12 or 20 (second series) questions with Michael Winkler
Michael Winkler is an Australian writer of fiction andnon-fiction. His journalism, short fiction, reviews and essays have been widelypublished and anthologised. His novel Grimmish – described by NobelLaureate JM Coetzee as ‘The strangest book you are likely to read this year’ –was shortlisted for the 2022 Miles Franklin Literary Award. Originallyself-published, Grimmish is now published by Puncher & Wattmann(Australia), Coach House Books (North America), Peninsula Press (UK) and MutatisMutandis (Spain, forthcoming).Winkler wonthe 2016 Calibre Essay Prize for ‘The Great Red Whale’. More: michaelwinkler.com.au
1 - How did your first bookchange your life? How does your most recent work compare to your previous? Howdoes it feel different?
I always wanted to write books,but the books I’ve written have never been satisfying to me. I have written orco-written 10 books for commercial publishers, contributed to others andself-published three. My most recent book Grimmish is the only one I love.
2 - How did you come to fictionfirst, as opposed to, say, poetry or non-fiction?
I’ve written in every form. Imake the point in Grimmish that, while my short fiction is horrible, itisn’t remotely as bad as my poetry. But it’s all the one thing, whatever theform: me trying to tell you what I’m thinking or seeing or feeling.
3 - How long does it take tostart any particular writing project? Does your writing initially come quickly,or is it a slow process? Do first drafts appear looking close to their finalshape, or does your work come out of copious notes?
It embarrasses me, but I make acircus out of my writing. Tear my hair. Rend my clothing. Flop about like atrout on a riverbank. The complete Woe Is Me. I can spend actual years hatingmyself for not getting started. The whole thing is a very slow process, myfirst drafts are lousy, but I have some ability as a redrafter/rewriter.
4 - Where does a work of proseusually begin for you? Are you an author of short pieces that end up combininginto a larger project, or are you working on a "book" from the verybeginning?
It varies. But the first seedfor Grimmish was a story I read as a little kid. The final productincluded years of research, plenty of fragments knitted together, scraps of foundprose, plus a short story I rediscovered that I’d written 20 or more yearsearlier.
5 - Are public readings part ofor counter to your creative process? Are you the sort of writer who enjoys doing readings?
I take in information poorlythrough my ears, so I don’t get much joy from attending readings. It took me afew goes as a reader to realise that if you can provide a bit of a performance,a bit of verve, the audience is grateful.
6 - Do you have any theoreticalconcerns behind your writing? What kinds of questions are you trying to answerwith your work? What do you even think the current questions are?
I don’t have any sort ofacademic background so I am easily baffled by anything that approaches theory.A preoccupation, however, is: what more can novels do to reward the reader?
7 – What do you see the currentrole of the writer being in larger culture? Do they even have one? What do youthink the role of the writer should be?
Don’t think there’s a ‘should.’Writing a book that is fabulously entertaining is a social good, even if itdoesn’t solve the climate crisis or wealth inequality. But the writers who providethe most excitement for me, the ones who are mining and synthesising the worldas it is, are performing (exceeding) the roles of journalist, seer, philosopher,psychosocial analyst. If you want the news that matters, don’t turn on the TVor open the paper – go to a bookshop.
8 - Do you find the process ofworking with an outside editor difficult or essential (or both)?
Tricky question. With pastbooks I’ve worked with editors, and that has always been helpful. However, withGrimmish I knew precisely what I wanted and how far I wanted to push, soI was my own editor (and even my own proofreader, which is why the chapternumbers in the original edition are screwy). Editorial intervention would havecalmed and flattened the book – and thus removed its reason for existence. ButI value editors, and look forward to working with them again in the future.
9 - What is the best piece ofadvice you've heard (not necessarily given to you directly)?
My dad used to say, ‘It’seasier to cut down jungles than irrigate deserts’. I’m not sure if that’s trueeither literally or figuratively but I think of it often.
10 - How easy has it been foryou to move between genres (journalism to short fiction to essays to criticalprose to the novel)? What do you see as the appeal?
I’ve made my living throughwriting for decades, but I haven’t valued many of those jobs or much of thatwork. I wonder if my creative writing would be enhanced if I spent my paidhours doing something completely different. I think corporate writing and evenmainstream journalism can blunt your tools.
11 - What kind of writingroutine do you tend to keep, or do you even have one? How does a typical day(for you) begin?
I have no writing routine. WishI did. I start every day by cursing the alarm clock, taking my pills andstepping out the back door to chat to my vegetables.
12 - When your writing getsstalled, where do you turn or return for (for lack of a better word) inspiration?
I get stalled for years at atime. And then, for no apparent reason, there will be a little dust-storm ofcreativity and I’ll wonder why it took so long and why I made it so hard. Idon’t think it helps with stalling, but certainly reading the writers who youmost admire can fuel your determination to do better, so I am always seekinggreat writing and rereading great writers. I’ve got a dodgy knee so I can’t goon long walks, but I think if I could that might be my answer.
13 - What fragrance reminds youof home?
My wife’s hair.
14 - David W. McFadden oncesaid that books come from books, but are there any other forms that influenceyour work, whether nature, music, science or visual art?
A wonderful question, and yes –everything, really. I have written about finding the clues for how to write Grimmishthrough visual art, in particular the profane, poetic, prodigious mid-careerwork of painter Juan Davila. https://meanjin.com.au/essays/moving-on-u-p-p/
15 - What other writers orwritings are important for your work, or simply your life outside of your work?
I grew up without a televisionin a little country town, so from the earliest age books have been asignificant part of my world. Even though I was passionate about literature, Ididn’t know any writers until Grimmish came out and I was invited tosome festivals and events. I think I expected grudging, competitive alphas –but with a couple of exceptions the writers I’ve met have been thoughtful,funny, good-hearted introverts. These relationships are buoying – as soon as Icomplete these answers I’ll drive a couple of hours up the road for a cuppawith one such writer. As for those whose work has a direct impact on my ownwork, the list is long. Melville is on top.
16 - What would you like to dothat you haven't yet done?
Almost everything.
17 - If you could pick anyother occupation to attempt, what would it be? Or, alternately, what do youthink you would have ended up doing had you not been a writer?
I would have liked to be aclown, or a professional wrestler, or a dancer – some occupation where you useyour body for storytelling and to bring joy. (Or I could steal from Francis Picabia who styled himself variously as funny guy,imbecile, pickpocket, failure, cannibal, silly willy and ‘the only completeartist’.)
18 - What made you write, asopposed to doing something else?
It’s all I can do! Believe me,it’s not the vocation I would have chosen. I would have liked to be a dancer ora singer, then my next choice would be painting or printmaking.
19 - What was the last greatbook you read? What was the last great film?
Book: Hmm. Genuine greatness israre. I read Marilynne Robinson’s Gilead over Christmas, and I thinkit’s truly great. I think For The Good Times by David Keenan which I’vejust finished is almost definitely great, but I need some time to ponder itbefore I can be certain.
Film: I no longer watch movies. I used to care, a lot, to thepoint of self-publishing the phenomenally low-selling (despite a supportivetweet from Rupaul) Fahfangoolah!:The despised and indispensable Welcome to Woop Woop, a book-length defenceof one of the most hated films in our national filmography. For a range ofreasons I no longer have any interest in that artform.
20 - What are you currentlyworking on?
Gluing together the fragmentsof a novel about a man who disengages from the community in a very specificway. Is it going well? Thank you for asking; indeed it is not. Onwards!
