Cal Newport and Tim Ferriss Revisit “The 4-Hour Workweek” (Plus: The Allure and The Void of Remote Work, Unsustainable Behaviors, Burning Out, The Cult of Productivity, and More) (#594)

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Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.

In this episode, past podcast guest Cal Newport interviews me for an article he ended up writing for The New Yorker titled “Revisiting ‘The 4-Hour Workweek’: How Tim Ferriss’s 2007 manifesto anticipated our current moment of professional upheaval.”

Who is Cal? Cal Newport (calnewport.com) is an associate professor of computer science at Georgetown University who previously earned his PhD from MIT. His scholarship focuses on the theory of distributed systems, while his general-audience writing explores intersections of culture and technology.

Cal is the author of seven books, including, most recently, Deep Work, Digital Minimalism, and A World Without Email. He is also a contributing writer for The New Yorker and the host of the Deep Questions podcast.

You can find my interview with Cal at tim.blog/calnewport, and you can find the 2007 talk at SXSW that launched everything at tim.blog/sxsw.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs recruitment platform with 770M+ users, Vuori comfortable and durable performance apparel, and Athletic Greens all-in-one nutritional supplement. More on all three below.

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify[image error]Listen onOvercastCal Newport and Tim Ferriss Revisit “The 4-Hour Workweek” (Plus: The Allure and The Void of Remote Work, Unsustainable Behaviors, Burning Out, The Cult of Productivity, and More) (#594)

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. 

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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

If you’d like to hear the last conversation I had with Cal Newport, lend an ear to our conversation here in which we discussed lightning bolt lessons from Steve Martin, living the deep life, sharpening skills, honing funny bones, fresh thoughts on slow productivity, eschewing the temptations of social media, contemplations on moral frameworks, Cal’s 30-day digital minimalism declutter, and much more.

#568: Cal Newport — The Eternal Pursuit of Craftsmanship, the Deep Life, Slow Productivity, and a 30-Day Digital Minimalism ChallengeSELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODEConnect with Cal Newport:

