Dr. Mark Plotkin on Ethnobotany, Real vs. Fake Shamans, Hallucinogens, and the Dalai Lamas of South America (#469)
Dr. Mark Plotkin with a Waura shaman, Xingu, Brazil“Hallucinogens are vegetal scalpels, and scalpels can heal you and scalpels can hurt you. They are the vegetal or fungal two-edged swords.”
— Dr. Mark Plotkin
Dr. Mark Plotkin (@DocMarkPlotkin) is an ethnobotanist who serves as president of the Amazon Conservation Team, which has partnered with 55 tribes to map and improve management and protection of 80 million acres of ancestral rainforests. Educated at Harvard, Yale, and Tufts, Plotkin has since spent much of the past four decades studying the shamans and healing plants of tropical America from Mexico to Argentina, although much of his work focuses on the rainforests of the northeast Amazon. He is best known to the general public as the author of the book Tales of a Shaman’s Apprentice, one of the most popular books about the rainforest. His new book from Oxford Press is The Amazon: What Everyone Needs to Know.
His upcoming podcast series is titled Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens: Culture, Conservation, History and Healing, and it will be coming out in late October. More information will be available on Mark’s website.
Please enjoy!
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Brought to you by Wondery Plus, Four Sigmatic, and Theragun. More on all three below.
Listen onApple Podcasts[image error]Listen onSpotify
[image error]Listen onOvercast
#469: Dr. Mark Plotkin on Ethnobotany, Real vs. Fake Shamans, Hallucinogens, and the Dalai Lamas of South America
https://rss.art19.com/episodes/53ff9b3d-96ca-40bb-b3c8-58d34ccb1936.mp3Download
This episode is brought to you by Wondery Plus! People always ask me what podcasts I listen to, and the truth is… I don’t listen to many, given all the projects I’m working on. One exception is Business Wars from the podcast network Wondery. One great way to listen to it is with a Wondery Plus membership, which allows you to enjoy Business Wars one week before the episodes are available anywhere else and ad free.
Check out Wondery Plus today with this exclusive offer for listeners of this podcast: get 25% off a one-year membership at WonderyPlus.com/Tim .
This podcast is brought to you by Four Sigmatic and their delicious mushroom coffee, featuring lion’s mane and Chaga. It tastes like coffee, but there are only 40 milligrams of caffeine, so it has less than half of what you would find in a regular cup of coffee. I do not get any jitters, acid reflux, or any type of stomach burn. It’s organic and keto friendly, plus every single batch is third-party lab tested.
You can try it right now by going to FourSigmatic.com/Tim and using the code TIM. You will receive up to 39% off on the lion’s mane coffee bundle. Simply visit FourSigmatic.com/Tim. If you are in the experimental mindset, I do not think you’ll be disappointed.
This episode is brought to you by Theragun! Theragun is my go-to solution for recovery and restoration. It’s a famous, handheld percussive therapy device that releases your deepest muscle tension. I own two Theraguns, and my girlfriend and I use them every day after workouts and before bed. The all-new Gen 4 Theragun has a proprietary brushless motor that’s surprisingly quiet. It’s easy to use and about as quiet as an electric toothbrush.
Go to Theragun.com/TIM right now and get your Gen 4 Theragun today, starting at only $199.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
Want to hear another episode with someone seeking to understand humanity’s relationship with the natural world’s unknown variables? Listen to my conversation with Paul Stamets, an intellectual and industry leader in the habitat, medicinal use, and production of fungi.
