AppEEL webinar #1 - 2021
AppEEL webinar #1 - 2021
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So we had AppEEL webinar #1 of 2021.
It was great!
This post you're reading isn't the Official Page for it.
This is just: my NOTES & whatnot.
(i.e., Velikovsky of Newcastle, or whoever I am)
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Like I said here: StoryAlity - News (allow me to Select, Vary and (re) Transmit a post from my PhD blog's News page), below...
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Attended the first (& fantastic!) AppEEL webinar of 2021. It’s also great stuff! (If you like that kind of thing?) …You should check it out! Thanks to Nathalie & Antonio for making it all happen.
AppEEL Webinar 1 of 2021 on YouTube
Video includes: Intro to AppEEL and its members / * Michael Bradie on Evolutionary Epistemology and a reinterpretation of his EEM/EET distinction / * Anton V. Sukhoverkhov on the BioSystems paper on Non-genetic inheritance: Evolution above the organismal level
And here's some Notes I made/ scribbled during the mtg: (who knows, what they all mean? Not me, always. Some of them may even be totally: wrong. I can't even read my own writing, sometimes.)
VELIKOVSKY'S SCRIBBLED NOTES:
Antonio [our fearless AppEEL Webinar facilitator - thanks Antonio!] (is originally from: Sardinia; now from Vancouver, Canada)
JTV - must remember to ask AppEEL members: What is `A formal list for the Criteria for a Science'? (NB - Never got to ask AppEEL members this, this time round). I have a list in my P3 of EC book, but, I want to know if it's: right :) (My `list of criteria for a Science' is collated from: Creativity in Science (Simonton 2004), & Kuhn, & Lakatos, & Popper, & Chalmers (What Is This Thing Called Science?) & a few others I can't even recall right now)
Olga - Cog Ev Psych
UBC ...(hmm. Not sure what this "UBC" means, here. But it was in my Scribbled Notes, so here it is again. Probably the acronym for a University... Uni of British Columbia? My memory fails me. SPEAK, MEMORY!)
Lorenzo - Italy
Now the talks are beginning:
(1) Mike Bradie, on EEM/EET distinction (eg his famous 1986 paper)
(Bradie, M, 1986) Assessing Evolutionary Epistemology - December 1986- Biology & Philosophy 1(4):401-459 DOI: 10.1007/BF00140962
EEM: (mechanisms!) - our evolved organs: brains, hearts, etc (biology)
EET: (theories) evolution of Scientific Knowledge (culture)
...They are 2 different things!
Descriptive vs Normative (i.e., What is / isn't: Knowledge?)
EET sub K (Knowledge corpus)
EEM sub N (Epistemic Norms!)
Kuhnian perspective: A `Disciplinary Matrix' (aka: `Scientific Paradigm')
Charles Sanders Pierce (pronounced: "purse")
JTV - A Q for Mike: Is Ev Game Theory (Maynard-Smith etc ) an explanation for nonhumanimal Ethics, but humanimal Ethics also have: extra `rules'? ...Or, is it: Different rules?
Mike had a paper on this, in a volume edited by Ray Fry...
Also: Mike has read my 2016 paper! (JTV - Holy cowbells! JTV goes into mild shock)
(2) Anton's talk... re: this paper
BTW the slide above gives me an idea for a diagram I'll make soon
Amadeu - some languages - eg Chinese - are tonal. (Use tones for grammar, not phonemes.)
See the Sober book... (presumably: Elliot - JTV)
...more on EEM/EET
Dewey - influence of Darwinism on Philosophy... Ruse (presumably: Michael), etc...
Boyd & Richerson
Information transfer (information = culture!)
...note, the old (now deeply un-PC) idea of "culture" vs "barbarians" (the idea of more & less "advanced/ progressed" cultures... c.f Comte's `stage models of cultural evolution', etc...)
Nathalie says Popper's `3 Worlds'
(3 - ideas, 2 - mental processes, 1 - exterior-world "products" eg a bridge, a building etc)
...goes way back to: Huxley !!!