Website | Blog | YouTube

Revisiting “The 4-Hour Workweek” by Cal Newport | The New YorkerThe Lost Presentation That Launched The 4-Hour Workweek — “Secrets of Doing More with Less in a Digital World” from SXSW 2007 | The Tim Ferriss Show #548The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss | AmazonCal Newport — The Eternal Pursuit of Craftsmanship, the Deep Life, Slow Productivity, and a 30-Day Digital Minimalism Challenge | The Tim Ferriss Show #568The Deep Questions PodcastDeep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World by Cal Newport | AmazonDigital Minimalism: Choosing a Focused Life in a Noisy World by Cal Newport | AmazonA World Without Email: Find Focus and Transform the Way You Work Forever by Cal Newport | AmazonPrinceton UniversityTrueSAN Officially Kicks Bucket | Network ComputingDotcom Bubble | InvestopediaNew Economy | InvestopediaRemote Desktop Software | GoToMyPCList of Animal Tools | The Flintstones Archeology WikiElance | WikipediaEasyGroup | Wikipedia80/20 Rule (Pareto Principle) | InvestopediaLegendary Tech Billionaire’s Iconic Luxury Yacht Is Still an Awe-Inspiring Masterpiece | autoevolutionBuilt to Sell: Creating a Business That Can Thrive Without You by John Warrillow | AmazonBuilt to Sell — Making Your Company Sellable by John Warrillow | The Tim Ferriss BlogSo You’re Being Acqui-hired… | Cooley GOWhatever Happened to Netscape? | EngadgetLiar’s Poker: RIsing Through the Wreckage on Wall Street by Michael Lewis | AmazonCoupa Cafe Customers Can Buy Items with Bitcoins | Palo Alto OnlineThe Future Has Arrived — It’s Just Not Evenly Distributed Yet | Quote InvestigatorThe Holy Grail: How to Outsource the Inbox and Never Check Email Again | The Tim Ferriss BlogWhy Email Is So Stressful, Even Though It’s Not Actually That Time-Consuming | HBRInteractive Archives | SXSWHow the Internet Was Born: From the ARPANET to the Internet | The Conversation43 Folders Series: Inbox Zero | 43 FoldersThe Guy Who Invented Inbox Zero Says We’re All Doing It Wrong | Inc.comThe Best (And Worst?) Autoresponders of 2007 | The Tim Ferriss BlogTim Ferriss Interviewed by Robert Scoble | PodTech 2007PBwiki | WikipediaThe Rise and Fall of Getting Things Done by Cal Newport | The New YorkerThe Scientists: A History of Science Told Through the Lives of Its Greatest Inventors by John Gribbin | AmazonOn Pace and Productivity | Study HacksDon’t Just Do Something; Stand There | Quote InvestigatorThe Psychology of Money: Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed, and Happiness by Morgan Housel | AmazonMorgan Housel — The Psychology of Money, Picking the Right Game, and the $6 Million Janitor | The Tim Ferriss Show #576How I Built The Tim Ferriss Show to 700+ Million Downloads — An Immersive Explanation of All Aspects and Key Decisions (Featuring Chris Hutchins) | The Tim Ferriss Show #538Geographic Arbitrage: How I Save $20000+ A Year Living Abroad | Nomadic FireThe Future of Work After COVID-19 | McKinsey4-Hour Workweek Referenced | The Office S08E03 LottoIt’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia: The 7 Secrets of Awakening the Highly Effective Four-Hour Giant, Today by The Gang | AmazonI Am So Over Productivity Porn | Bitches Get RichesEssentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown | AmazonGetting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity by David Allen | AmazonHyperfocus: How to Be More Productive in a World of Distraction by Chris Bailey | AmazonSHOW NOTESSome of the first cracks in my post-Princeton life that hinted at the unsustainable nature of Silicon Valley workaholic culture and led me toward a realization that The 4-Hour Workweek might be a book worth writing. [07:36]The fatal flaw in my first startup that ensured I wouldn’t be able to easily sell it. [17:22]A snapshot of Silicon Valley in the early 2000s: a prototyping and testing ground for new technologies and a hotbed of hustling. [22:16]Cal says I mentioned email four times in the opening six minutes of my first South by Southwest talk. In retrospect, what bigger problems did this portend, and how was my approach somewhat transgressive, considering the audience? [26:44]Defying the cult of productivity to be more effective than efficient with the 80/20 principle (aka Pareto’s law). [39:43]On slow productivity and playing your own game while understanding the rules by which other people play theirs.[44:33]How the launch of this podcast was, in a sense, a reexamination of what my own game was after working on The 4-Hour Chef turned out to be more a labor of labor than love. [47:57]My mindset going into that first South by Southwest speech in 2007 and how I tried to make the pain points of efficiency relatable rather than presenting them as judgment against my go-getting, startup-hustling audience. [50:41]If prioritizing your own self-care inconveniences other people from time to time, so be it. (To the people pleasers in the audience, please reread that last sentence to yourself a little louder until it sticks.) [53:50]After the South by Southwest speech, what was the general reception like? What points seemed to resonate most with people? [56:44]How a mutual friend put concepts presented in The 4-Hour Workweek to work and changed his own life, how some of those concepts that were radical when the book was published 15 years ago are now considered commonplace, and which concepts I hope continue to gain momentum. [1:00:56]How the COVID-19 pandemic suddenly made the work-disrupting scenarios posited in The 4-Hour Workweek viable alternatives to the status quo rather than intangible, impossible thought experiments, though some challenges remain. [1:06:40]Pop culture references to The 4-Hour Workweek and common misinterpretations of its primary tenets that come from casual skimming and second-hand sources. [1:10:38]Digging deeper, why do so many readers who pick up the bestselling productivity and time management books seem to miss the points they’re really trying to make? [1:15:57]Cal’s optimistic parting thoughts that society is finally catching up with what The 4-Hour Workweek was trying to convey. [1:20:58]PEOPLE MENTIONEDRuth Bader GinsburgHenry A. KissingerEd ZschauJames H. ClarkRamit SethiRay PorterMichael LewisWilliam GibsonRobert ScobleMerlin MannWinston ChurchillPeter DruckerUlysses S. GrantWarren BuffettCharlie MungerMorgan HouselHugh ForrestGreg McKeownDavid AllenFrederick Winslow Taylor