#340: Paul Stamets — How Mushrooms Can Save You and (Perhaps) the Worldhttps://rss.art19.com/episodes/a347d207-3697-4540-a7fd-5f5344067421.mp3Download
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with Dr. Mark Plotkin:
Website | Amazon Conservation Team | Twitter | Facebook
Tales of a Shaman’s Apprentice: An Ethnobotanist Searches for New Medicines in the Amazon Rain Forest by Mark J. PlotkinThe Amazon: What Everyone Needs to Know by Mark J. PlotkinThe Amazonian Travels of Richard Evans Schultes | The Amazon Conservation TeamThese 100-Year-Old Glass Flowers Are So Accurate, They Rival the Real Thing | ArtsyThe World’s Largest Psychedelic Research Center | The Tim Ferriss Show #385What Is Ayahuasca? Experience, Benefits, and Side Effects | HealthlineMedical Benefits of Magic Mushrooms | HealthlinePlants of the Gods: Their Sacred, Healing, and Hallucinogenic Powers by Richard Evans Schultes, Albert Hofmann, and Christian RätschEthnobotany: A Living Science for Alleviating Human Suffering | Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative MedicineThe Lost Amazon: The Pioneering Expeditions of Richard Evans Schultes by Wade Davis and Richard Evans SchultesThe Yucuna Indians (or Yukuna) | Laurent FontaineFrench Guiana, South America | Lonely PlanetSong of Myself, 51 by Walt Whitman | Academy of American PoetsIndiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark | Prime VideoMedicine Man | Prime VideoUse of Curanderismo in a Public Health Care System | JAMA Internal MedicinePeople in the Amazon Rainforest | Mongabay | The New York TimesMark Plotkin: What the People of the Amazon Know That You Don’t | TED 2014Ayurveda: A Brief Introduction and Guide | The Ayurvedic InstituteThe Iconic Electric Eel Is Actually Three Species | The AtlanticAmazon Tragedy Repeats Itself as Brazil Rainforest Goes Up in Smoke | The GuardianAmazon River Dolphin | Whale and Dolphin ConservationPink River Dolphins Of The Amazon Rainforest’s Hunting Secret | BBC EarthThe International Ecotourism SocietyWhat Is Yopo? | Zamnesia BlogThe Yanomami: An Isolated Yet Imperiled Amazon Tribe | The Washington PostPaint It, Black by The Rolling StonesA Forgotten Adventure With a Telepathic Tribe | National GeographicMatsés | WikipediaThis Amazonian Tree Frog’s Poison Has Become Part of the Latest Supercleanse Trend | ABC NewsTapirs | National GeographicThe Use of the Genus Virola as a Hallucinogen In South America | Ethnobotanical LeafletsAnadenanthera Colubrina | WikipediaBurning ManShamanism | WikipediaAyahuasca: Shamanism Shared Across Cultures | Cultural SurvivalMichael Pollan — Exploring The New Science of Psychedelics | The Tim Ferriss Show #313Michael Pollan — Exploring the Frontiers of Psychedelics | The Tim Ferriss Show #365How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence by Michael PollanCanadian Lynched in Peru After Being Accused of Shaman’s Death | The GuardianSurvey of Subjective “God Encounter Experiences” | Roland Griffiths, PLOS OneChiric Sanango | Gastro ObscuraDraculin, Stroke Drug from Vampire Bats, Moves Closer to Circulation | Discover MagazineWorld Wildlife FundFrom Snake Venom to Ace Inhibitor — The Discovery and Rise of Captopril | The Pharmaceutical JournalThe Flying Death and Other Adventures in Anesthesia | Brought to LightSouth America’s Inca Civilization Was Better at Skull Surgery than Civil War Doctors | ScienceShaman and Apprentice Program | GlobalGivingIndians Are Key to Rainforest Conservation Efforts Says Renowned Ethnobotanist | MongabayACT Raises $35,000 for The Trio Indian Shaman’s Encyclopedia | Amazon Conservation TeamACT President Dr. Mark Plotkin Speaks with Members of the Trio Tribe in Suriname | ACT United States7 Proven Health Benefits of Brazil Nuts | HealthlineCOVID-19 Fears Grow for Indigenous South Americans as Yanomami Teen Tests Positive | The GuardianMaroon Communities in the Americas | Slavery and RemembranceRoots: The Complete Miniseries | Prime VideoTop 10 Rainforest Aphrodisiacs | ListverseHow I Discovered Viagra | Cosmos MagazineLandmark Agreement Between Samoa and UC Berkeley Could Help Search for Aids Cure | UC Berkeley NewsEnsuring Equitable Benefits: The Falealupo Covenant and the Isolation of Anti-Viral Drug Prostratin from a Samoan Medicinal Plant | Pharmaceutical BiologyJaguar Health: Plant-Based Prescription MedicinesA Novel Extract SB-300 from the Stem Bark Latex of Croton Lechleri Inhibits CTFR-Mediated Chloride Secretion in Human Colonic Epithelial Cells | Journal of EthnopharmacologyAkurio People | WikipediaCoronavirus and Conservation: Preventing the Next Pandemic | Mark Plotkin, Los Angeles Review of BooksHow a West African Shaman Helped My Schizophrenic Son in a Way Western Medicine Couldn’t | The Washington PostWhat Colombia’s Kogi People Can Teach Us About the Environment | The GuardianBellavista No More: Peru’s Infamous Wildlife Market Reduced to Rubble | Mongabay‘Wet Markets’ Launched the Coronavirus. Here’s What You Need to Know. | National GeographicKumbaya: History of an Old Song | Folklife TodayList of Viral Hemorrhagic Fevers (VHFs) | CDCSkoll FoundationUnited Nations Conference on Environment and Development (Earth Summit) | BritannicaGeorge Bush, Sr. at Rio Earth Summit | C-SPAN.orgCuban Leader Fidel Castro Speech at Rio Environmental Conference | Educational Video GroupJacques Cousteau Criticizes Nations for Ignoring Environmental Dangers | UPIForging a New, Bipartisan Environmental Movement | Newt Gingrich and Terry L. Maple, Issues in Science and TechnologyMazatec Perspectives on the Globalization of Psilocybin Mushrooms | ChacrunaShipibo-Konibo Indigenous Culture | PeruNorth.com6 Modern Societies Where Women Rule | Mental FlossXingu Peoples | WikipediaWayana | Indigenous Peoples in BrazilThe Wai Wai Tribe | Guyana Then And NowEvidence of Yanomami ‘Violence’ Relies on False Data, New Paper Reveals | Survival InternationalBlack Lives Matter
SHOW NOTES
Note from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.
