12 or 20 (second series) questions with Daniel Goodwin
Daniel Goodwin is the author of twoprevious novels – Sons and Fathers and The Art of Being Lewis – and the award-winning poetry collection Catullus’sSoldiers. His new novel The Great Goldbergs is being published inSeptember 2023. He lives in Ottawa with his wife Kara and their lovely,rambunctious children.
1 - How did your firstbook change your life? How does your most recent work compare to your previous?How does it feel different?
My first book proved that I couldwrite a novel. My new book is, I hope, better, in the sense that it’s deeperand more resonant and more skilled, but it shares some similarities to my firstand second books. All three are set in Montreal, take boys from childhood tomiddle age, and are about male friendship and relationships between fathers andsons. Most of all, like all my novels, the new one is about becoming who youare, or being true to yourself. It feels different in that I’m going in knowingthat the most important part of writing a book is not what comes after it’spublished but the journey that’s come before.
2 - How did you come topoetry first, as opposed to, say, fiction or non-fiction?
I wrote – or dictated – my first poemwhen I was two. I was lying on my mother’s lap, we were somewhere above theAtlantic flying back from a family summer in Greece. I apparently recited apoem I made up and my mother wrote it down. It went like this: “Stars are inthe night / And snow is on top of the buildings / And between the pillars ofParthenon. / And sometimes it comes down in big balls / And lands on theground.” Sometimes I think it’s my best poem! Greece obviously made animpression on me.
Poetry was all around me growing up. Manyof my parents’ friends were writers – mostly poets – or visual artists. Nobody seemsto have heard of him anymore, but Irving Layton was a great uncle who was veryclose friends with his nephew, my father. Poetry felt natural from thebeginning.
3 - How long does it taketo start any particular writing project? Does your writing initially comequickly, or is it a slow process? Do first drafts appear looking close to theirfinal shape, or does your work come out of copious notes?
My writing comes both quickly andslow. It takes months to start. First drafts are very rough. I usually startwith a page or a chapter built around a character in a tough situation. Thenlots of notes. Then writing bits and pieces interspersed with lots of notes. Ittook me a while to be comfortable with the idea that making notes, writing downquestions, writing snippets, reading what I’d written the day or week before,revising, and so on, all qualified as writing. That was a revelation for me.
It takes me a long time to figure outwhat I’m really writing about. I’ve tried being one of those writers who does agreat outline and knows exactly what he or she is setting out to do. But itkills the spark of the thing for me. I also have to rewrite. A lot. If I startthinking about trying to write a perfect or close-to-perfect sentence orparagraph or page the first time around, it’s paralyzing. I have to spit it outas fast as I can type it, not worrying about spelling or grammar or sentencestructure or even always the right word.
Then I go back and revise many times.The whole process for me is like an oyster covering that grain of sand withnacre, the same substance that goes into making its shell, its home and protection,until it has a pearl to show for it.
4 - Where does a poem orwork of fiction usually begin for you? Are you an author of short pieces thatend up combining into a larger project, or are you working on a "book"from the very beginning?
It’s a cliché as most sports analogiesare, but writing a poem for me is like a hundred-yard dash. I sit down andfifteen minutes later I have a first draft. I can put it away and come back toit later and refine it. Writing a novel is like running a series of marathons everyday for three or four years. It’s a brutal, exhausting process. Fun of course,too.
Whenever I write a novel, I know I’mwriting a book. I’ve tried writing short stories but have never had onepublished. I assume because they’re not very good. But my novel writing isnever linear. In the early days, I started a novel and got stuck on a chapterfor months. I just didn’t know what came next. As I began to get better at itand understand myself and my process, I realized I could write novels the waymovies are filmed: out of sequence. Sometimes I’ll write the last line first,or the middle chapter second, or the first line last. And so on. Each day Iwork on what I’m passionate about.
5 - Are public readingspart of or counter to your creative process? Are you the sort of writer whoenjoys doing readings?
I don’t mind public speaking but reallyhate doing readings although I know I should feel more positive about them. ButI feel so self-conscious reading my own stuff. I’ve gotten to the point where Ilike talking about my book and other books in relation to it, about its themes,and even my process or journey as a writer, but I usually stay away fromreading directly from my work. I don’t know why this is. It might have to dowith the fact I think writing and reading is such a solitary, intimate act, itfeels strange to be doing it up in front of a crowd, even if that crowd is justa small group of people.
6 - Do you have anytheoretical concerns behind your writing? What kinds of questions are youtrying to answer with your work? What do you even think the current questionsare?
My poetry is about many things, oftenart, often relationships with my parents, my wife, my children. And the usualclichés: love and death.
In my fiction I am always trying toexplore one theme: how you become yourself. How you resist all the fears andtemptation – money, power, wanting to belong – and how you break free of allyour constraints – your upbringing, your past, your character – to become whoyou are, as Nietzsche says, and pursue your truth. This might not be the mostinteresting question to everyone but it is to me.
7 – What do you see thecurrent role of the writer being in larger culture? Do they even have one? Whatdo you think the role of the writer should be?