(eg ...his `mentifacts / artifacts' etc), ...BUT NOTE: we don't like a lot of Huxley's (eg racist / `intelligentist' eugenics, etc) ideas... So, hmmm. (I suggest: Trust the art, not the artist. Or Trust the Science, not the Scientist...! eg Not everyone [or anyone] has 100% good ideas, all the time. :) ...In fact, most of us have 99% bad ideas. The trick is to have lots, so, if you have 1,000 ideas maybe 10 of em are actually: halfway-decent-ish.
(JTV - NB, on `Curing Cultural Cancer / Fighting Fake News / Binning Bad Ideas', etc!) Some old ideas should be abandon-ded. ...In fact probably ALL old ideas? Unless they're really good. Same goes for: (old) processes & products.
(Evolutionary) Anthropology
THE END
JTV - I think I know what all these Notes I made, mean? Sometimes I write Notes, and don't know what they mean... Wish I'd stop doing that.
So to recap: (JTV wonders) ...WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN...?
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Hey and here's also: the Zoom-chat I saved.
AppEEL Webinar 1 (2021) Zoom chat text –
[minus Velikovsky’s DMs (Direct Messages)]
[Zoom-Chat text, after Mike’s presentation…]
04:33:20 AM From João Pinheiro to Everyone : I have a question. [for Mike]
04:35:22 From Denis Noble to Everyone : I have a question/point. Denis
04:39:27 From Velikovsky of Newcastle to Everyone : I have a Q for Mike. (JT) Is Ev Ethics: Ev Game Theory? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoluti... (& different for human, & non-humanimals)
04:54:27 From Nathalie Gontier to Everyone : i have a question too
04:55:22 From Bhoburg@purdue.edu to Everyone : Look up Peter Godfrey-Smith: Metazoa
04:57:57 From João Pinheiro to Everyone : If I'm allowed a suggestion in line with the current conversation: Andrew Whiten's got a very respectable and optimistic take on cultural evolution in non-human animals for which he wrote a recent literature review: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-ecolsys-110218-025040
[After Anton’s presentation]
05:22:56 From Isabella Sarto-Jackson to Everyone : I have a comment on this idea of reciprocal causality (from phylogeny to ontogeny and vice versa)
05:24:51 From João Pinheiro to Everyone : Two commentaries rather than questions:
This is not really a critique, but I'd like to know what the examples of wild/feral children are, for I thought they were all quite anedoctal.
Retrocausality is not so much a discovery of quantum physics so much as it is a (very disputed) way of interpreting the measurement problem, and I'm not even sure it's analogue at all to what goes on in the "offspring effect", as there is no backward temporal causality.
05:25:19 From Nathalie Gontier to Everyone : it(s a bit like the grandmother theory isn't it
05:25:52 From Isabella Sarto-Jackson to Everyone : Exactly grandmother hypothesis
05:26:07 From Amadeu Viana to Everyone : I have some comments to Anton
05:30:17 From Denis Noble to Everyone : I have similar issue to Joao’s. There is an interesting photographic record on the BBC: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/2... But this is also anecdotal. Has anyone studied this seriously?
05:30:43 From Bhoburg@purdue.edu to Everyone : Isabella reminded me of the “grandmother hypothesis,” which is discussed in great philosophical detail by Kim Sterelny — The Evolved Apprentice (2012). Here’s a more directed article I thought helpful by Hawkes et al. (1998) here: https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/95/...
05:32:30 From Isabella Sarto-Jackson to Everyone : Thanks Bhuburg@purdue.edu(ie Patrick), I was just looking for one of the Hawkes’ papers! Great!
05:32:49 From Natalie Uomini to Everyone : Thanks for the stimulating discussions today! I'm afraid I have to leave for another meeting. See you all next time!
05:33:01 From Nathalie Gontier to Everyone : ye Nat
05:33:04 From Nathalie Gontier to Everyone : bye
05:33:05 From Bhoburg@purdue.edu to Everyone : Thanks Nathalie
05:33:15 From Nathalie Gontier to Everyone : :)
05:34:40 From Nathalie Gontier to Everyone : i have some comments too
05:36:25 From Isabella Sarto-Jackson to Everyone : In fact, there is even a purely biological example of reversed causality from fetus to mother = microchimerism; cells from the baby get into the mother’s organism
05:39:03 From Bhoburg@purdue.edu to Everyone : Dear Anton, is there an article on “retro-causality” you might refer me to, please?
