] A shibboleth is a word, term or sentence used to identify one person or a subgroup from another, like a password or call sign. Harlan identified himself as a writer more than any other part of his personality. It wasn’t just what he did, it’s who he was, on an almost cellular level. And for his fans, myself among them, to know Harlan was to be cool. It put you in a different crowd or subgroup. Shibboleth.
[GdM] Now that the collection is coming out, what exciting projects are coming up for you?
[JMS] We’re in the process of negotiating a follow-up to Harlan Ellisons Greatest Hits, as well as taking steps toward a deluxe edition of that book for down the road, Next up the Harlan and Susan Ellison Foundation will be looking to open Harlan’s house and his papers to academics and fans of his work through personal visits, and to secure Historical and Cultural Landmark status for the house.
As for me…after setting so much of my own work aside to get these four books either republished (the first and second DV volumes) or debuted for the first time (Greatest Hits and TLDV) so that they all come out within a six-month period…an insane amount of work…I’m circling back to my own work for the first time in a very, very long while, and working on my third novel, which I hope to finish by the Spring.
Somewhere in there, I intend to take a nap, and I’m willing to fight anyone who tries to interfere with that goal.
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