I think writing – and reading for thatmatter – are two of the most important and rebellious acts in this culture thatis too occupied with speed, technology, materialism, and everything that istrivial and superficial. Writing, like all real art, plays many roles. It bearswitness. It brings pleasure. But most importantly, art reminds us that humanbeings are not a means to an end – as may organizations and governments wouldhave us believe. We are an end in ourselves.
As our culture moves through a darkperiod, even with all the flashing screens, real writing becomes more importantthan ever before.
8 - Do you find the processof working with an outside editor difficult or essential (or both)?
Always essential, difficult at first,now just essential and pleasurable. I’m very fortunate to have a superb editorin Marc Côté at Cormorant Books. He has taught me a lot. A good editor is likea very skilled reader who knows how to write. You always learn so much aboutyour writing from good readers and editors.
Marc once described the role of theeditor to me as being like a midwife: there at the delivery but not at theconception.
9 - What is the best pieceof advice you've heard (not necessarily given to you directly)?
Hands down, it’s Somerset Maugham’squip: “There are three rules for writing a novel. Unfortunately, no one knowswhat they are.”
This gets at the essentially creative,original, and individualistic nature of art. It also gets at the fact you arealways in undiscovered country. There are no paths to take. You’re literallymaking it up as you go along.
10 - How easy has it beenfor you to move between genres (poetry to fiction)? What do you see as theappeal?
It’s getting harder as I get older.One of the best compliments someone ever paid me was that my fiction was likepoetry and my poetry was like fiction. I started off as a poet and it camenaturally to me. I had to teach myself how to write fiction. But the funnything is, I realized I was more suited to fiction because as I went along, Istarted to become more conscious of what I was doing and so was able to getbetter. Whereas poetry just came. I still have trouble knowing which poems ofmine are good vs. not so good.
Increasingly, I can only write poemsif I’m very moved to. I wrote one about the death of my mother last year. It’sone of my favourite poems. But fortunately (or unfortunately if you’re a poet) youdon’t lose a mother every week. It’s taken me a while, but I have come to theconclusion that the way I can best express myself is in fiction.
11 - What kind of writingroutine do you tend to keep, or do you even have one? How does a typical day(for you) begin?
I wake up, meditate for about tenminutes, then I write. As noted above, writing for me can involve many things.Then I walk, come back home and shower, and go to work. I can only do thereally heavy lifting, the making up of stuff, in the morning when my mind isclear and fresh, and I haven’t become stressed or tired from the day. I almostnever write outside the morning.
12 - When your writinggets stalled, where do you turn or return for (for lack of a better word)inspiration?
I walk. I relax. I read. I try not toworry about it. I remind myself I’ve done it before, I will do it again, thatthis too shall pass.
13 - What fragrancereminds you of home?
Chicken soup reminds me of mychildhood home. The smell of my wife’s skin reminds me of my adult home.
14 - David W. McFaddenonce said that books come from books, but are there any other forms thatinfluence your work, whether nature, music, science or visual art?
I’ve written a few poems describingpaintings. I think they are called ekphrastic poems. I find nature absolutelyessential to my happiness and creative life although I rarely write about it. McFaddenis obviously right in the sense that good books carry echoes of many other goodbooks. But for me, books come less out of books and more out of life.Experience.
15 - What other writers orwritings are important for your work, or simply your life outside of your work?
Mordecai Richler. Kazuo Ishiguro.John le Carré. Churchill. Auden. The Old Testament. Shakespeare. Well-written mysteries.
16 - What would you liketo do that you haven't yet done?
I’m not sure. I’m either very contentor unambitious! I guess I’d like to keep doing more of what I’ve already done.Spending time with my family. Writing. Living. Understanding. Paying homage.
17 - If you could pick anyother occupation to attempt, what would it be? Or, alternately, what do youthink you would have ended up doing had you not been a writer?
I don’t know. I do have anotheroccupation. I think that unless you’re writing unabashedly commercial fiction,you don’t choose to be a writer. You just do it. It’s not a conscious choice.
18 - What made you write,as opposed to doing something else?
I write to understand. Iwant to understand myself and others and the world. I want to pay homage tothat understanding. I can only ever truly understand something by writing aboutit.
19 - What was the lastgreat book you read? What was the last great film?
I recently read Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era, about the US conflict that claimed 600,000lives. I never get tired of reading about Lincoln bringing his moral stature,courage, political instincts, thoughtfulness, and oratory to bear on combattingthe evil of slavery.
As for films, it wasn’t a great filmin the conventional understanding of the term, but I enjoyed The Lost King,the recent feature film about the improbable search by an amateur archaeologistfor the mortal remains of Richard III and the rehabilitation of his eternalreputation. I saw it at the lovely ByTowne Cinema here in Ottawa with my wifeand our two children who are still at home. I think I liked the film so much becausebooks featured so heavily in its story. I like it when books have roles inmovies.
20 - What are youcurrently working on?
My new novel. A very loose updating ofthe Adam and Eve story.