Who is Richard Evans Schultes, how does his story cross paths with Mark’s, and what is ethnobotany?When and how did Mark’s interest in ethnobotany begin? When was the moment he knew he was hooked?What was the next step for Mark in making a career out of this interest?In what way was Schultes a “trickster” in the shamanic tradition, and was he the template for Indiana Jones?There are between three- to five-hundred indigenous cultures in the Amazon, with an equally diverse array of healing traditions. Here’s how a shaman in the northeastern part of the Amazon cured Mark’s foot pain instantly when no one else could.What does Mark see as the “holes” in Western medicine’s understanding?On electric eels, pink dolphins, fires in the Amazon, and an urgency to protect the unknown before we destroy it forever — whether or not it has practical applications.Ayahuasca may get all the hype, but it’s only used by a small percentage of shamans in the Amazon. Mark talks about hallucinogenic frogs used for hunting magic and a psychedelic snuff called yopo.Mark considers yopo his favorite Amazonian hallucinogen, but how does it compare to ayahuasca?To Mark, what qualifies someone as a “shaman?”What has compelled Mark’s 87 experiences with ayahuasca? What’s to be learned beyond the first few times of trying it?What are the risks of doing ayahuasca and other Amazon-derived hallucinogens? Aren’t they all natural and harmless?That time Mark got bitten by a vampire bat and bled like a stuck pig thanks to an anticoagulant in its saliva called — no kidding — draculin.How the Amazon Conservation Team’s Shaman’s Apprentice clinics aim to preserve knowledge of obscure compounds (and their sources) when traditions are eclipsed by the temptations of the outside world for younger people among indigenous populations.How Mark and his team have used technology to help the indigenous people of the Amazon protect their land, resources, health, and culture rather than entice them away from them.What Mark did to illustrate for the chief of a tribe the importance of keeping a written record of their collective knowledge for future generations, and why he insists on leaving it untranslated from their native language.When Western expertise insisted that there was no such thing as a male aphrodisiac, but shamans in the Amazon knew otherwise.Do indigenous tribes ever profit from introducing their knowledge of preciously guarded compounds to the outside world?Mark details two common failures in sustainable development, and one success story.Is there anything in Mark’s experience in the Amazon that might help prevent future pandemics? What do the people who live there and in other remote areas know that we in the West haven’t seemed to wrap our heads around?What official policies would Mark like to see put in place to protect the world’s remaining wildlife, natural resources, and indigenous people?Does Mark see the Amazon rainforest as a glass that’s half-empty, or half-full?As a boundary walker who’s been good at finding common ground between disparate causes, what does Mark see as the way toward bipartisan support for the Amazon Conservation Team’s mission?How common are matriarchal societies and female shaman among the Amazon’s indigenous people?Among tribes with which Mark has spent time, how often are hallucinogens used specifically for hunting and/or warfare?How can those of us in the West who benefit from compounds derived from the Amazon ensure they’re sourced responsibly and not being outright stolen from the people who live there without any type of reciprocation? How can we help people who don’t necessarily benefit from just having a bunch of money thrown at their problems?Mark shares the story of how a shaman healed one of his old wounds 13 years ago with no recurrence — where Western physicians had only failed before.Parting thoughts.
PEOPLE MENTIONED
Richard Evans SchultesTim PlowmanWade DavisAlan GinsburgE.O. WilsonAlbert HofmannChristian RätschLouis PasteurWalt WhitmanIndiana JonesSean ConneryCarl LinnaeusAlessandro VoltaNapoleon ChagnonLoren McIntyrePeter GormanMalcolm XTarzanJimmy CarterDon LaureanoJean-Claude Van DammeMichael PollanRoland GriffithsPaul CoxSteven KingDalai LamaCoyoteRavenJeff SkollTeddy RooseveltRichard NixonGeorge H.W. BushFidel Castro