05:39:44 From Matt Fontaine to Everyone : Sorry, I must leave. Thanks for these interesting talks.
05:40:28 From olgavasileva to Everyone : Can I make a comment on recapitulation?
05:41:18 From David Suárez to Everyone : I think distinctions between upward/downward and ordinary/retro-causation are perhaps orthogonal or separate distinctions and it would be important to distinguish them very well. Do you know if someone has discussed this? (Besides Kant) Thanks!
05:41:23 From Amadeu Viana to Everyone : I agree with Nathalie critique to recapitulation...
05:42:51 From Bhoburg@purdue.edu to Everyone : Hi David, I have a list of sources for the issues you mention. I can email you if you wish,
05:43:31 From David Suárez to Everyone : Yes, please david DOT suarez AT ciencias.unam.mx Thank you!
05:43:41 From Bhoburg@purdue.edu to Everyone : Will do
05:45:31 From Isabella Sarto-Jackson to Everyone : Agreed, Haeckel’s hypothesis (recapitulation) has been largely refuted; von Baer’s rules of development are much more probable
05:46:37 From francescobalzan to Everyone : I am also shifting to an other meeting! Many thanks to everyone and special thanks to the fantastic speakers and super organizers Nathalie and Antonio!
05:46:46 From francescobalzan to Everyone : See you soon!
05:49:56 From Denis Noble to Everyone : Great seminar. Learnt a lot. Must also leave soon.
05:50:05 From Selene Arfini to Everyone : I’m sorry I need to go too. Thank you very much for this first meeting and for the fascinating talks! Till next time!
05:52:33 From Velikovsky of Newcastle to Everyone : I took lots of screenshots already :)
(etc...)05:52:50 From Isabella Sarto-Jackson to Everyone : Thanks to everybody. Exciting event! Looking forward to Denis’ and David’s talks in Feb!
05:53:17 From Isabella Sarto-Jackson to Everyone : Cmd + Shift = 4 [to take a group selfie snapshot in Zoom]
05:53:33 From Sarah Otten to Everyone : Thanks everyone. I enjoyed the papers. I have to go.
[Post-presentations Discussion on Zoom chat]
06:11:17 From antonio to Everyone : Hillary Kornblith
06:33:19 From Velikovsky of Newcastle to Everyone : Fyi Patrick: Velikovskys 5 chapters on "memes" (2016-2020) https://storyality.wordpress.com/2020/12/21/storyality170-p3-of-ec-book/
06:35:33 From antonio to Everyone : Another interesting paper that... How to derive "ought " from 'is" . By J.R.Searle
06:50:51 From Velikovsky of Newcastle to Everyone : Patrick - I define `culture' as: "ideas, processes,products". (eg Popper's `3 Worlds' :)
(Except also in `PROCESSES', I include: not just mental processes [eg thinking], but also, outside world processes too. Like: baking a cake, riding a bike, writing a blog-post, etc.)
And so, the Evolutionary Algorithms (eg SVT, BVSR, etc) are: processes...
I can't think of anything in culture that isn't an: idea, &/or process, &/or, product.
(...Can you? If so, my Definition of Culture is: now, broken :) ~JTV
[AppEEL #1 2021 - ZOOM-MTG... ENDS]
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Anyway,
great meeting. I learned a lot. Met lots of great people/scholars. What's not to like?
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Well, that's about all we have time for, folks.
You have been reading / viewing a blog-post by:
Dr J T Velikovsky Ph.D
(aka: Velikovsky of Newcastle)
Information Scientist & Systems Scientist & AI Researcher & Enthusiast & Evolutionary Culturologist & Filmmaker & Writer & Artist & Actor & Muso & Rugged Frontiersman & Random Guy
(and, also The StoryAlity Guy)
aka Humanimal
(or, The Artist formally known as Dr J T Velikovsky)
More stuff:
Transmedia Blog: On Writering
IMDb (Movies, Videogames):
Music: Texas Radio & Zen Stupidity
Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/joeteevee (over 100 videos, some are even: good)
Academia page: https://newcastle-au.academia.edu/JTVelikovsky
Researchgate page: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jt_Velikovsky
My ouvre... etc etc.
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0001-6741-066X
Forthcoming book (November 2021): https://www.igi-global.com/book/principles-protocols-practices-evolutionary-culturology/267379
